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prkaye

Well Known Member
I know, I know... I post too much on here ;)

I'm curious to know how many hours people are typically taking to finish their RV. For anyone who has finished a slow build kit with matched-holes, straight-forward Lyc installation and no major mods... how many hours did your build take (not including time spent cleaning the shop, daydreaming, thinking, etc).

Has a poll already been taken on this?
 
Well, that's a very wide question because what some consider build time, others don't. I just read two new first flight announcements on the mothership's homepage today from guys that took 4,400+ hours to build a -9A and over 4,000 to build a -7. What is included in that time is not given, but I would guess it's a little more than just touching parts. It seems like the average is around 2,000 or so for a slow build. I've read that there have been some completed in about a thousand hours.

Too hard to tell just what the "real' average time is. :confused:
 
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prkaye said:
I know, I know... I post too much on here ;)
Has a poll already been taken on this?
Click to expand...

lots of info is already here. I find that searching the forums, google, and a few selected (and bookmarked) builders sites usually answer my questions.

example? try 'engine core' on google. 3 answers on page 1.

good luck!
 
FWIW, 30 months for a non-matched hole (but with prepunched skins), slowbuild RV-8, day/night VFR O-360/Sensenich ready to fly without paint. Have no idea how many hours and I think you have to come to an understanding of just what hours constitute "build time". What about laying there before you doze off at night mentally planning the next day's shop time? How about the time spent educating yourself at Bob's Aeroelectric Connection site and planning your panel? I consider this constructive, focused time spent towards the completion of the project, but it doesn't happen anywhere near the work shop. Oh, and I consider "daydreaming" to be absolutely essential. Without a dream, you'd never be doing this in the first place. It's time well spent!

So, I just noted when I put the first parts together in the tail kit, then again the day of first flight. Worked out to 2.5 yrs. Took it to the painter a few months later so I guess it wasn't really "finished" before I flew it the first time... :rolleyes:

Total hours just doesn't mean all that much in the grand scheme of things. It will fly when you're done, and not a moment sooner. Then, you discover that you'll NEVER be done and will always be tinkering with stuff. What you think is the perfect engine/prop/panel setup may turn out not to be after you fly it for a while. I recenly pulled the entire vacuum system and gyros out of my plane to install a Dynon D-10A. Such gadgets didn't exist back in '98 when planning my panel! I might even totally redo the panel someday. I'm the manufacturer. I can do this. :D

For most people with jobs, family and a life outside the work shop, 2-5 years is probably par for the course. There must be a survey here somewhere...

Cheers,
 
Hours? How about months (or years)?

As Chad said, hours are counted differently by different folks. Working alone or with other helpers? Do you count man hours, or the group working all day as 8 hours? Also, how many hours a month put in on the project will vary a lot - some have all the time in the world, others might be lucky to get in 10 hours.
Also, experience and foresight make a big difference. Mistakes and time spent to correct them takes its toll. Making "improvements" or going with an alternative engine? Many hours...
Myself, I figure 5 years total. Even if it takes more, I'm sure I'll be done before I retire, which will be just fine.
 
prkaye said:
I know, I know... I post too much on here ;)

I'm curious to know how many hours people are typically taking to finish their RV. For anyone who has finished a slow build kit with matched-holes, straight-forward Lyc installation and no major mods... how many hours did your build take (not including time spent cleaning the shop, daydreaming, thinking, etc).

Has a poll already been taken on this?
Click to expand...

This question gets asked all the time and there's plenty about it in the archives. However the bottom line is that people may be building the same model RV....but not everyone is building the same plane (if you catch my drift).

I have found the difference in quality of construction between RVs to be really enormous. This is to be expected. Some people love learning, they're patient by nature and they have an innate desire to pursue excellence. Others just want to throw the plane together and start flying.

So the hours it takes to build an RV is meaningless unless you examine the quality of the plane. Only one thing is for sure....the better ones take longer to build than the quickies. It was always the case and forever will it remain so.
 
I expect to finish my RV-9A in a total of four years at the rate I'm going now. I would expect to have around 2500 hours of build time at the end. This is only a guess as this is my first RV.

If I had it to do again I would have bought a quick build even if I had to borrow some of the money. I miss too much family time with the wife , kids and grand kids. I enjoy the building process but life is short and sometimes feel I am missing things that are more important. Man, I don't know what started all that rambling but now it's off my chest so thanks for listening.
 
18 months, 1800 hours. Slow build RV9A, Lycoming, Day Night VFR, No Paint, Basic interior. Only me working on it, other than help to rivet the wing skins and fuse turtledeck. However Your mileage may vary. My schedule was 1 day on the weekend for 10-12 hours and 4 nights a week, 8pm - 12am... steady for 18 months.
 
This is a good question but with no real answer

One thing I have noticed it the time it takes to build an RV really hasn't changed much as the kits have gotten better.

I suspect that the limit of builder endurance is around 2400 hours. Back when you had to measure, punch, drill, deburr, and dimple EVERY hole, AND had to make jigs, etc. the planes were much simpler. FP, O-320 powered, Day VFR type of planes. Now that so much work is done for the builder the planes seem to be more complex, thus any time saved building the basic structure is lost in adding complex systems like auto pilots, constant speed props, instruments, fancy interiors, etc.

Just my observation.

FWIW, I'm over 2200 hours and expect it will take me another 200 to 400 to finish my -9 slow build. Part of the reason is I have elected to go with an O-290 which requires some modifications to the standard install and I've elected to fabricate and install a throttle quadrant with an Affordable Panels panel and some other mods. Every change, no matter how trivial it may seem, adds time.
 
The time varies so much

Somewhere along the building process I quit counting the time. There were a lot of people that were a lot more speedy than me, and some that will probably never finish. The same will be true for you so just take it all in stride and enjoy the process. The tail kit builds fairly fast and I've heard of people finishing them in a couple of weeks. In reality the average builder will not go quite that fast and in a lot of cases cash flow can be a motivator to pace ourselves. Here are a few numbers that stand out in my mind though for times on my 9a. Again, as a first time builder I didn't hesitate to call the factory or look at others progress on the net. Gary Newsted was about a month ahead of me and his site was helpful all the way through as was Andy Karmy's. Sometimes a nice photo clears up questions on the prints Van's puts out.

Wings- 400 hours including the tanks which took 100 hours almost to the minute.

Fuse- 425 hours to the point that it was sitting on it's wheels with the motor mount installed and the empenage installed, seat backs in and the floors in. This is around the time I quit counting the hours and looking back I'd say it was about 1/2 way finished.

The item that surprised me the most was the engine baffling. One time I took a month off of work to finish the plane because it was very close to flying and then I worked every day for 30 days straight. These were long hours of at least 10 hours with 14 hours not being unusual. When I got to the baffling it was like progress just stopped and I just couldn't get any traction to get going again. 6 days were spent fitting the stupid things and this took so much time that finishing the plane that month was impossible. With steady work the plane flew about 13 months later! Seriously, I misjudged finishing this dramatically!!! The experienced builders told me not to set deadlines, or goals because it adds pressure and sets you up for a let down if you don't meet them. It will simply be done when it is done.

Two quotes I used to bounce around my brain when spending those countless hours in the garage to help keep things in perspective were:

From Rosie: "Perseverance, more important than building skills, is required to finish this airplane."

John Harmon: "Building an airplane is like eating an elephant. If you look at the whole thing at once you'll be overwhelmed, but if you just take one bite at a time eventually you will finish." He likes this line and smiles proudly when sharing it. I gotta say, I like it too.

Best,
 
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4000+ hours

My RV-8 is one of the early kits, #240. Skins were punched but not match-hole. I live on the Texas gulf coast and it is very humid here. I prepped and primed every piece before assembly. It was a LOT of work. Not sure it was worth it. I also built my plane at the airport, in a hanger. I had a lot of visitors that ate up time. I tried to adjust the time I wrote down in my builders log to account for non-work time but don't know how accurate I was. I did all the work myself, only had help when I couldn't reach both sides. VFR panel with vacuum gyros. IO-360C which had to be modified to forward facing throttle body. C/S prop. Cleaveland seat cushions.

I spent 4000+ hours over 6.5 years. I was single and spent all my time at the airport working on my dream. I don't regret any of it and would do it again (if I was still single).
 
install a throttle quadrant
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This is also something I would like to do. Does this require major changes that require many hours?

So why does installing baffling take so long?? Is there a way to speed this up (i.e. if you use Vans Firewall Forward kit does this make the baffling a lot easier?)
 
prkaye said:
This is also something I would like to do. Does this require major changes that require many hours?

So why does installing baffling take so long?? Is there a way to speed this up (i.e. if you use Vans Firewall Forward kit does this make the baffling a lot easier?)
Click to expand...
Phil,

This is easy to do. Search this forum and you will find a number of hits. Also, the process is detailed on the Instrument Panel page of my web site.

Dayton Murdock who is building a -4 and posts on this list makes the quadrants and they are TOP notch.

As for the baffling, I've just started on mine and don't have the full experience of the installation. So far it kind of seems like fiberglass work. It is intimidating at first but once you get through it, you wonder what all the fuss was about. Also, the baffling kit as delivered in the FWF kit is a "one size fits all" affair and it is up to you to make it fit with your engine, prop, and cowling. Apparently, no two are alike.

I think this is Van's way of putting the "mental" in experimental.
 
Thanks Bill. I like the way you installed that throttle quadrant... looks like a very clean and simple method, and the quadrant is roughly in the same location as the plunger would be, so I imagine this simplifies hookup?

I was thinking of a whole center-console arrangement, primarily for the reason that I like to rest my hand comfortably on the throttle while on approach and during take-off, and don't like having to reach or lean forward for it. The center console would obviously add weight... i wonder how much added complexity to route the throttle connection down to the quadrant on the center console?

How much of a "reach" is it in your setup for the throttle quadrant?
 
prkaye said:
I was thinking of a whole center-console arrangement, primarily for the reason that I like to rest my hand comfortably on the throttle while on approach and during take-off, and don't like having to reach or lean forward for it. The center console would obviously add weight... i wonder how much added complexity to route the throttle connection down to the quadrant on the center console?

How much of a "reach" is it in your setup for the throttle quadrant?
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Before installing a center console, sit in one. They can take up a good amount of room. There is an aftermarket center console available on this web site, I just couldn't find it. The pictures looked great.

As for adding complexity, I don't think that will be the case as the cables just run forward rather than up and forward. The question I would have is where are you going to put your carb heat? (Assuming carbureted engine here) I like having mine next to the throttle so I can push it in and hold it in at the same time I go to full power. In my set up, you can also toggle the flaps up w/o moving your hand.

As for the "reach" question, I really don't know. My seats were dropped off at the upholstery shop on Monday and I have never sat in the plane with anything under me other than a thin backpackers foam mattress, say an 1" of padding. From what I can tell, it shouldn't be an issue.

As for the position of the quadrant, it is centered in the panel. This worked out great as the levers are just to the left of the radio stack, no interference what so ever.

BTW, I have to give credit where credit is due. Roberta H. has a quadrant in her RV-7A and some time back she posted a picture of her panel and it looked so good I just had to do the same.
 
The question I would have is where are you going to put your carb heat?
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I'm used to the Katana, in which the throttle and prop are on a narrow center console towards the front, and the carb heat is at the bottom center of the main instrument panel, just above where the center console meets the instrument panel. You need to control throttle and carb heat in two seperate actions, but I'm accustomed to it that way.
 
Concentrating

prkaye said:
This is also something I would like to do. Does this require major changes that require many hours?

So why does installing baffling take so long?? Is there a way to speed this up (i.e. if you use Vans Firewall Forward kit does this make the baffling a lot easier?)
Click to expand...


Phil, when I was working on my empennage (slow build RV7A) I too wanted to know about everything ahead of me....how to do the canopy...how to do the baffles....the best alternator to instal...etc etc.

In the end I found that it was better to research the tasks as I actually approached them. Otherwise you tend to forget everything over the years before you actually get to the task. Getting ahead of yourself can also be distracting and wasteful of time. It can also make all the the myriad complex tasks ahead seem daunting. And quite often the technology has changed by the time you get there.

If you're building a slow build then by the time you get to actually installing a throttle quadrant it will probably be fly-by-wire technology....and if you're building at the same rate as me it will probably be throttle control by telepathic thought process.

As the man said....one bite of the elephant at a time.
 
Captain Avgas said:
This question gets asked all the time and there's plenty about it in the archives. However the bottom line is that people may be building the same model RV....but not everyone is building the same plane (if you catch my drift).

I have found the difference in quality of construction between RVs to be really enormous. This is to be expected. Some people love learning, they're patient by nature and they have an innate desire to pursue excellence. Others just want to throw the plane together and start flying.

So the hours it takes to build an RV is meaningless unless you examine the quality of the plane. Only one thing is for sure....the better ones take longer to build than the quickies. It was always the case and forever will it remain so.
Click to expand...
Quick question on the 'Archives'. I try the 'SEARCH' feature everytime before I post, and rarely, if ever, do I get any hits that relate. I know it's a boolean search, but for instance; I found this thread looking for "vans, firewall forward, kit". Of which, I got nothing back on the firewall forward kit from van's.

Suggestions?
 
Gsuit said:
Quick question on the 'Archives'. I try the 'SEARCH' feature everytime before I post, and rarely, if ever, do I get any hits that relate. I know it's a boolean search, but for instance; I found this thread looking for "vans, firewall forward, kit". Of which, I got nothing back on the firewall forward kit from van's.

Suggestions?
Click to expand...

Try the Matronics Archive Search Engine (It's better) at:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html

Try searching on FWF kit. I'm sure you'll get lots of hits.
 
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