Mr Charles

Mr Charles

Well Known Member
My RV-4 is in need of a panel upgrade. I do aerobatics, and am working on my IFR ticket, and would like to be IFR (light) capable soon. Need to replace 6 pack, and am still flying old Garmin 195. Can't afford new everything! Would like D-100 EFIS for non-tumbling, but is there GPS moving map availability? Or must I upgrade to newer GPS and will it then interface to D-100? If not, are there affordable glass "units" that will provide EFIS/Moving map/HSI functions all in one?
 
A friend of mine recently put the AFS 3500 in his RV4. Nice fit. The D100 would also fit, but its only a primary flight display, no navigation info on the D100.

Check this out for how the 3500 works in the RV4

TravisPanel.JPG


Sorry about the HUGE pic size... I don't know how to make it any smaller.
 
Charles,

Welcome to the VAF forum!

As Bill recommended, going with one of the all-in-one panels is your best option. If you want to go Dynon, I would recommend a D100 EFIS and D10 EMS for your instruments.

For nav functions, the default seems to be Garmin 430W. Add to that a second radio and audio panel and you should be good to go.

The reason I recommend both the D100 EFIS and D10 EMS is that you can pull the HSI on D100 EFIS while still having the D10 EMS display the engine parameters. Also the D10 engine monitor is small and won't take up much room.

The other option is to go with a D10A EFIS and D10 EMS but with this you cannot display the EFIS, HSI, and engine instruments all at the same time.

Keep in mind, even if the engine parameters are not being displayed by any of the Dynon instruments, the system is still monitoring your engine and will alert you, should something go out of bounds.
 
Charles,

You've come to the right place if you want to read a lot about the various EFIS systems out there. You might just look through the various threads in the glass cockpit forums to get a feel for the systems out there. One thing you will find is that folks generally defend their own choices, and that most folks can't give you comparisons between various systems, as they have only flown one. There are significant exceptions to this rule, and you'll see numerous posts from those folks - and good ideas. Fitting an EFIS to your mission and price range can take a bit if time and research, but it is worth it to make sure you don't get more or less than you need - or spend more than you need to!

FYI - if you want IFR GPS capability, as Bill said, you'll have to get a Garmin or King navigator - none of the Experimental EFIS's have an IFR certified GS as part of their system (yet).

Paul
 
continuing education!

Thanks to everyone for replies. I wil check out the AFS 3500. What do you all think about a D100, stay with vans guages for the engine parameters, and updating to the Garmin 695? Will that give me light IFR capability?
 
You cannot file /G without an IFR certified enroute GPS. You can't shoot a GPS approach without an IFR approach certified GPS. So just a D100 or an 3500 with a 696 doesn't make you IFR legal. If you have a NAV radio in the plane then you can be IFR legal as long as you don't use the GPS for IFR navigation. There are no experimental EFIS companies that have IFR certified GPS units, so if you want to use GPS in IFR land, you are talking a 430W, 480, or something else.

I'd personally do a D180, which is a D100 plus engine monitoring in one box, for $800 more than a D100. I really believe electronic engine monitoring to be far superior to a few steam gauges.

Dynon now makes a system we call SkyView, in 7" and 10" sizes. This adds Synthetic vision and a moving map to our systems, so you have a lot of options in the market to research.
 
Having just done a glass panel upgrade in my RV4 to IFR capablility, here's my thoughts. While I put in a GRT 8.4" Sport, the new AFS units also do pretty much the same job. You can get them with built in GPS's although they are not TSO'd so you cannot use them to file /G or shoot any type of GPS approach. I did not go with a certified GPS and opted to limit myself to doing VOR, LOC, ILS navigation and approaches with an SL30. These two EFIS's can integrate with an ARINC module to give you GPSS & GPSV from a Trutrak or Trio autopilot. The CDI is displayed on the EFIS so no need for a separate unit and the SL30 is a fantastic Nav/Comm that allows you to display the standby radial for intersections and fixes.

Both the GRT and AFS units will give you the ability to do a triple split screen so you can display your flight instruments, map, and engine data all at one time.

If you really want IFR GPS capability you could probably fit an older GX55 or GX60 in the panel. The RV4 panel is very small so it makes putting into the panel a GNS430W difficult and if you go with the smaller sized EFIS, it will be difficult to read all the data it is displaying with the triple split screen.

ogxvye.jpg
 
Glass options

Thanks. Financially, I realistically need to do this in small bites. I am just starting my IFR training (written passed ~2mo ago:) ) Thinkin' at this point: similiar approach as you, maybe AFS or GRT or similiar, forget the certified GPS for now, maybe add later as I can afford or if experience indicates advantage (i.e. cost/benefit). At this point, my "missions" are 95% local/fun/fly-in type flying, with 4-5 long cross country flights per year. I average ~150 hrs/yr. Not sure I even need IFR, but trying to "put the polish on the apple!" Questions: Are the AFS/GRT etc OK for aerobatics? (this was the starting point for panel upgrade--can't keep gyro instruments alive!) Will the SL30 need to be a certified unit, and can I install it myself? Are there used ones on the market? If I later upgrade for GPS approaches, is that just a matter of a certified GPS navigator and charts/data/plates? And, if I use a "certified navigator," (is that the GX55/ GX60 you mention) will the EFIS display (from AFS/GRT etc) interface with and function as the primary display for the GPS nav data?
Thanks for help.
Charles


Capflyer said:
Having just done a glass panel upgrade in my RV4 to IFR capablility, here's my thoughts. While I put in a GRT 8.4" Sport, the new AFS units also do pretty much the same job. You can get them with built in GPS's although they are not TSO'd so you cannot use them to file /G or shoot any type of GPS approach. I did not go with a certified GPS and opted to limit myself to doing VOR, LOC, ILS navigation and approaches with an SL30. These two EFIS's can integrate with an ARINC module to give you GPSS & GPSV from a Trutrak or Trio autopilot. The CDI is displayed on the EFIS so no need for a separate unit and the SL30 is a fantastic Nav/Comm that allows you to display the standby radial for intersections and fixes.

Both the GRT and AFS units will give you the ability to do a triple split screen so you can display your flight instruments, map, and engine data all at one time.

If you really want IFR GPS capability you could probably fit an older GX55 or GX60 in the panel. The RV4 panel is very small so it makes putting into the panel a GNS430W difficult and if you go with the smaller sized EFIS, it will be difficult to read all the data it is displaying with the triple split screen.

ogxvye.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Yes.

I have a Dynon 100 with the HSI page on the right third of the screen and also the HS-34 unit that selects my Nav source...Nav1/2 (430W/SL-30) or GPS 1/ GPS2 ...430W and 496...they all show up on the screen....the nav info in green and the GPS info is magenta/purple-ish. Loc and GS are shown as well as LPV GPS approaches...the GRT's and AFS perform the same/better,

Best,
 
One more thought since you are working on your Instrument ticket now - you might end up very disappointed if you don't plan an IFR GPS from the start. The "system" is changing very fast, and even just within the past couple of years, approaches that don't use GPS are rapidly disappearing. We overhauled Louise's panel about 2.5 years ago, as she was finishing up her IFR ticket, and decide to "save a little money" at that time and forgo the IFR GPS. That didn't seem like a problem - she had dual VOR and ILS capability, but it was tough figuring out how to shoot three different types of approaches at local airports for the check ride - and that near a major metropolitan area. Of the multiple instrument approaches at College Station (KCLL), for instance, they ALL require either a GPS or DME these days.

It's getting harder and harder to find places to file without an IFR GPS these days.

Paul
 
Just for apples-to-apples, I believe the AFS system displayed also included EMS info (engine instruments). The comparable Dynon unit on a budget would be the D-180 (which I have); to connect to the Garmin 430 for IFR you would also need the HS-34 (to convert the ARINC signals and to allow you to dial in course information for the HSI).

That is, of course, "last generation" equipment. It approaches "best budget" for IFR, but if you want all the bells and whistles you need to go with SkyView (Dynon) or one of the other vendors' newer offerings.
 
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