Dayton Murdock

Well Known Member
Hi All
Last weekend I flew down to see Axel's project. With smooth air and a good hour to get there I thought it was a good time to see what my cruise speed is.

9500" WOT 2650 rpm's 183kts 9.2gph going there
10500' WOT 2600 rpm's 172kts 8.9gph coming back 4hrs later
All with a O320

How fast is your -4? :D
 
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Speed

I only have about 10 hours on mine so far, but I'm seeing 194 MPH (TAS) without any problems, and that's without gear leg or wheel fairings. I've seen groundspeeds as high as 224 MPH.

I'm hoping to pick up 14-15 MPH when it's all "faired up" which will put me at 208-209 MPH. Maybe a few more if I really let it sit and stabilize WOT. I'm also getting about 2,150 to 2,200 FPM climb at 110 MPH, which is pretty good for a fixed pitch prop.

What a great plane!

Rick
 
Dayton, I must find out sometime.

But I have a related question. When people talk about top speed they are clearly talking max IAS. But is this normally achieved low down where you have the highest manifold pressure, or high up where the IAS and TAS diverge, but the power drops?

Dayton, did you have the wind effect knocked out of those numbers, or are they off the ASI?

Rick are you a 320 or 360?

I did fly triangles way back and reckoned after the computation at about 8000 I was getting around 201 flat out, which is about 4mph less than VANS claim for 160hp, but I never understand what height they use. Perhaps I will re do it when the spring comes. It was 14F here last night at ground level which is a bit parky for the UK!
 
IAS

Hi Steve
I had 4 kts of tailwind going down, It was pretty calm Saturday on the back side of the Sierra's
IAS was 160kts, temp 42deg F, alt setting 30.34 TAS 185kts
Coming back the number were about the same with an headwind
I wonder how close our ASI system are? :eek:
 
How fast is your -4? :D

Dayton,
Glad you came by the house again. To answer you question. At this point my -4 goes as fast as I can push it and will be exactly 1 knot faster than yours every time :D Joking aside, I am very interested in the data collected by this thread.
 
I see pretty much these same numbers in my 4 when I run at 2600 rpm. I have a IO-320 with one mag and one electronic ignition. Though my normal cruise rpm is around 2500.
 
Interesting

Guys

While this is all very interesting...... especially as my 4 is near completion why don't you all start using the same yardstick. Agree to flights at 8000ft, 2500 RPM ( as the Sensenich is limited to 2600), and quote true airspeeds. Then we can se how fast they really are.

Then give details on the engine/prop/ignition set up. Also whether the have the old style alum gear leg fairings and pants or the newer ones.This will help people to decide on engine prop combinations.

I have built mine with a modified cowl and sealed plenum so I would expect mine to be a bit faster than one with the old typefairings which mine has. But it would be interesting to find out if I have actually gained anything for all the hours doing glass work on the cowl.
 
My -4 has consistantly matched Van's stated numbers for all performance measures. 160 Hp O-320-D1A, would like to go faster be haven't spent the time and effort to find the speed.

Glenn Wilkinson
 
Just for Fun

Guys

While this is all very interesting...... especially as my 4 is near completion why don't you all start using the same yardstick. Agree to flights at 8000ft, 2500 RPM ( as the Sensenich is limited to 2600), and quote true airspeeds. Then we can se how fast they really are.

Then give details on the engine/prop/ignition set up. Also whether the have the old style alum gear leg fairings and pants or the newer ones.This will help people to decide on engine prop combinations.

I have built mine with a modified cowl and sealed plenum so I would expect mine to be a bit faster than one with the old typefairings which mine has. But it would be interesting to find out if I have actually gained anything for all the hours doing glass work on the cowl.

I just want to have some fun and not be to Technical about it.:D
 
Meaningless

Hi Dayton

Well have fun, and thanks for the design of the gascolator mount, it helped a lot.

WAM
 
If you are interested in how fast your RV4 (or any aircraft for that matter) is, then come on out to one of the SARL races next year. Talk about fun!
 
Steve . . .

I have an O-360 with an E Mag/P Mag combo with a Sensenich prop. The 194 TAS (MPH) seems to pan out from 4500-9500 feet. Of course my indicated airspeed is going down as I climb higher, but I always like to keep track of the true airspeed when I'm cruising.

I'll look to see what kind of indicated speeds I'm getting next time I go up.

Rick
 
Dayton, I must find out sometime.

But I have a related question. When people talk about top speed they are clearly talking max IAS. But is this normally achieved low down where you have the highest manifold pressure, or high up where the IAS and TAS diverge, but the power drops?

For a normally aspirated airplane, the fastest speed (TAS) is at sea level.
 
FP vs CS

For a normally aspirated airplane, the fastest speed (TAS) is at sea level.

I imagine that is true for a CS prop, but for FP, not necessarily. A FP prop pitched for cruise may need the thinner air and consequently lower drag for max rpm even though that's at a lower power setting.
 
Why?

I imagine that is true for a CS prop, but for FP, not necessarily. A FP prop pitched for cruise may need the thinner air and consequently lower drag for max rpm even though that's at a lower power setting.

There are minor effects due to prop efficiency changes with altitude and TAS, but by and large, no, power drops off faster than drag, so normally-aspirated airplanes go faster at sea level.
 
Comments Only

If you go to www.sportairrace.org and scroll down the page there are links to the results of all races in the years 2007, 2008 and 2009. In most cases the aircraft type is identified and the RV-4s flying in the RV Red class have 320 cu. in. engines and the RV-4s flying in the RV Blue class have 360 cu. in. engines. Race courses are often triangular and the total length is usually between 100 and 150 miles (the AirVenture Cup race is different - 400 to 500 miles). Cam Benton and Chris Murphy fly RV-4s in the RV Red class and in a quick scan I usually saw their speeds a little over 200 mph with the turns and vertical changes included.

Chris Murphy has organized two straight line time trial/speed dash events at Courtland, Alabama which used sighting devices and timers to determine speeds. These were well run and well received but there is some question of accuracy because the test method is prone to known errors. He has taken it on himself to develop a more accurate method on a private individual's resources (his). He is currently working on an IR sensor approach to start and stop the "watch" and improve the accuracy. He is giving a lot of thought, work and his own money to this effort and I'm sure he will have it debugged and ready for the race this year at Courtland on October 30 (see Calendar of Events at www.sportairrace.org). He is also working with Eric Whyte, who runs the AirVenture Cup race, to possibly have it included as Saturday event at Mitchell, South Dakota the day before the race to Oshkosh. If you come to these events you could make a two way run and get a certified speed for your RV-4.

As far as independent testing is concerned you should always use the same method if you are trying to gain more speed with modifications or changes in propellers/engines or compare with other RV-4s. I always test in three GPS tracks (360, 120 and 240), at 6,000 feet density altitude (because the old U.S. Air Race handicap procedure that I started testing with specified 6,000 ft d alt), with wide open throttle, maximum RPM (2720-2730), leaned to 1300F EGT cylinder #4, with auto pilot holding track and altitude, recording 5 consecutive GPS ground speeds on each track that do not vary by more than 1 kt, average the five speeds for each track and plug them into the national Test Pilot School spreadsheet provided in this forum by Kevin Horton and John Huft. This mathematically eliminates the effect of wind and provides the true airspeed for the test. This is very reliable and it is essential for evaluating small mods that produce small differences in speed.

On almost every test I see a manifold pressure of 24.5" but in races at lower altitude the number increases by 3 or more inches and the indicated airspeed is higher than in my 6,000 ft tests.

Before I started modifying my airplane the speed was very close to the number provided by Van's.

Bob Axsom
 
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TVAR II speed dash

I am at Courtland today with the IR sensor and a new sighting device for testing this afternoon. We will be timing a C-172... woo hoo.

At TVAR II speed dash the speeds came in very fast. I was not satisfied with the performance of the stop watch operators who were different than the first dash. One thing to consider too is that the altimeter setting that day was 30.12 in hg and the temp was 53 degrees F. Add the gusty winds and that adds up to some variabilty.

How much faster would an airplane be at -600feet sea level density alt. than at say, 2000 feet density altitude? I know the speed I was clocked at was pretty darn close because it matched my GPS ground speed average.

I want to get the human factor out of the timing if at all possible.

Chris M RACE34
 
30 hr TT on Lyc 0-360 A1A with carb & mags, and Hartzell CS

All fairings installed except wheel pant to gear leg intersection fairings, flap trailing edge to fuselage, bottom of HS to fuselage. 2 pc wheel and 1 pc gear leg fairings are Sam James

IAS and TAS are mph taken off the GRT Sport and I?ve not checked their accuracy yet. For the first data set below the MAP sensor calibration settings had not been entered into the GRT yet so MAP may have been off. For the 2nd data set below, the MAP calibration was done. Both flights were solo.

Top speed:
1500 msl, 600 agl
OAT 64F
MAP 27.9 (wide open throttle)
RPM 2670
Mixture full rich
IAS 208
TAS 217
GPS GS: N222, W212, S198, E212, AVG 211 (yes I know that?s not the best way)


Cruise:
10,000 msl
OAT 14F
WOT MAP 20.9
RPM 2520
71% power
Mixture leaned
IAS 183
TAS 209
GPS GS 278
 
TAS

I see you posted a TAS of 217 (Knots or Stat MPH?) Did you read that on your efis? I doubt it is correct to have a 9 Knot difference in your indicated airspeed and TAS at 1500 msl. I suspect an error somehere. Your average 4way is 211???

I have done alot of speed testing and have found that my Dynon D10a does not give accurate TAS readings. It is always too fast.

Chris M RACE34
 
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Cold air makes a big difference

Around 195 mph solo in the winter. Maybe 188 at gross in the summer.
The Sensenich prop limit of 2600 RPM hurts on top speed. 160 HP.
Summer brings a big difference in short field performance too.
The hot, humid days we get in the south must cost 5 to 10 HP.
 
I see you posted a TAS of 217 (Knots or Stat MPH?) Did you read that on your efis? I doubt it is correct to have a 9 Knot difference in your indicated airspeed and TAS at 1500 msl. I suspect an error somehere. Your average 4way is 211???

I have done alot of speed testing and have found that my Dynon D10a does not give accurate TAS readings. It is always too fast.

Chris M RACE34

Yes the avg 4 way GPS was 211 but it's not knots, it's mph. Yes both IAS and TAS are taken off the EFIS. Note my statement:

"IAS and TAS are mph taken off the GRT Sport and I’ve not checked their accuracy yet."

If we assume the IAS is accurate (I don't), using the 2% per 1000 ft rule, at 208 mph IAS at 1500' the TAS would be 214. My EFIS shows TAS 217.

At 183 mph IAS at 10,000' the TAS would be 220. My EFIS shows TAS 209. (There is a photo of this panel in-flight on my RV4 web page below)

There is a TAS calibration feature in the GRT and I did that. I have not checked IAS accuracy and there is not a way to calibrate the GRT IAS anyway, but I have noted that it agrees almost exactly with the mechanical ASI.
 
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