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60Bubba

Member
So I'm looking forward to getting back to SoCal and bribing my way into an RV for a ride, but until then I have a general sort of question. I am a 1000+ hour pilot, so some might say I have a pretty good experience base. Trouble is, about 850 of those hours have been in airplanes with wings that spin around my head. Good practice for comms, navigation, and headwork, but not necessarily too helpful for fixed wing stick and rudder skills.

I'm planning to buy or build early next year, and I'm wondering how difficult to fly these things really are. I keep reading how slippery they are, and how it's easy to get behind them. I've recently gotten refresher training in Pipers and Cessnas, but those don't really compare.

Does anyone here have any T-34C experience? I'm wondering how the RV-6/7/8 would compare. I got about 95 hours in the Tormentor in Navy Primary flight training, so I figure that is probably my best frame of reference. If I remember, we flew patterns about 100KIAS, and full flap landings were 85KIAS. I believe this landing speed is higher than the RV's??

I'm leaning toward a taildragger, so obviously that will require some specialized training, but overall I'm just wondering how pattern work will compare to my turbine T-34 time. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Case
 
Case,

I'm a fellow Navy helo bubba, just came from T-34 land down in Corpus as an IP and I have an RV-7 with roughly 800hrs on it, so I can answer your question.

When I started flying the -7, I had a couple thousand hours, but like you, most of that was navy helo time. However, I had no trouble transitioning to the -7. I got the transition training from Alex Dedominicis in his RV-6 and 1.5hrs with him in my -7, and then that was it. Very easy plane to fly and land. I initially took it easy with respect to crosswinds, but as I built experience and confidence, I flew in increasing crosswinds. The -7's rudder is so big that I feel most crosswinds are a non event. Just fly the plane.

As for the comparision with the T-34C, I think the 34 is a little easier than the RV. The -34 being built like a truck was more forgiving of bad landings, especially with the oleo struts. Control wise, the -34 is much heavier, RV's are very light on the controls. Speed range down low is about the same. My -7 will indicate 180kts wide open on the deck. The -34 will indicate between 190-200 kts on the deck. At altitude my 7 can still true at 180kts, but the T-34 will true 220 or even higher. Of course the -34 Vne is 280kts and the -7 is only 200kts.

If you want my opinion, go for it. I recommend either the -7 or -8.
 
Tobin,

Couldn't have ordered up a more pertinent reply. Thanks for taking the time to answer. I spent most of 2010 on a GSA in Qatar, and somehow the civilian flying bug set in when I got back. Maybe I caught something in the desert.

I've been looking at all kinds of aircraft, from Bonanzas to Glasairs, but I keep coming back to the RVs. My wife isn't interested in looking at the back of my head, so I'm thinking an RV-7 is going to fit the bill. As of now, I think I'll buy one flying to see what I like or don't like, then either update the panel and interior in a few years, or start from scratch with a new build. Hope Norfolk treats you well. (and yes Mike, I am definitely looking forward to 10 gal per hour vice the 135 gal/hour my 60B drinks!)

Case
 
The RV is way easier to fly than the Turbowiener. All the constant trim inputs on the wiener were a result of having way more power/torque than the original design was made to handle. If you had no problem flying that POS an RV is going to be a breeze. Speeds are comparable as was mentioned, but a little slower in the pattern. Operating cost is going to be a little better in the RV though. Plus you don't have to worry about ripping the wings off at 4 G's. Although flying 60's you may start going grey in the break!
 
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No T-34 experience, but plenty of helicopter experience. You have nothing to worry about with the taildragger. Helo guys are pretty adept at using their feet to keep the nose pointed the right way!:D
 
Case,

My 64 hours in a T-34C were a couple (ahem) years ago, but you'll have no problem. Some thoughts:

Speeds are somewhat similar, maybe a bit slower in an RV (not much)... but RVs fly a great Navy pattern...it will come naturally to you.

Wing loading and weight make the 34 ride perhaps a little smoother in bumps, but the RV is more responsive to control inputs. Fun ride!

Acro is not too dissimilar...again, the more stable ride in the 34 makes things easy and smooth, but RV acro is straight forward, as the airplane has great control harmony...doesn't take excessive rudder finesse like some planes do...very fun ride!

TW will come to ya, just get some good transition training, and you'll wonder what the fuss was about. TW or NG...both fun rides!

The hum of a PT-6 is smoother than the sound of a Lyc (but a little noise is a good thing! ;)).

Overall, your Mentor time will cross over well, and you'll be sporting a "grin" in no time. I also say Go 4 It!!

Have fun!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Bubba,

I have no T-34 time, and only 18 minutes at the controls of a Jetranger, but I do know lots of current and ex-military pilots, so my opinion: As a trained military pilot, you will have ZERO difficulty staying ahead of any RV (or Rocket, for that matter). As a helicopter pilot, you should also have ZERO trouble with any taildragger RV. Where you (may) have some trouble is in an area I see over and over with the "pure" military pilots - that is in the area of managing a piston engine properly. Compared to the "set it and forget it" operation of a turbine (speaking as a military trained jet engine technician), the three handed juggling of levers/knobs on a piston engine are going to require some re-training. Leaning on the ground, LOP, proper warm up, shock cooling, on the fly trouble shooting, hot starts, etc... all are much different than you may be used to.

If you are an old hand at piston engines, then please disregard.
 
pierre smith said:
.....until you have to fork over the price of a good, used RV for a gearbox overhaul:eek:

Best,
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Couldn't agree more Pierre! A PT-6 is a great engine to fly behind...when someone else is footing the bill...for operational costs...and espcially for maintenance costs! Can you say "time limited parts" or "cycle limited parts"? One hot section later, and you've paid for an RV...just like you said!!

Michael makes a good point about engine management, but a little study, that good transition training, and reading some about it here and other good forums (including Deakins articles) will help much. I figure if one can manage all those moving parts in a helo, this will fall into place well!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Right Bob... Didn't mean to imply pistons are "difficult", but it's just an area that the military does not train for.

As an aside, I suspect that the difficulties encountered with the Air Force and their T-3 Firefly may have been related in some way to the proper care and feeding of a high performance piston engine. I was working at Edwards when they scrapped all those airframes and parts. Broke my heart to see the destruction of all those new in the crate AEIO-540's and MT props!
 
P35 Bonanza

Simaler to a T34....
I owned a 1963 P35 Bonanza for 800+flight hours prior to building my RV6. I do not recomend this but I taught my self to fly my RV6 by taxing up and down the runway. After a few times with the tail up I figured it was not hard and no big deal. It wasen't. I went for it, a first flight on the airframe. Now I fly a RV8 and still like both the RV7 and RV8. Wish I had a 7 for Carol , she is a pilot too.
 
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Well, all these responses inspire me to start looking into TW training as soon as I get back to San Diego. I've been thinking I needed to add an endorsement, maybe this will be the one. 2 Questions:

1. Anyone know any good TW instructors around SD?

2. If I have any options, are there any TW platforms that stand out as good to learn on, or are similar to the handling qualities of an RV-6/7/8?

Thanks again for the encouragement.

Case
 
Go to Van's site and find one of the transition IP's. Rather than spend the money on both a tailwheel endorsement and tranistion training later, you can knock them all out at the same time. Of course with that SD BAH maybe money isn't an issue!
 
Of course with that SD BAH maybe money isn't an issue!
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Riiiight. I bought a house in SD in April of 2006. The amount I'm upside down on my mortgage would probably buy me a decent RV-10!! I'll find a transition IP, as suggested. I'd rather start learning to fly what I'm going to build/buy anyway. Worst case scenario, I'll learn whether or not I really like the RV series, and get my TW sign off.

Case
 
Toobuilder said:
Right Bob... Didn't mean to imply pistons are "difficult", but it's just an area that the military does not train for.

As an aside, I suspect that the difficulties encountered with the Air Force and their T-3 Firefly may have been related in some way to the proper care and feeding of a high performance piston engine. I was working at Edwards when they scrapped all those airframes and parts. Broke my heart to see the destruction of all those new in the crate AEIO-540's and MT props!
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Michael, didn't take that as a jab at all. I concur with you, most military guys aren't trained in black-blue-red, unless they do it on their own. I think it was a good comment. These helo guys though...with their ability to manage a gazillion moving parts all moving in opposite directions, with both hands and both feet moving all the time...he should do AOK! :D Still haven't figured out why they say its so much fun, yet they don't like to tell people they do it! :p I've gotten lots of rides, including one from out of the water...so I like the H bubbas!!

And you say they threw away a bunch of 540s! :eek:

Sig600 said:
Go to Van's site and find one of the transition IP's. Rather than spend the money on both a tailwheel endorsement and tranistion training later, you can knock them all out at the same time. Of course with that SD BAH maybe money isn't an issue!
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60Bubba said:
Riiiight. I bought a house in SD in April of 2006. The amount I'm upside down on my mortgage would probably buy me a decent RV-10!! I'll find a transition IP, as suggested. I'd rather start learning to fly what I'm going to build/buy anyway. Worst case scenario, I'll learn whether or not I really like the RV series, and get my TW sign off.

Case
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Good call on combining the two. Two birds, one stone, and lotsa fun! If you get up to Fallon on an airwing-X, give a holler and come over to Reno for a ride! Then you can give Sig grief about the BAH comment in person! :p Has BAH ever paid for real SD rent or mortgage? My 20 years there sez no! Wish I'd figured out as a bachelor that it could have gone to an airplane though! :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Bob
 
60Bubba said:
Riiiight. I bought a house in SD in April of 2006. The amount I'm upside down on my mortgage would probably buy me a decent RV-10!! I'll find a transition IP, as suggested. I'd rather start learning to fly what I'm going to build/buy anyway. Worst case scenario, I'll learn whether or not I really like the RV series, and get my TW sign off.

Case
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You should qualify for the HAP based on your date of purchase. Assuming you're looking to sell.
 
@ SIG600: Yes, it looks like we do meet the basic criteria. I'm going to be doing my Department Head tour in San Diego, starting next week, actually. We're good for another two years or so. I figure by then they will have probably canceled the program or run out of money to fund it :)
 
60Bubba said:
@ SIG600: Yes, it looks like we do meet the basic criteria. I'm going to be doing my Department Head tour in San Diego, starting next week, actually. We're good for another two years or so. I figure by then they will have probably canceled the program or run out of money to fund it :)
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By then the State of CA will have long since collapsed and it'll be a moot point. Dirty hinge...
 
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