RV7Guy

RV7Guy

Well Known Member
Just had an incident that I thought couldn't occur among RV folks. A project was advertised here and I made arrangements to go see it. Unfortunately, the weather precluded a flight to the location and the guy had to go to work for the next few days eliminating a drive. I then had to go to my job for next 7 days.

I confirmed with the seller that I was the first contact and he would give me first shot at the project if I was serious. I confirmed by email that I intended to purchase the project upon satisfactory inspection. We confirmed that the first chance I could go would be this coming Saturday. Later I got an email that he had decided to sell to the first person who showed up with the money and that a guy from another area was coming to look. I tried phone calls with no response. My thought was he could let the other guy know that he would have an answer for him by Saturday.

Today I got an email that told me that he sold the project to the other guy.

Needless to say, I'm a little bummed. He's had the project for some time, what is another few days? Please folks, if you say something, stick to it.
 
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First come...

...or first with the money?
Sorry you didn't get the project. Over the years I've sold several items (mainly vehicles) and numerous times someone will say they definitely will buy, only to never hear from them again. Meanwhile I turn other potential buyers away waiting on someone who never shows. Now my rule is, the first one with the money gets the sale. I agree though that he should have stuck to his word.
 
consider

I see both parts of this as I have seen many times when a buyer is sure he will buy, just to never hear from him again.

What I do instead from either end is to offer a deposit that would only be refunded if the inspection went bad.

Just my $0.02 worth.
 
Well, the root of the problem is that not everyone sticks to their word. Both buyers and sellers.

When I was selling my Pulsar a year ago I had a guy who said "Sold. Done deal. I'll be there this weekend with the money". Less than 2 hours later I had another prospective buyer (who had been asking lots of questions via e-mail) say that he wanted to buy it and had the money ready. I had to turn him away because it was "sold". The next day, the "done deal" guy backed out, and the 2nd guy moved on to his runner up and already purchased it. I lost out.

So, as much as I'd like to say I agree with you, I can't simply because I don't blindly trust the word of others. There is something you can do, though. Give the seller a significant deposit and let him know that you will buy it. If not, he can keep the deposit. He should then agree to turn away any other buyers until you came to pick up the airplane.
 
deposit

When I bought my project, I insisted on sending him a 50% deposit before I inspected.

Hans
 
Deposits

flytoboat said:
...or first with the money?
Sorry you didn't get the project. Over the years I've sold several items (mainly vehicles) and numerous times someone will say they definitely will buy, only to never hear from them again. Meanwhile I turn other potential buyers away waiting on someone who never shows. Now my rule is, the first one with the money gets the sale. I agree though that he should have stuck to his word.
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Been there, done that. In many years of buying and selling collector cars I came to the same decision. The only way I will "sit" on a deal is with the receipt of a deposit. People tend to follow up if they have a little "skin in the game." I have never kept a deposit if the deal falls apart, but it does add motivation and helps separate the lookie-loos from the buyers.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
I'm sorry about your experience but that's people for you. When I put my little Cessna up for sale, I can't count how many Lookie Lou's I had to deal with that were basically looking for a free ride on my dime. Then, a potential buyer flew in from out of state to inspect the airplane and assured me he'd be back the next weekend with his mechanic/ferry pilot to close the deal. I tend to be a trusting guy and had no reason to doubt him. A few days later another buyer flew in from even farther away and was willing to give me a deposit right then and there. He wanted the plane so his wife could learn to fly in it. Because I told him I promised the first guy that he had first dibs, the second buyer got indignant and walked away. Later....you guessed it....the first guy changed his mind and decided he didn't want the airplane after all. That was the first and last time I'll ever do that. I kept my word and it hurt. People can and will waste your time. From now on, I will make no such promises. As far as I'm concerned, cash is king and the first buyer to pony up closes the deal.
 
RV7Guy said:
I confirmed with the seller that I was the first contact and he would give me first shot at the project if I was serious. I confirmed by email that I intended to purchase the project upon satisfactory inspection. We confirmed that the first chance I could go would be this coming Saturday.
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Sounds like he is less than honorable.:mad:

If he had stated right up front that "first person with cash-----" then you would not have a gripe, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
 
Meant to be

I say to you what I tell my kids, "If it was meant to be it would have happened". Move on and keep your eyes open. Chances are you will find a better fit. Funny how often that happens...
 
I have

Tonard Bales said:
I say to you what I tell my kids, "If it was meant to be it would have happened". Move on and keep your eyes open. Chances are you will find a better fit. Funny how often that happens...
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Great thought. I utilized my "12 minute rule" and moved on. Others have had good comments about deposits etc...This is RV land, I was a local guy,(same State) and he said he would give me first shot. I would have given him a deposit and probably should have offered one.

Everyone knows it is not hard to sell on here, so that is why I was disappointed he could wait a few more days.

I'm moving on.
 
Last summer I was shopping for a -8. A beautiful IFR -8 came up for sale in Columbus OH. I traded emails and phone calls and checked out the plane and then made arrangements to drive there from Chicago on a Friday afternoon to inspect the plane Saturday morning.

Just as we were leaving Chicago the owner called and said a guy showed up with a check ready to buy. He did not feel completely good about taking the offer, and offered to put the sale on hold until we got there. He did not try to raise the price or anything - he was just trying to be ethical.

I told him that in my opinion, whoever shows up with the money first had first right to buy the plane. It was super that he called me to let me know, which saved me a long drive, but someone got there first. No hard feelings at all!

I ended up finding another -8 that I bought, that I like a lot, but I guess my heart is still with that beautiful IFR plane in Columbus. I stand by my rule though. I should have left for Columbus Thursday night - it was that good of plane!

Now I'm trying to upgrade my -8 to IFR, which is interesting and I'm sure will be rewarding, but I'd rather be flying! After 53 years of wrestling life to a draw I've come to the conclusion that things don't always work out the way I want them to, but do often work out for the best. Perhaps I will learn things with N247TD that I would not have learned with the Ohio plane.

Some of you guys in Ohio will know the plane I'm speaking of.

I've owned 5 planes and sold 4 and like other posters have had a lot of callers who said they were coming but never showed up.
 
Bummer

Maybe it wasn't meant to be. Maybe you were supposed to miss that opportunity so you could buy mine?

( Shameless Plug :eek:: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=28879 )

Seriously, though, I agree with both sides of the issue. If a seller says he'll hold it, he should hold it. Having said that, however, I would never do so without a deposit. I also wouldn't expect a seller to hold a plane for me without a deposit. It's just the way it should be.
 
Cash talks....

This just happened to a close friend. He's selling his -6a, guy calls up and says "I'll fly in tomorrow, cash in hand". Tomorrow comes and goes, then two days later calls back and wants to negotiate the price before even seeing the plane.

My motto: Cash Talks, BS walks."

Jerry
 
THE GOOD BAD AND THE UGLY

I purchased fuel guages yesterday from an ad on this site. Sent an E-mail to him. He responded. I paid with PAY-PAL.

And today, less than 24 hours later he sent me the tracking number from UPS.... thanks CJ.

Now for the BAD & UGLY........ About a year ago I purchased a NEW "used only 20 hours" LIGHTSPEED ignition from a guy that JUST JOINED this site.
What I got was a bunch of JUNK!!! He was from "down under" so a bit out of reach. The unit was old, black case. He had IMPROVED the wireing and made it better. He told me this when I questioned the codnition. He would not adjust the price or refund, so I now have an extra trigger unit for the mag hole, and 2 extra coils and some leads. But I WILL NEVER TRUST the brain box. I will need to purchase a new one from LSI.

I now look at the date they joined VAF
 
Bubblehead said:
Last summer I was shopping for a -8. A beautiful IFR -8 came up for sale in Columbus OH. I traded emails and phone calls and checked out the plane and then made arrangements to drive there from Chicago on a Friday afternoon to inspect the plane Saturday morning.

Just as we were leaving Chicago the owner called and said a guy showed up with a check ready to buy. He did not feel completely good about taking the offer, and offered to put the sale on hold until we got there. He did not try to raise the price or anything - he was just trying to be ethical.
<SNIP>
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You know that brings up a good point. For most of us an airplane is a huge purchase and can be an enormous headache if it turns out to be a lemon.

So we are encouraged by all sorts of experts not to buy sight unseen, to insist upon a full annual by a disinterested mechanic, title search, AD search, X-ray, eddy current, and FPI inspection, oil analysis, blood sample and fingerprints from the owner, polygraph test, escrow all the funds, contract reviewed by a lawyer and blessed by 3 priests, etc., etc.

Then someone who's willing to shortcut that process just shows up with cash and bam - back to the beginning for our intrepid "careful" buyer.

Reminds me why I'm building.
 
We run into this problem in the boat business every day. I tell people if they are ready to buy pending an inspection - leave a deposit. A second potential buyer can certainly make a contingency with a deposit, should the first buyer FOB (fall out of bed). Many times a buyer cann't get financing, wife didn't get her new furniture, etc.

Tony
 
Been There

I've gone through the same with an RV7 project last year. There was another (won't mention names) VAF member that beat me out of the purchase. Forgive and forget. If it's mean't to be... it will happen. And if a jerk comes between you, it is probably best you walked away.
 
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I found a Supercub 600 miles away and told the owner if it was as advertized I would take it. I was delayed by weather for two days, the plane was as advertized and we made the deal. The owner mentioned after I bought the plane that he had turned down offers thousands of dollars over his asking price because he gave me his word over the phone. There are still gentlemen out there.
 
My kit came from this site

I bought my kit from someone on this site. He agreed to hold the kit for me, and stuck to the agreement despite offers of paying a higher price, and delivering cash to him same day.
 
Mee too!

I put a deposit on a RV-10 tail kit advertised here as a hold for inspection with a commitment to buy if the kit was as described. Traveled 600 miles to meet the guy halfway. Upon inspection, the construction and condition was not as described. I do not believe it ever sold. Rather than start WWIII over $700, I wallked away. Sometimes its not meant to be and it will cost you too!

I've driven over 10000 miles buying and helping friends buy kits. You never know what is going to happen until you get to your location. To the credit of most here, the experience is usually good.

FWIW.
 
I too bought my partially completed 9A from a member of this site (since moved on to hot air ballooning). After a phone call and a visit, I offered a $500 deposit, which was accepted. A month or so later, I was picking it up. Like a lot of you have said, money talks. I just happened to be the first one there with a deposit.:)
 
Hard Knox said:
I put a deposit on a RV-10 tail kit advertised here as a hold for inspection with a commitment to buy if the kit was as described. Traveled 600 miles to meet the guy halfway. Upon inspection, the construction and condition was not as described...
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When I was helping someone shop for an RV I was sometimes mystified as to whether people were being dishonest or if they were delusional. I would fly many hundreds of miles to look at an airplane that certainly was nothing like as described, in my mind. I particularly remember one in the Dallas area that was rated something like a 9 out of 10 for the exterior. Aside from all the beat-up skins and such the cowling air intake was just hanging on by a few threads. I was not willing to ride in this airplane that was rated so near perfect.

But surely the sellers know we are going to look at the airplane, so there wouldn't seem to be much point in upsetting a potential buyer by having them spend lots of money and time just to realize it is all wasted. Maybe they really really think their airplane or airplane parts are that good?
 
A deposit subject to inspection can work pretty well IF you include a drop dead date and clear terms in a written document of some sort.

"Purchaser is granted sole right to purchase, subject to his inspection and acceptance at the Sellers address, until midnight mm/dd/yy. Satisfactory condition of the goods is in the sole opinion of the Purchaser. Should Purchaser find the goods to be unsatisfactory, deposit shall be returned in full. If inspection and acceptance or denial does not take place before midnight, mm/dd/yy, Seller shall retain Purchaser's deposit without further obligation."

Kickers generally won't send money because they're being forced to make some commitment. Good folks are likely to send money; they're more comfortable with a clear agreement in place.

That aside, we've all done the road trips, and the agreement won't eliminate wasted travel. There is some self-delusion out there regarding quality, but mostly they just lie. My own worst were a run to Kansas for a Breezy (the "Cub wings" turned out to be all plywood), and a run to Ocala for a Glastar project (apparently back-riveted with a ball peen hammer). On the flip side, I once drove 2300 round trip for a bird better than I had any right to dream. You never know.
 
I had same happen to me whilst selling a motorbike a month or so ago.
The fellow came to see it, said it was absolutely perfect and could I wait while he got finance. Sure I said. I didnt ask a deposit. I told all callers it was sold and was even offered more than I was asking. Cash. I turned it down of course.
Long story short he messed me around for the whole month. Eventually I put it back for sale and made it very clear to all callers that first payer gets it. I sold it easily, but learned a valuable lesson. I doubt Ill be caught again.
 
Thread drifting a bit here-------------

gasman said:
Why not use an ESCROW SERVICE?
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Go back to the original post/premise of this thread-----it is not about how to protect yourself from schmucks-----it is about keeping your word.

Read Darwins last line again.
 
I'm in the process for an -4 project right now, posted that I wanted it, e-mailed him for pictures. He said a deposit was required, so that was mailed off. Now I just need to go pick it up. Pictures showed good worksmanship in what I could see. Do I expect to drive to for 10 hours and come back with nothing? No, but the possibility exists that it might be a waste of time if something is catastrophically wrong.

In general, I've found that most people in aviation in general are really friendly and honorable, but the shysters are hard to smell sometimes... take that big sparkplug deal a couple years ago... I got my money back through the credit card I used, but the guy sounded completely legitimate. To this day I have no idea if he was a shyster, died or what, never heard back.
 
Sorry thread drift sheriff...

Mike S said:
Go back to the original post/premise of this thread-----it is not about how to protect yourself from schmucks-----it is about keeping your word.

Read Darwins last line again.
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You mean this one........
Needless to say, I'm a little bummed. He's had the project for some time, what is another few days? Please folks, if you say something, stick to it.
__________________
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
RV-7 N717EE

I was just responding to #5, #6, #10, #16, #21, #24 and #25.
 
Darwin, I've been a professional buyer/seller about 30 years, most of it in the car business, the last 20 or so self-employed. Being realistic about people is paramount. If I expected people to always keep their word, I would have long since died of depression....or famine. Fact is, most don't.

Experience has also taught me not to assume honor matters to all members of any group, trade, social class, or religion. There are rotten apples in every barrel.

I'm not being negative. Honor matters to me. I know, in perfect detail, exactly how you feel.....and I feel it a few hundred times every year. I'm telling you how I keep my own mental health and blood pressure under control. Shrug it off.

The good news? Honor exists, even if only among a minority. Last Tuesday I got up at 4AM, drove 150 miles, sorted through 80 cars, and spent $16,500 of my own money, all on nothing more than the word of a friend. No hesitation.

More good news; I have a few hundred customers like that. It took 20 years sorting through thousands of dirtbags to find them, but it was worth it.

And last, don't blow off the guy who proved to be a dirtbag. He did you a favor; you know exactly how to deal with him. No need to lower your standards. Just spike his feet to the floor so he can't wiggle, then do business <g>
 
Good points

Hi Dan,

All excellent points. My whole point was as a sub group, (RV'ers) then a sub group of that, (AZ RVer's) that a little consideration could be extended.

I fully understand requiring further when selling a car or motorcycle. You are dealing with an unknown in both direction.

I would rather keep my word and get screwed in the deal than not keep my word. That is more important in the scheme of life.

I've moved on and continue to look for a project.
 
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