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Bob Axsom

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My wife and I returned from a weekend trip to southern California in our RV-6A today (6-1-09) and after landing at Tucumcari, NM on a leg from Sedona, AZ the fueler told me that Homeland Security called and asked for the registration number of our airplane. He said that they did not know if it was a twin or a fast single. He went on to say that Homeland Security calls them a couple of times a week for things like this.

Without going into my view on this I would just like to know if anyone knows what the h3!! they are doing?

Bob Axsom
 
You want better than that? Just ask Jay Pratt about his encounter with the Citation down near Big Bend earlier this year (he was in his Cub clone...)!
 
Can home land sec access FAA's database? Doesn't seem like it. You would guess after 9-11 all gov agencies would be using a common database, or at the very least, share information. Guess that's not case here
 
Re-opened (one of the other mods deleted it, but I think it's relevant to the RV community...actual data point....so I reopened it). It would be nice if an FAA type could chime in here with possible explanations as to what they are doing in Bob's situation.


dr
 
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More than likely they were monitoring for drug runners? Anything to do with SoCal / border area is gonna be watched. Sedona is not really close to the border though.
 
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I think they do

Aviator168 said:
Can home land sec access FAA's database? Doesn't seem like it. You would guess after 9-11 all gov agencies would be using a common database, or at the very least, share information. Guess that's not case here
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In this case they tracked me but had to get my number from the fueler to start the database action. Why is Homeland Security tracking private law abiding planes and getting their registration numbers for entry in a database. The only thing I passed over during the whole trip was Albuquerque and that was above the Class C airspace. When people in a US security agency track my airplane and call the airport where I land and have them relay my airplane registration number to them I get concerned. I wondered two things: 1) What is the purpose of this action? and 2) has anyone else had a similar experience?

Bob Axsom
 
dhs

big
brother is watching
i guess they must have people in dark rooms watching radar screens and rv,s
look like missiles compared to spam cans
 
Bob, They are just doing their job and asking questions. You were not detained or directly questioned, ramp checked, and your trip was not disrupted in any way. While I can understand your feelings of being "watched" the facts can be watched every time we fly. Everytime you file a flight plan, use Flight Following, ATC, Flight Services, ect., a record is made of you and your aircraft and details of the flight.

Every phone call you make, every time you use a credit card, PDA, every time you hit enter and your puter, make a bank transaction, walk into any store, you are being recorded and your actions are being scrutinized.
 
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Geico266 said:
Bob, They are just doing their job and asking questions. You were not detained or directly questioned, ramp checked, and your trip was not disrupted in any way. While I can understand your feelings of being "watched" the facts can be watched every time we fly.
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Larry,

I disagree with you. While we are tracked when we fly, we have the option of flying anonymously, if we elect to do so. TSA and DHS has no right or need for the N-number when a private citizen is traveling on their own.

This is more like the government tacking your every movement when in your car.
 
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This same thing happened a two weeks ago while our breakfast crew was at Columbus, IN for breakfast. I observed the line guy writing N-numbers down of all the airplanes on the ramp, and headed back for the phone. Obama was due in Indy later that day, and of course the military was everywhere. I asked the line guy about it and he said there was an aircraft that shut its transponder off the night before and they thought he landed here, whatever that meant. Thats when I politely told him if it were me on the phone, I would give them some numbers, but they might reflect my sudden dyslexia.
 
Bob,

I suggest you contact your elected representatives and file a complaint.

Only if all of us good American citizens raise their voices will we take our country back from those who would like to control our every movement and then will we once again be the land of the free.
 
This is a request for knowledge

I sincerely want to know what is going on here. I do not want to rationalize it away without knowing the facts.

Bob Axsom
 
Waco is already forced to wear badges... just to get to their RV in the hangar.
 
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Bob Axsom said:
I sincerely want to know what is going on here. I do not want to rationalize it away without knowing the facts.

Bob Axsom
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Facts - Last year, the Cards flew home from Big Bend to the Austin area and the Tower at their home field told them that the Border Patrol (division of DHS) had asked for their N-number, probably because they took off right next to the border. Unfortunately, a pop-up on the radar from that area can look a lot like a drug pick-up, I assume. When Louise and I fly out there, we come home to our airpark, so there isn't any FBO or Tower to call - but I wonder if we've been tracked?

I agree that Bob's intent on this thread to collect some info and exchange stories that ar DIRECTLY aviation related is good - but if people start taking random political shots, it's not going to serve much purpose - can we keep it factual and civil?

Paul
 
You gotta be kidding?

FWIW, It appears from the examples posted here that all of the airports involved were non towered, uncontrolled fields. Is it not fair to ask why a line person, working for a FBO(private company) is being contacted by HLS(governtment agency) and asked to if you will, "spy" on a law abiding citizens. Not being political, but just reminding everyone that history has recorded this type of government activity in the past.
 
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Bob, you really should pick up the phone in the AM and call your elected representatives.
 
The same thing, more or less, is happening up here in the Pacific Northwest. In our case they are flying intercept missions courtesy of the Border Patrol if you are within ~50 miles of the Canadian border.

I am based at Arlington, WA (KAWO), and a number of folks on the field have reported that they have been followed and interviewed. In our case the folks in the choppers have been up front and told us that they are chasing drugistas down. They're more than willing to have a conversation, and have really been trying to be reasonable. Not that any of us like it.

Anyone flying NORDO or without a transponder is particularly likely to get the visit. Personally I usually squawk and also work the local Class C military control, so I seem to have been immune so far.
 
Under Observation

Flying out of Arlington, WA and surrounding airports has brought with it some specifically directed attention. We have been briefed and have been told …. BEWARE…to wit:
If you are flying southbound any where with in 50 NM of the Canadian border and either do not have a flight plan or were not observed departing a US airport, You WILL be trailed until your intentions are discerned or you are interviewed. In some cases you will be encouraged to land. In other cases they will follow you to your airport and watch you park your plane unobserved. In all cases (to the best of their ability) they will be watching.

We are, as are many southern states, a primary contraband smuggling route both through the mountains and up and down our island coastal areas. Or at least that’s what we are told. Drugs southbound and weapons northbound. We have local busts regularly.

‘THEY’ are the US Customs and Border Protection folks operating as an arm of, and responsible to Homeland Security. Good luck with your protests. Even RVs have been used.
 
Let's not over react

Flying in the Detroit area means flying near Canada, all the way up to PHN and all the way down to ONZ. There are several non-towered airports including ONZ, PHN, D57, D98, VLL, 76G, Z92. There are even private, public use fields near the border such as 5Y5. Most everyone I know flies VFR sans flight plan and I've never heard of any "harassment". We even have Selfridge ANG base as a site for Homeland Security in the middle of all this. I even know of one with no transponder, an old Luscomb.
 
Good input - thanks

Frank said:
Flying out of Arlington, WA and surrounding airports has brought with it some specifically directed attention. We have been briefed and have been told …. BEWARE…to wit:
If you are flying southbound any where with in 50 NM of the Canadian border and either do not have a flight plan or were not observed departing a US airport, You WILL be trailed until your intentions are discerned or you are interviewed. In some cases you will be encouraged to land. In other cases they will follow you to your airport and watch you park your plane unobserved. In all cases (to the best of their ability) they will be watching.

We are, as are many southern states, a primary contraband smuggling route both through the mountains and up and down our island coastal areas. Or at least that’s what we are told. Drugs southbound and weapons northbound. We have local busts regularly.

‘THEY’ are the US Customs and Border Protection folks operating as an arm of, and responsible to Homeland Security. Good luck with your protests. Even RVs have been used.
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I tookoff from Sedona which is pretty far north of the border and flew VFR on victor airways via INW, ZUN, ABQ, OTO, ACH to TCC. When I was just inside 20 miles from Albuquerque Airport I started calling ABQ approach and they never responded allthough I could hear them clearly - it was as though my transmissions were jammed. I kept trying across that whole valley. No communication problems were experienced anywhere else.

I asked for information and you have supplied some very good input. Thank you.

Bob Axsom
 
This is not a complaint about harrassment

hevansrv7a said:
Flying in the Detroit area means flying near Canada, all the way up to PHN and all the way down to ONZ. There are several non-towered airports including ONZ, PHN, D57, D98, VLL, 76G, Z92. There are even private, public use fields near the border such as 5Y5. Most everyone I know flies VFR sans flight plan and I've never heard of any "harassment". We even have Selfridge ANG base as a site for Homeland Security in the middle of all this. I even know of one with no transponder, an old Luscomb.
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Do you have any information to supply about what they are doing? If this is the new standard of life in these United States I will live with it but I would like to know what is going on.

Bob Axsom
 
Ok I have to jump in since I have 3 buddies who are CBP pilots. For the most part these guys are GA flyers as well, so the last thing they want to do is ruin GA flying.
My guess would be some of you are just the unwitting target of a practice mission.
I am sure there are some bad attitudes as with any job, but I think these guys on a whole are just trying to do their jobs and keep terrorist and drugs out with the limited resources that they have.

As far as being upset about what they are doing. Is it really that much different then driving your car down the road and having the PO PO check your license plate. I know its kind of a stretch, but when you are driving from mexico you are subject to scrutiny, so its not going to be much different when you are flying. I agree they probably shouldn't be involving the FBO line guys in the process, sounds to me like someone is lazy, but I think following you if you are within so many miles of a boarder or when a TFR is coming near by isn't necessarily a bad thing. But then again I am trying to get a job with them so I could be alittle biased
 
Profiling?

Some may say this is a stretch, but reading between the lines, it appears that GA pilots are now being profiled during the process of lawful activities. If we were all playing baseball, our batting average could be argued to be .333. We still have our lives, but it seems that liberty and the pursuit of happiness are leaving us 1 for 3 and batting last.
 
Liberty

Hard Knox said:
Some may say this is a stretch, but reading between the lines, it appears that GA pilots are now being profiled during the process of lawful activities. If we were all playing baseball, our batting average could be argued to be .333. We still have our lives, but it seems that liberty and the pursuit of happiness are leaving us 1 for 3 and batting last.
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Moderators, it's your call.

I will see if if my agreement with Robby's post will last more than two minutes.

My concern is for this Nation. I am retired military and am concerned for our liberty and for the persuit of happiness too.

If this concern about our ability to fly and enjoy our hobby of homebuilding is too political for this forum then God help us.
 
Agreed, politics definitely affects our rights and freedoms to do what we love: building and flying airplanes. If the forum cannot tolerate some political discussion when government policy starts effecting people then we will probably loose what we have, and the US will turn into the rest of the world where GA is unobtainable or even completely gone.
 
Airport businesses need to respect our privacy!

Bob,

Airnav offers the ability for users to leave comments about services at airport businesses. A comment stating that your affairs and privacy were not respected by the establishment that you chose to do business with would go a long way to keep me from spending my dollars there. (Just a thought.)


Before posting this I spent quite a bit of time trying to find an old post about the "Right to fly." While we all swatted that topic around somebody came up with an actual Federal Code by number that stated it is everybodies right to transverse the airspace... I couldn't find it. Anybody remember that one? I'd like to read it again.
 
Bryan Wood said:
...
Before posting this I spent quite a bit of time trying to find an old post about the "Right to fly." While we all swatted that topic around somebody came up with an actual Federal Code by number that stated it is everybodies right to transverse the airspace... I couldn't find it. Anybody remember that one? I'd like to read it again.
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Bryan,

I hope you find that Federal Code because the courts have held that the right to drive is a privilege, not a right, and that has been used to slap a lot of restrictions on driving, including check points.
 
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Nothing

Bob Axsom said:
Do you have any information to supply about what they are doing? If this is the new standard of life in these United States I will live with it but I would like to know what is going on.

Bob Axsom
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I don't have any information and that is the point; there is none, at least not around here. My comment was not for you, Bob, but for some the other remarks on the thread. You asked a well formed question and we should not be highjacking your thread. So, I'm sorry if I seem to be one of those.
 
Privacy is not equal to anonymity

N941WR said:
Larry,

I disagree with you. While we are tracked when we fly, we have the option of flying anonymously, if we elect to do so. TSA and DHS has no right or need for the N-number when a private citizen is traveling on their own.

This is more like the government tacking your every movement when in your car.
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Privacy and anonymity are not the same thing. You can't legally fly your RV without N numbers, for example. Also, try Googling "GPS TRACKING DECISION" and be sure to read this one. Not filing a flight plan is not equal to anonymous.

Police of all kinds have the right to make reasonable inquiries of the public at large about what they deem suspicious behavior. Asking about an N number belonging to someone at an FBO is not invading anyone's privacy since the FBO is a public place situated on an airport that is inherently subject to federal regulation to some degree. Consider that the question may have been asked in order to ensure that Bob was not someone in whom they had an interest.

This does not help answer Bob's question, but is an attempt to keep reasonable limits on the discussion. There is no constitutional right to fly nor any right of anonymity of which I'm aware. We are excercising the privelages of a federal license. Even the state of your health is subject to that regulatory power.
 
If you fly with a Mode S transponder (Garmin 330, etc) ATC knows who you are when you are in a radar service area, even when squawking VFR.

When/IF ADS-B is fully rolled out ATC will know who you are from take-off to touchdown on every flight.
 
hevansrv7a said:
.....This does not help answer Bob's question, but is an attempt to keep reasonable limits on the discussion. There is no constitutional right to fly nor any right of anonymity of which I'm aware. We are excercising the privelages of a federal license. Even the state of your health is subject to that regulatory power.[/FONT]
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Help me, please - where in the Constitution does it say that the federal police can make inquiries and searches of aircraft lawfully operating within our borders? Where does it say they have authority over my health issues?

So many people in the country now have NO CLUE as to the content and function of the Constitution and the limited power it grants to the government. Rights are given to The People by God, *not* by the Constitution or the federal government. But unfortunately, so many of these same people are so quick to eagerly and foolishly surrender power to the central authority.

As far as I'm concerned, flying is indeed a right. Not only because the Constitution says nothing about it, but because the word itself matters. The more we prostrate ourselves to the likes of the power hungry federal authoritarians, the more freedoms they'll attempt to control or remove.
 
Well, IMO, this has run it's course.

This thread has crossed over to a more "AOPA site" discussion than an RV topic.

I'm closing it up. If Doug wants to unlock it, or delete it entirely, so be it.

Joe
 
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