T

Tom McCutcheon

Well Known Member
We are flying our RV-4's from Vancouver WA (near Portland OR.) in September. I haven't done this for 17 or 18 years. Can anyone tell us the best way to get from the Bakersfield area to Long Beach. I've been through the VFR Coridor and that was a hassle a long time ago. We will be flying VFR. Is VFR flight following commonly available? Any suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks
Tom
 
Depends on which corridor you used. The SFRA (Special Flight Rules Area) is trivial. Fly to Santa Monica VOR (SMO, 110.8), tune in 128.55, and squawk 1201. Fly the 132 radial until you're south of LAX, announcing your position as you go. Squawk 1200 when you're done and call LGB tower.

Another way to go is around to the north. Fly toward downtown LA at 2000'. Follow the 60 freeway to the 710 freeway. Talk to El Monte (EMT)tower on 121.2 and tell 'em you're transitioning eastbound along the 60 at 2000'. Freq change when you're clear of their Class D, then call LGB tower inbound.

How's this for an offer...let me know when you're coming and from roughly which direction, and I will escort you to LGB. All you have to do is fly off my wing.
 
The from the North End run to the East

From Arkansas - It is something to do your homework for and the VFR solutions are varied including just going over the top or under the base (from VTU) of the Class B out toward Catalina and coming in from the island.

Otherwise, coming down from Bakersfield you will be going over Gorman VOR an through the pass toward Van Nuys. Be sure you have a good plan for the class B and the Burbank class C Airspace. Using the old "LA corridor" Dan described is best if the weather is compatible with a 3,500ft flight in that area. The problem is getting into it. The top of Burbank is 4800ft and the floor of the class B over the Santa Monica Mountains was 5,000ft (they play with this from time to time so you need to get the current limits nailed down). My approach was to fly at the lowest appropriate altitude for my direction of flight above 4,800ft over the Burbank airspace until a point where I can descend to 4,900ft for 2 minutes or less before passing under the Class B airspace which was defined by a radial off of Ventura which youy will be too low to receive. You need a good defining land mark for the co-located Class B north and Burbank Class C south boundaries or a GPS moving map that shows you these boundaries the danger is getting too high and clipping the LAX Class B or descending into the Burbank Class C. I found a reservoir up on the north side of the hills was a good visual reference for the boundary. Once I passed the bounday in VFR weather I made a rapid descent to 3,500ft and follow the radial south as Dan described. I stay up there until clear of Torrance airspace then descend to the west out over the ocean and call SoCal approach for that area to get into Long Beach.

If the weather is not cooperating for the corridor I turn east as soon as I come over the San Fernando Valley and follow the high mountains. There is a major freeway near the foothills called the I-210 and I stay to the left of it to be sure I'm out of everyone's airspace. I also stay above 4,800 ft until I have passed passed the Rose Bowl and I know I am clear of Burbank's Class C before descending. I go farther east than Dan but that's just me. I go the El Monte but I stay at 3,500ft and I don't call them. I fly 150 degrees to the Rose Hills Cemetery on a 1,300+ft hill near the 60 freeway and I-605 and call SoCall Approach as I getting into that area. This gets a little tricky because of El Monte's Class D, Fullerton's Class D, the Disneyland TFR, and the Class B airspace. Perhaps Dan's suggestion is best as far as calling El Monte Tower is concerned, they will give you a SOCal Frequency to call as you leave their airspace and it kind of gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling as you start talking to the controllers.

Bob Axsom
 
I fly out of both Santa Monica (noth of the Class B) and Torrance (south of the Class B). For what it's worth, when I'm coming from the north I take the Special Flight Rules at 3,500, following the procedure Dan mentioned. Once you pass the "Candy Canes" (red and white stripped smoke stacks on the coast just south of LAX, can't miss them) you'll be clear of the LAX Class B. Continue south, turning east just a bit aiming for the east side of the Palos Verdes pennisula, it's the big hill in front of you. Maintain at least 2,500 and you'll be clear of the TOA airspace, and contact LGB tower, telling them you're inbound from the north-west. You'll most likely get a downwind entry to 25L. You'll enter the pattern flying just north of signal hill which will probably be you're reporting point.

Flying Dan's other suggestion, crusing just north of dowtown LA at 2,000 feet is definitley the scenic route, and a lot of fun. However if you're not familiar with the area and the airspace it might be a bit challenging. But if you take Dan up on his offer not only will it be a piece of cake, it should also be a lot of fun.
 
Good luck

I have the privilege of flying in and out of LGB about every weekend and it is a very very busy area... LGB is probably my least favorite airport to fly into for trying not to get hit by someone... Any given day there is always someone lost and not were they are supposed to be... I have had more TCAS RA in and out of Long Beach than all other airports combined.. The good part is that is is a very beautiful area of the country...
Just do what you have been trained to do and enjoy yourself..
Cwoodyfly2001
 
If you are depending on a computer forum for advice stay home. Sit down with an instructor you trust and ask him/her to walk you thru the process. Explain your PERSONAL LIMITS and plan accordingly.
Sorry if this sounds harsh.
Tom
northern california
 
Tom, ignore the discouragement and the overly complex answers. Just get yourself an LA Terminal Chart. There is lots of "airspace" but it's not really any more complicated than anything else. On the back of the chart you'll see the various transitions.

Drop me some email as the date gets closer and I'll help you out...SIMPLY.
 
Thank you Dan and the others very much for the help. And, don't wory, I'm not descouraged by the one negative note. I have several thousand hours, instrument & commercial rated. However, I always learn something when I go somewhere unfamiliar by just asking questions and listening. Actually I've flown many times into Long Beach from up here. But since it has been quite a while, I thought I would ask the question. We ordered the TCA chart a couple of days ago but the sectional showed the the L.A. TCA larger than I remembered. So, I asked the question here and (as is expected and is usually the rule) all but one of you were very helpful.

We would go IFR except that our planes are not legally equiped and my son doesn't have the rating. Moving maps sure are nice though. Thank you again for all the help.
 
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dan said:
Tom, ignore the discouragement and the overly complex answers.
Click to expand...

I feel like I've gotta comment on this one. The original poster said that he was coming from Oregon, which I figure is significantly less congested than SoCal, and that he hadn't done so in 18 years. He also revealed some lack of familiarity by asking if VFR flight following is available. The post that advised him not to rely on this forum, but to instead have a sit-down with a qualified instructor is not at all negative, just conservative. As a low time pilot myself who has flown the LAX corridor, I have to say it can be a bit intimidating. I'm sure some will read this and decide I'm not a "real pilot" for admitting a weakness, but I plan on living to 100 and part of my strategy is to keep from getting in over my head by being honest about my limitations. I'm not trying to spoil anybody's good time, but this is deadly serious stuff.

As an example, even though I'm low in total time, I have logged a significant amount of acro. I sought out the right training and now am comfortable with basic loops, rolls, spins, etc. My honest feeling is that, for me now, a loop is no harder than most other things you do in a plane. But should I pass this opinion on to a newbie? Telling a stranger to ignore the advice of other experienced pilots seems a bit too much in something as dangerous as flying.
 
Tom McCutcheon said:
Thank you Dan and the others very much for the help. And, don't wory, I'm not descouraged by the one negative note. I have several thousand hours, instrument & commercial rated. However, I always learn something when I go somewhere unfamiliar by just asking questions and listening. Actually I've flown many times into Long Beach from up here. But since it has been quite a while, I thought I would ask the question. We ordered the TCA chart a couple of days ago but the sectional showed the the L.A. TCA larger than I remembered. So, I asked the question here and (as is expected and is usually the rule) all but one of you were very helpful.

We would go IFR except that our planes are not legally equiped and my son doesn't have the rating. Moving maps sure are nice though. Thank you again for all the help.
Click to expand...

Tom, the last time we visited my oldest son who lives south of Long Beach and flies out of Fall Brook, he gave me the LA VFR local area chart to hang on our wall in Missouri. It is indeed interesting and could be intimidating, but after a bit of study, very straight forward and no big deal. Makes for good conversation in the mid west where things are not quite so crowded.

With a bit planning, you won't have a problem. Might even be fun.

dd
 
One more thought

I don't know how many RV-4s you have in your flight. If you have more than two planes in your flight, I think you should give that some special consideration if you plan on coming through "the corridor". It is a bit narrow, single altitude and the Santa Monica VOR radial center line tends to keep everyone in the same space and the speeds tend to vary (I was passed by a B-25 not long before I retired from the area). There was a mid-air in the corridor several years ago killing everone so you want to be a small target as well as looking and broadcasting. I always include speed with the normal stuff.

Bob Axsom
 
Transition

I would listen to Dan! This is his somewhat backyard and he's FULL of great advise. It's really not that bad, just plan ahead. I would take him up on the wing flight. That would be a fun experience and you would get the nickel tour for sure.
 
LifeofReiley said:
I would listen to Dan! This is his somewhat backyard and he's FULL of great advise. It's really not that bad, just plan ahead. I would take him up on the wing flight. That would be a fun experience and you would get the nickel tour for sure.
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Eh, what do I know?! I've only been to Santa Monica airport 136 times. :D Not like I fly that same route to work or anything...oh, wait.
 
Use the VPLxx points...

David-aviator said:
Tom, the last time we visited my oldest son who lives south of Long Beach and flies out of Fall Brook, he gave me the LA VFR local area chart to hang on our wall in Missouri. It is indeed interesting and could be intimidating, but after a bit of study, very straight forward and no big deal. Makes for good conversation in the mid west where things are not quite so crowded.

With a bit planning, you won't have a problem. Might even be fun.

dd
Click to expand...

If you have a GPS with an aviation database, you can make use of the "Visual Reference Points" that are marked on the Terminal Area Chart.

In the LA area they are of the format VPLxx - as an example, VPLSR is the Intersection of Hawthorne Blvd. and the 405 Freeway.

Even if they are not in your database, the lat./long. for each point is listed on the chart. These can help you keep the freeways and concrete rivers in their correct places when flying. Even though I lived there for 22 years, I found navigating by the freeway system much different from the air. The Visual Reference points helped.

I never flew much in the LA basin while I lived there (busy flying gliders in the desert) and, like the original poster was worried when I flew solo into Hawthorne Airport from Tucson, about as deep into the LA basin as you can go... :)

With the GPS, the Terminal Area chart, it turned into a non-event.

If others are interested, the Terminal Area Chart is here.....

http://skyvector.com Choose the LA terminal chart with the RH menu..

gil in Tucson
 
OK

I flew to work there every day for 15 years and in the basin generaly for 22 so I know very well that it is not a casual walk in the park. I also believe that Tom is well aware of that so it will be managed well.

Bob Axsom
 
Thanks again to everyone for your information and encouragement. I appologize if I offended anyone as that was not my intent.

With all of the hours and ratings that I have I still do not know everything - not even close. Each of you that answered with your personal experience has way more relative information and experience than any instructor that I know up here.

This is just another way for which this forum is so great. RV people helping RV people. Or maybe I should say pilots helping pilots. I have read every one of your comments and each in your own way had good information. I now have a very clear picture in my head, on paper, and in my GPS, as to how I plan to navigate that area. Your information has alleviated any concerns I had and given me exceptionaly good information on what to look out for or cautions. I have taken them all into consideration and we are still going.

Just a side note. At Dan's suggestion I have changed our destination from Long Beach to Fullerton ("a lot more RV friendly"). I checked them out on AirNav and they seem to get nothing but great raves. I called and talked to Dana there and he was very helpful. Relatively speaking the price of fuel seems reasonable there also. Good to have such service.

Tom
 
Tom,

Now that you've got the flying part sorted, you've still got to figure the most important phase of the mission: where to eat. I'm a lifelong Fullerton resident and like to think I've got the local restaurants pretty well sussed out. If you need any guidance just let me know what you like.
 
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