have a garmin 430w or 530w

  • yes

    Votes: 60 60.0%

  • no

    Votes: 40 40.0%
  • Total voters
    100
  • Poll closed .
Not interested...

Just a gadget creating another potential "point of failure."

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
This type of innovation is one of the reasons we've seen valuable products come to market of which many are now accepted as "essential". I bet the GPS was considered a gadget by some in the early stages of it's life cycle. Even though it may not be appropriate for the primary mission of every RV or sport airplane out there, I like the idea and fully support people designing new ways to help pilots be more efficient. ...and the experimental category is helping this every year.

I have to admit, if I wasn't just flying for pancakes on the weekend and had to deal with amended clearances every day I would want one!

Very cool idea!

- Peter
 
Last edited:
At $3000 a pop I will stay with inputting by hand.

Given the amount of dogs that seem to get shipped around in RV's, I wonder if anyone has tried to teach the pooch some co-pilot tasks?
 
Old joke...

islandmonkey said:
At $3000 a pop I will stay with inputting by hand.

Given the amount of dogs that seem to get shipped around in RV's, I wonder if anyone has tried to teach the pooch some co-pilot tasks?
Click to expand...

There is an old cockpit automation joke about this subject:

Q: What is the ideal cockpit crew?
A: A pilot and a dog...the pilot is there to feed the dog, and the dog is there to bite the pilot in case he tries to touch anything.

(rim shot!)

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
I must admit, after initially reading the posts, I tended to agree with most of the "what the heck would I need that for?" type responses. However, after watching the marketing video, I am not so sure. I have a dual Chelton setup on the left and a 430W to give me a legal WAAS nav radio. I have been planning, filing, and flying quite a few IFR flights recently in an effort to remain current. I love the fact that I can put in victor airways in the Chelton and detest the ridiculous process to put in a victor airway flight plan in the 430W. However, the best answer is for Garmin to get their act together and include victor airways in their units. Since that is unlikely to happen (at least without a mega $ upgrade), this little gadget might be pretty attractive to someone that was flying a lot of IFR and getting carpal tunnel syndrome with 430/530 entries. I'll bet that VoiceFlight is not an inexpensive unit either. Ooops, I just saw $3000 mentioned in the last post. Maybe the experimental version would be more reasonably priced.:rolleyes:

$.02 worth
 
Last edited:
I fly behind a 430W right now (not in an RV) and wouldn't want to fly without it now. Keep in mind, I'm an IFR pilot who flies cross country.

If I were just going out for grease burger and milkshake, I'd probably just stick to the (3,4,6)96's.

But in my -10, we'll definitely have a minimum of one 430W. Maybe two.

If times are good, I might even trade one of them up to a 530W.

But they're a cross country IFR pilot's dream.
 
I'm happy entering them manually. I fly a 430W very often and am very comfortable with the menu system. Yes, it does take just a little while to enter all the waypoints, but not all that long for me. In fact, I load my flight plan in the GPS before I even leave the ground, so in reality I'm only modifying a waypoint here or there along the route per ATC instructions. Not a big deal. Certainly not worth $1K let alone 3K.
 
I'm not knocking the 430W's performance at all. It works great and I consider it a necessity for serious IFR in my airplane. I am just saying that the flight plan entering process is antiquated. Reminds me of some of the old VLF/Omega units I used to fly many decades ago. Anybody remember the old Global Navigation System GNS-500? (not a Garmin product) Once you have seen how flight plans go into a Garmin GNS-480 or a Chelton, you will know what I mean. I wonder why Garmin axed the 480. That is a great unit. Maybe it was too much competition for some of their newer offerings?
Another pet peeve with Garmin is the fact that my Nav and Obstruction database update service for the Cheltons cost $175 per year. The Garmin, however, is $465 per year for Nav only. Add obstruction updates to the Garmin and it costs even more!:eek:
 
Last edited:
Having said all the things I previously mentioned about not being able to live without a 430/530, I wouldn't be interested in adding the voice recognition box to my airplane

1) I probably couldn't tell you how to spell 80% of the waypoints that are included in a clearance. I'd be flipping paper left and right trying to find the right waypoint spellings. It's easier to get close and let Garmin's auto-complete feature guide you through to the way point.

2) It's waaaay too expensive. But even at $500, I wouldn't put it in the airplane because it's just not worth the space, weight, installation trouble, and it's just something else to maintain.

3) On the other hand I'd pay for a 6" x 6" keypad for entry, so I don't have to twist knobs as often. Not $3,000 - but something reasonable.
 
Too much $$$ for me!

I would opt for a keypad entry as well.
In practice, I seldom enter the entire route in the 430. I enter enough to get me to the first long leg, then I will enter the remainder while on autopilot in cruise flight. Most of the time ATC will have ammended my route before I get this far, usually to clear me direct to destination.

(I once heard a pilot refuse "direct to destination" saying, "It took me so long to enter all this routing. I want to fly the route!") :eek:
 
Yep, keypad or roller/trac ball control of a cursor is how it works in the high end units. That would be the best way to go, but real estate and cost issues would have to be dealt with there as well.
I am skeptical about the ability of voice recognition to work well in a noisy cockpit environment. I just think about the times I try to use voice recognition software when attempting to tell directory assistance the name of a city or a business on the phone. :mad: Doesn't always work so great.
 
Last edited:
Think about where this technology could lead:

Voice: Start engine
VFS: Engine start confirm
Voice: Engine run-up and controls check
VFS: Engine run-up complete, controls check complete
Voice: Depart RW 36, climb and maintain 3000'
Voice: Activate EA 2010 Patty Wagstaff Extreme aerobatics (Also usable in Wii and PS2)
VFS: Fasten seat belt and hang on!

You get the picture.
 
Last edited:
HAL

Somehow, I am reminded of this exchange from "2001 a Space Odyessy" between Dave Bowman and HAL, the computer. :eek:

Dave Bowman: Hello, HAL. Do you read me, HAL?
HAL: Affirmative, Dave. I read you.
Dave Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Dave Bowman: What's the problem?
HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
Dave Bowman: What are you talking about, HAL?
HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
Dave Bowman: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL.
HAL: I know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.
Dave Bowman: Where the ****'d you get that idea, HAL?
HAL: Dave, although you took very thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.
Dave Bowman: Alright, HAL. I'll go in through the emergency airlock.
HAL: Without your space helmet, Dave, you're going to find that rather difficult.
Dave Bowman: HAL, I won't argue with you anymore. Open the doors.
HAL: Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
The first time I put an IFR flight plan into a 480, I loved it. You enter it just like the clearance is given. Departure airport, arrival airport, DP, route, STAR. It won't let you enter something in incorrectly.

TODR
 
:) I?m very impressed. As I see it this is the GNS?s biggest flaw?.and it?s a significant one. So I wish these guys luck...and think there?s a market there. However, this is Garmin?s problem to fix, no? I?d expect to see an integrated voice solution from Garmin in the coming years?particularly considering the array of other Garmin products and technology. Maybe VFS hopes to license this technology to Garmin. The skepticism is prudent?but I agree with folks saying once technology is refined and proven and used correctly it improves safety.

Danny
 
dmaib said:
I must admit, after initially reading the posts, I tended to agree with most of the "what the heck would I need that for?" type responses. However, after watching the marketing video, I am not so sure. I have a dual Chelton setup on the left and a 430W to give me a legal WAAS nav radio. I have been planning, filing, and flying quite a few IFR flights recently in an effort to remain current. I love the fact that I can put in victor airways in the Chelton and detest the ridiculous process to put in a victor airway flight plan in the 430W. However, the best answer is for Garmin to get their act together and include victor airways in their units. Since that is unlikely to happen (at least without a mega $ upgrade), this little gadget might be pretty attractive to someone that was flying a lot of IFR and getting carpal tunnel syndrome with 430/530 entries. I'll bet that VoiceFlight is not an inexpensive unit either. Ooops, I just saw $3000 mentioned in the last post. Maybe the experimental version would be more reasonably priced.:rolleyes:

$.02 worth
Click to expand...


Just from an ATC perspective, if you're /G, why in the WORLD are you still flying Victor routes?
 
Echo Tango said:
Just from an ATC perspective, if you're /G, why in the WORLD are you still flying Victor routes?
Click to expand...

I usually file and fly GPS direct routes. But, depending on where you are going, it is not unusual for ATC to assign a route that includes some Victor airways. It is much easier to insert "V3" than it is to insert several intersections and VOR's that define the part of V3 that ATC has decided they want you to track, while trundling along at 160 kts..
 
dmaib said:
I usually file and fly GPS direct routes. But, depending on where you are going, it is not unusual for ATC to assign a route that includes some Victor airways. It is much easier to insert "V3" than it is to insert several intersections and VOR's that define the part of V3 that ATC has decided they want you to track, while trundling along at 160 kts..
Click to expand...

Interesting. Could be some preferential routing you're getting (though there are usually advanced RNAV routes for just this occasion), or one of the old-school controllers that won't change, but I've never assigned a V-route to a GA pilot, who hadn't already filed one (which requires me to stand up, turn on the light and find the darn thing :D). Granted, I'm still pretty new at this and our airspace is NOT busy.

Also, you would figure flight computers/GPS units would have the same capabilities as the ancient ATC computers (think commodore 64). When filing route amendments for pilots we simply input the starting fix (where the amendment starts) and the route as follows: i.e.,
ORD.V100.XXX..XXX.PAITN1.DTW

One dot between dissimilar items, like fixes and "routes (not points in space)", and two between similar items (two points in space or two V-routes). Done!

Sorry, long post, I was just curious. Don't hesitate to pipe up and ask for Direct if you're not going through some Bravo ;)
Sure as heck makes my job easier!
 
Last edited:
I suspect it?s the computer switching to preferential routing. Coming from KLUK to KOSU, I filed direct, but the clearance I was given was Vxx to CVG to Vxx to APE to KOSU. I thought this was bizarre, since CVG is south of KLUK and sits right in the middle of the Class B airspace. I wouldn?t have thought they would route anyone anywhere near KCVG at 3k. In reality, I got vectors north to Vxx, then direct OSU. It did take me about 10 minutes to look up all the waypoints and enter them in the 430.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.