Michael Burbidge

Michael Burbidge

Well Known Member
I'm looking at a midtime TSMO engine. It looks like a solid engine and was overhauled by a very reputable engine shop two years ago. The only drawback is that it has about 4500 hours TT.

Should I be concerned about that number of hours? Do engines typically have a limited life in terms of number of overhauls?

Thanks,
Michael-
 
My engine has been overhauled twice since I owned it and once before I purchased it. There is over 5,700 hour on it and it is still going strong.

An engine can be overhauled as many times as new replacement or new spec replacement parts can be obtained.

IMHO, an overhaul should be overhauled or rebuilt to NEW specs if you want the engine to last to manufacturer's TBO.
 
It's most likely like my grandfather's axe. The axe was handed down to my father and then on to me. It has only had six handles and five heads but still works as well as the day he purchased it :)
 
I read somewhere that the life of cylinders was about 4-5000 hours and the fatigue life of the crank and rods was somewhere like 8-10K hours. The case after 2-3 TBO cycles gets milled to limits and wont pass anymore.
 
Questions

How long has it been since this engine was airborne?Any logs?Prop strikes? How many times has it been overhauled? once or twice. If it sits too long the carbon gets hard and the valves stick. What about the carb&mags? Lots of questions here,we need more info. 4500TT by itself is not a deal breaker,Price is always a factor.
 
No limit

There is no limit to the number of hours or number of overhauls on an engine. I would recommend that during any overhaul everything should meet limits for new parts and new (not overhauled) cylinders should be installed. If this is done (standard practice at better shops) the engine should go to TBO every time. Of course with successive overhauls it will become necessary to replace various parts in order to meet the new part limits and eventually you could have replaced every part in the engine with a sufficient number of overhauls. The grandfathers axe analogy would apply at this point. For the engine in question I would not be concerned about the total time but would be concerned about the quality of the most recent overhaul and how the engine was used/stored during subsequent years.

Good luck
Russ
 
More on the engine...

The engine was last overhauled in 2009 by Triad Aviation. Since then it has flown regularly for a total of about 1000 hours. I have full logs. No problems, no leaks sine the overhaul. Last flew a few weeks ago. Regular oil changes. The only red flag I can see in the logs is that a crack was repaired in the case by Divco at last overhaul.
 
Yep

An old-timer A&P/IA once told me that he'd rather have an engine that has gone through at least one cycle, since it is now "seasoned"...all the molecules are aligned and if it hasn't cracked the case by now, it probably wouldn't.

....said he'd rather have that than a new (unkown) case :)

Best,
 
Look over the case real close

I'd look at the case real close to make sure no cracks existed. It wasn't until I sent my case out for service on my rebuild that I got the wonderful news that the case had cracks and was unserviceable. Which I incurred an additional expense I hadn't planned on or desired. The core I bought had numberous rebuilds on it which I wasn't aware of and I was under educated on what questions to ask before I purchased it. Looks like you are trying to ask the right questions and do the right thing. I bought mine off an ad in Barnstormers from a shop in Florida some years back. Live and Learn
 
Who overhauled it?

One wild card is if has ever been thru Lycomings overhaul shop, they throw away a lot of parts, cylinders always, and you might have a newer engine than you think.
You might pull a cylinder and have a look inside, especially look at the Cam followers.
You didn't mention price but I believe you can still buy a box 'o parts for less than $18K from ECI or Superior. If your price for the mid time engine is even half that and you can afford it, it go with the box 'o parts instead.
I bought a mid time Lyc reman engine planning to run it out. I knew it had not been pickled and had cyl. corrosion above the pistons, but figured a top over haul would be cheap enough. After I bought it and it stared at me for 2 years haunting me I finally resolved to split it apart and do an inspection so I knew what I had. Long story short I ended up at 18k for a completely rebuilt engine, all yellow tags, new cyls etc, done right, but at the same cost as a new box 'o parts.
If you dont get it inspected internally, or know the history of the engine personally, I'd insist on core value prices.
A lot of people have been bit on engine deals, beware.
Tim
 
Michael Burbidge said:
The engine was last overhauled in 2009 by Triad Aviation. Since then it has flown regularly for a total of about 1000 hours. I have full logs. No problems, no leaks sine the overhaul. Last flew a few weeks ago. Regular oil changes. The only red flag I can see in the logs is that a crack was repaired in the case by Divco at last overhaul.
Click to expand...

Mike,
I would consider that a red flag, as well. General rule of thumb is that crankcase fatigue problems [cracks] go up after 6,000 hours. Next overhaul may need a new set of cases [$$$] Surfacing and line boring a fatigued case will not cure the metal fatigue.
Charlie
 
Latest price?

tim2542 said:
....You didn't mention price but I believe you can still buy a box 'o parts for less than $18K from ECI or Superior. ....
Tim
Click to expand...

I believe the box-of-parts cost went up when AERO stopped selling ECI parts.

Does anyone have the latest price?

When I check a few years ago most of the other ECI dealers were engine builders and want to sell you the box-of-parts assembled into an engine...:)
 
az_gila said:
I believe the box-of-parts cost went up when AERO stopped selling ECI parts.

Does anyone have the latest price?

When I check a few years ago most of the other ECI dealers were engine builders and want to sell you the box-of-parts assembled into an engine...:)
Click to expand...

I'm going through this right now actually. IO360 box of parts, Superior with ECI nickel cylinders.... about 18k or 17.4k with superior cylinders....no injection or pump with either of those kits. Box of parts, all ECI...20,500 ish injection and pump included. Superior IO360 box of parts including all accessories is $22.5k with $600 ECI nickel cylinder as an option.

I called ECI yesterday with your same frustration. I'm not interested in paying an ECI shop $8k to assemble a motor for me. Those I had spoken to wouldn't even consider letting me help assemble the engine. I could watch if I want to....no thanks. ECI gave me a few of their suppliers who would sell me a box of parts.

J&J - Texas - numbers above are from James
America's - Oklahoma
Phil's - Ohio
Aviation Engines - AL


Hope that helps. I have not decided yet by any means and any thoughts from others are certainly appreciated. It's a lot of money to spend...but my arms get really tired if I try to fly without an engine. If you have an ECI shop build it, your warranty goes from 1 to 3 years apparently...but they were quoting me 28k+ without all the accessories and for that kind of savings I'll warranty my own work.
 
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Box o' parts

If this is for a angle valve engine those are bad prices, IMO.
You could get an A&P to assemble it for you, I would guess maybe 8-10 hours labor. 8k is a lot for an extra 2 years of warrenty.
Tim
 
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