cleve_thompson

cleve_thompson

Well Known Member
I recently was put in a holding pattern for > 30 minutes and was very thankful for the GRT EFIS, Trutrak 2 axis A/P with GPSS and the Garmin 430 on my panel! There are several buttons to push and I thought some might like to know which ones make the blasted holds easier.:D
The autopilot has to be in GPSS mode, the altitude needs to be entered in the GRT PFD first. Then no other buttons are needed to be pushed on the A/P.
As you are approaching the holding fix, the EFIS needs to be put in the Heading mode and I like to have the screen split with the PFD and the HSI displayed.
The OBS key on the 430 must be pushed and the reciprocal of the radial entered in the pop-up box on the 430.
Now you see the course too the fix displayed on the PFD. With the heading bug. steer down it. As you cross the fix, again using the heading bug, turn either to the left or right and start the clock. Fly parallel the OBS course for 1 minute and the turn towards the course again with the bug!
As you are released from the hold, the OBS/suspend key must be pushed and the EFIS put back in GPSS mode.
Doing this, I am able to fly an almost perfect reproducible oval track and with very little work. The altitude hold makes maintaining constant altitude a piece of cake. Who would want to go back to round gauges? The transition was difficult for me but worth it!
 
I have the same setup. The thing that bugs me is that the GRT won't command a standard rate turn through the turn of the heading bug. The turn to a heading seems very lethargic with mine. Maybe you have a different experience?
 
Hi Cleve,
Can you clarify one thing pls, when you set the course do you see it on the PFD or on the map page?
I have used this function and have not seen any course or any thing on the PFD beside the needle. Also, for some reason I can not set my OBS course on the 430 and only the GRT can set it. So, here are the steps that I need to take in order to set it
If not in GPS mode on 430, I need to push the CDI to go to GPS and then press OBS key? then use the GRT right knob (when in HSI screen) to set the course. For some reason I can not set the course on 430 and wonder what settings need to be changed to allow that.

Scott,
My turns when driven by the A/P are very close to SRT so I think that is a setting on the A/P that you can adjust as how tight of a turn (bank) you are allowing it. I am sure your cruise speed at the time has some to do with it as well.
 
Mehrdad,
I see my course displayed on the HSI which I have up on the right half of the PFD page. I look at the map on the 430 for situational awareness. I don't use the map page on the EFIS.
I usually leave the 430 in the GPS mode not the VLOC mode. Then when I hit the OBS key, a window pops up on the 430 and I set the course there. When I do this the course is displayed on the 430 and the HSI half of the EFIS. I think I remember that in the VLOC mode, I also have to set course on the HSI/PFD right hand knob and that if the HSI is not on the display I can't do it at all. I am not sure for I just don't use the VOR.

Scot, I too do not get a standard rate turn at any speed. I have found that if I load the approach as I near the final course rather than letting the GPS steer me onto final, I don't overshoot final as much. One of my mentors gets really upset by a overshoot but I usually try to ignore him. ;)
I think I vaguely remember someone asking Carlos about correcting this less than standard rate turn problem and he didn't have a solution. I am just not sure though. I think it must be the "old timers" syndrome causing me trouble.

By the way, I have printed up and laminated a check list for various instrument approaches and I use it or I forget which buttons to push when. I am going to make me a check list for these holds also. There are many buttons to push and the sequence is important.

Merhdad, I have tried to set the sensitivities on the T/T without success so far and just accept a half standard turn and a little overshoot. I think that if I were using round gauges, I wouldn't even notice. ;)
 
Cleve,

Thanks for posting this information. Any chance you could share your checklists? I have a similar setup as you and am still learning how to make the most of it and get everything to do what I like.
 
jump4way said:
Cleve,

Thanks for posting this information. Any chance you could share your checklists? I have a similar setup as you and am still learning how to make the most of it and get everything to do what I like.
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Ditto......
 
Ditto on the Ditto

I would also like to see your check lists for the GRT/TT combo for the different approaches and holds.
Thanks
 
cleve_thompson said:
I have found that if I load the approach as I near the final course rather than letting the GPS steer me onto final, I don't overshoot final as much. I think I vaguely remember someone asking Carlos about correcting this less than standard rate turn problem and he didn't have a solution. I am just not sure though.
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Cleve -

So you're saying that when on a vector to intercept the final approach course of an ILS the AP will overshoot the final approach course? How about when you're on a GPS course about to intercept the inbound on an LPV? How about inbound on a GPS course about to intercept an ILS? Do these overshoot too? How is GPSS with this setup (that should be right on)?

May be a small issue and sounds worse than it is in reality, although the AP ought to be able to turn at standard rate. One thing I really like about the GRT stuff is its ability to head fake the AP and cause the AP to fly a coupled ILS with a TT DigiFlight II VSGV. I'm not aware of any other EFIS system that can do that.

I've been round and round trying to decide which EFIS system to put in my -8. All have pluses and minuses. It's down to (in this order): Garmin G3X, dual GRT 6.5" HX, Advanced 3500 and 3400 (one each). The Garmin and the GRT choices are pretty close in order. Decisions decisions......

Thanks
 
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flickroll said:
Cleve -
.
One thing I really like about the GRT stuff is its ability to head fake the AP and cause the AP to fly a coupled ILS with a TT DigiFlight II VSGV. I'm not aware of any other EFIS system that can do that.
.
Thanks
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I think you need to look into AFS more on this subject. I believe it will do this.

I wish we could get some real manuals from AFS. For all their boxes can do, their 80 some-odd-page manual should be 4 or 5 times that size. As the old show used to say, 'just the facts mam, just the facts'. my 2 cents worth
 
orchidman said:
I think you need to look into AFS more on this subject. I believe it will do this.
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You're correct - I was not aware it could do this - can't find it in the manual. Can anyone confirm this? Also will the Advanced bugs control the AP if you decide to buy a TT AP (and not the Advanced version)?
 
Well, I found on the Advanced forum that the Advanced equipment will indeed fly a coupled SL30 ILS (not sure about a 430, but it should). You need the ARINC adapter to hook this up.

Geez, picking a new panel is a real head scratcher.....lots of great stuff out there!
 
Standard Rate Turns and the GRT....

With my old Pictorial Pilot, I could only get about half standard rate turns in the RV-8, so I always had to manually fly vectors. Once I replaced it with the TT VGSV, I am getting full standard rate, even when coupled to the GRT, and am loving it! Once I engage, I don't have to do anything but turn th knob on the screen - great for IFR in the busy terminal environment.

Since I don't have the "W" version of the 430, I can't get it to fly holds and procedure turns anyway....but it intercepts courses remarkably well!

Paul
 
Ironflight said:
Standard Rate Turns and the GRT....

With my old Pictorial Pilot, I could only get about half standard rate turns in the RV-8, so I always had to manually fly vectors. Once I replaced it with the TT VGSV, I am getting full standard rate, even when coupled to the GRT, and am loving it! Once I engage, I don't have to do anything but turn th knob on the screen - great for IFR in the busy terminal environment.

Since I don't have the "W" version of the 430, I can't get it to fly holds and procedure turns anyway....but it intercepts courses remarkably well!

Paul
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Hmm, this is sounding like different results to me. Maybe it is time to send in my TT VSGV for a modernization upgrade.
 
scard said:
Hmm, this is sounding like different results to me. Maybe it is time to send in my TT VSGV for a modernization upgrade.
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Or get that -8 finished!:p

I was surprised that the new A/P did so well, as I though the slow turn rate was an inherent aspect of the TT filters and gains - but it works great!

Paul
 
Checklist?

Did anyone ever get the checklist from Cleve Thompson on the GRT-Trutrak combo?

Thanks,
 
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