N941WR

N941WR

Legacy Member
I have always thought the "High Performance Endorsement" a bit of a joke.

For example, you need one to fly a Stearman because of the 220 hp engine most of them have, yet they only fly at around 95 mph (depending on rigging, engine, prop, etc.)

Here's the question:

If you build up an engine for your RV that is dyno tested to turn over 200 hp, do you still need this endorsement to fly it?
 
I asked that very question to our local pilot examiner and he told me his understanding is it depends on the engine placard. If it says 180hp, then no endorsement is needed, that is all that the FAA could go on. Made sense to me.
 
Nah, if you go that route I wouldn't worry about it. Don't worry about that, doing a condition inspection, 3 takeoffs and landings in the past 90 days before you carry passengers, etc....



(The rule says that if your aircraft has over 200 h.p. you NEED a high performance endorsement. Just do yourself a favor and find a nice CFI who has access to a Skylane, and pay him for the 3-4 hours you need for it just to humor your insurance company)

:)

This is about as good as my stand-up routine gets :D
 
Old timers excepted

If you had HP time prior to 1997 you don't need an endorsement. Otherwise, looks like you need it.

Btw, any RV with 200+ HP will be quite a bit hotter than a Stearman.

-Rick
 
My thoughts

It's not about being legal with the FAA, it's about flying safe. If you haven't flown a high performance (fast and responsive) airplane before, you probably shouldn't be flying an RV. On the other hand, most of us have or will have several hours of RV transitional training anyway, which, if with a CFI, would count as the HP signoff.
 
Craig, The RV series are probably the most docile high performance airplanes out there. A low time pilot can transition into a 6,7 or 8A in 5-10hrs and a little longer for the taildraggers. So low time pilots should not be discouraged if they want to build or buy an RV. Don
 
Originally

Hi Craig,
The intent of the rule was originally directed at guys going into Mooneys, Cessna 210's and Bonanzas, etc. These airplanes have/had cowl flaps, retractable gear, C/S props and so on, really task-loading a C-150/172 grad with extra "stuff" to remember to cope with. Later, the rule included any airplane with 200 HP or more, even without retracts. (Even the lumbering old Stearman...)

I think we're getting a freebie by not having to comply with this rule (Transition training does do it though) because there are not many RV's that are NOT high performance airplanes in my opinion.

Regards,
 
I GOT MINE YAY!

Well, this is just to brag a little, hehe. I just got my HP and complex endorsement on Saturday! I friend of mine gave me some time on his V tail bonanza. I looked at my logbook after the endorsement and I have a grand total of.....(drum roll) 67.5 hrs! I know I'm still a good ways off from being a proficient pilot but I'm excited anyway....

Cheers :D
 
pierre smith said:
Hi Craig,
The intent of the rule was originally directed at guys going into Mooneys, Cessna 210's and Bonanzas, etc. These airplanes have/had cowl flaps, retractable gear, C/S props and so on, really task-loading a C-150/172 grad with extra "stuff" to remember to cope with. Later, the rule included any airplane with 200 HP or more, even without retracts. (Even the lumbering old Stearman...)

I think we're getting a freebie by not having to comply with this rule (Transition training does do it though) because there are not many RV's that are NOT high performance airplanes in my opinion.

Regards,
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Pierre,

I think you are confusing a "complex endorsement" with the "high performance endorsement". They used to be one in the same but some time back the FAA split them. If I remember correctly, the reg USED to read, "retractable gear, controllable pitch prop, and over 200 hp" or something like that. Now the "complex endorsement" reads "retractable gear and controllable pitch prop". Thus if you have a 200 HP retract with a FP, as a friend's velocity has, you need neither endorsement. Up the HP and add a controllable pitch prop and you would need both endorsements.
 
This is just going from memory, but I believe the 'complex' endorsement includes flaps as well. High performance is really a joke, I got mine in a 182, which isn't much better a performer (and certainaly a bit easier to fly) than the 180HP CS prop Cardinal I fly all the time. I have complex time in Mooney, Piper Arrow, Cessna TR182, Glasair I RG, and few others, and by far the Hottest airplane (and the hardest to fly) was the 160HP Glasair.
 
Play by the rules

N941WR said:
I have always thought the "High Performance Endorsement" a bit of a joke.

For example, you need one to fly a Stearman because of the 220 hp engine most of them have, yet they only fly at around 95 mph (depending on rigging, engine, prop, etc.)

Here's the question:

If you build up an engine for your RV that is dyno tested to turn over 200 hp, do you still need this endorsement to fly it?
Click to expand...
Bill play by the rules is my advice. I don't know you flying experience and I don't know if you will have a Constant Speed prop in your RV and whether you have used one.

Nothing earth shaking about endorsement, but do you have a complex endorsement? If not get that one for sure. Why? well are you going to get insurance for your plane? Also it the legal thing to do.

As far as HP I think someone said call it 199 HP and you are good to go, but when or if you get a complex endorsement get it in a C182 and or 200HP arrow and get the high perf as well.

Edit
Joey said:
Has to be greater than 200, the Arrow won't do.
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Thanks you are right. As far as complex it is not needed of course because its fixed gear, but it might not be a bad idea if you have no controllable prop experience?
 
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osxuser said:
<snip>This is just going from memory, but I believe the 'complex' endorsement includes flaps as well.<snip>
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That's the way I understand it.

Flaps, Retracts, AND CS Prop for complex. (must have all three, any two of them together is not complex)

0-200HP is o.k. 201-???HP is "High Performance"

Anybody know if I'm correct on these figures?
 
RVAddict said:
That's the way I understand it.

Flaps, Retracts, AND CS Prop for complex. (must have all three, any two of them together is not complex)

0-200HP is o.k. 201-???HP is "High Performance"

Anybody know if I'm correct on these figures?
Click to expand...

I belive you are correct. Did my HP endorsement in a Cessna 195 (300hp), but didn't count as complex because it had fixed gear.
 
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My bad, bad memory

Should not use my memory: (far 61.31)

*******************************************************
(3) (e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a complex airplane (an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller; or, in the case of a seaplane, flaps and a controllable pitch propeller), unless the person has

&

(2) (f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with an engine of more than 200 horsepower), unless the person has --
*******************************************************

Complex has nothing to do with HP and High Performance is all about HP.

So all RV's are NOT complex (sorry my mistake) and all RV's are not high performance unless you have more than 200 HP.

RV-10 however is high performance.
 
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IMHO....never pass up the opportunity for upgrading your skills, and getting "fine-tuned"....regardless if you never anticipate the immediate need....if it is not a financial burden...
 
The reality

What does the FAA really know about 'High performance?" Not much in my opinion. RV's are high performance airplanes whether or not they meet the FAA's definition. My 100 H.P. Cassutt was a high performance airplane with a 220 MPH top speed and 185 cruise and a real trick to land.

Love our rockets.... :)
 
gmcjetpilot said:
Bill play by the rules is my advice. I don't know you flying experience and I don't know if you will have a Constant Speed prop in your RV and whether you have used one.
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Geo,

Not an issue for my O-290 powered FP RV-9, just asking the question to provoke some thought and discussion.
 
neophyte question:

are all endorsements 'permanent' or do you have to keep current like you must for a PPL, IFR, med and such?

If you earned a High Performance, or tail dragger or others - is it a one time thing?

thanks

John
 
Good point mate

N941WR said:
Geo,

Not an issue for my O-290 powered FP RV-9, just asking the question to provoke some thought and discussion.
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Bill you are right. I think anyone with out RV time should self evaluate and get RV specific transition training.
 
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Pictures?

N941WR said:
Geo,

Not an issue for my O-290 powered FP RV-9, just asking the question to provoke some thought and discussion.
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Hi Bill,
Sure would like to see some pictures of your FWF. Any completed weight estimate yet? We might have to come and visit you.

Regards,
 
pierre smith said:
Hi Bill,
Sure would like to see some pictures of your FWF. Any completed weight estimate yet? We might have to come and visit you.

Regards,
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Pierre,

Check the pictures on the engine page of my web site. If there is some that isn't on there that you are looking for, let me know and I'll post it.

You are more than welcome to come and visit. The thing is still in my basement :( but I hope to move it to the airport soon.
 
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