WyoDave

WyoDave

Well Known Member
Okay, so I know I?ve developed some bad habits:eek:. And I?m working to address them as I identify them. But here?s the deal. I?m a new pilot. Got my PPL a little over a year ago. Got TD training this past fall, and started flying my RV-6 (bought flying, built by Joel Spray) a month after that. But a particular habit I?m concerned about is this:
Most of my flying is local. What I call ?FNPR? flying. In the words of Forest Gump, ?For No Particular Reason?. Just for the joy of it (and it truly is a joy:)). When flying FNPR, I?m vaguely aware (at best) of my primary flight instruments. Now, I?m very aware of the engine instruments. And I?m aware of where I could set her down if the engine quit. But, as for flying, I just look out the window and fly. If I want to dip down for a closer look at some elk, I do. If the winds are VERY nice and I want to climb up to circle around a mountain peak, I do. If I want to cruise along a river to see if I may spot a moose, then that?s what I do. If all the flight instruments were upside down, it would be awhile before I even noticed.
Now, this is all a lot of fun. But I also intend to be safe. My question is: By not paying more attention to my flight instruments, am I flirting with disaster:eek:? Should I make it point to be constantly aware of what all my flight instruments are telling me, even when it is a clear, calm, sunny day? I think that I fly safely. I also know that my self confidence and positive thinking have no affect on the laws of physics. So, I?m hoping to benefit from the advice of you with more wisdom and experience. You steered me right on purchasing my -6. So what do you say now?

PS-I plan to take a course in Mountain Flying and some basic acro within the next 2 months.
 
The VSI, ALT, Horizon and Compass can safely be ignored during casual "out of the windows" flying. The only thing you should try to look at is the ASI... because speed is your life, remember that...

As for mountain flying, I can't say much, no bumps around here... but I've heard a few horror stories about that...
 
Monitor the engine

llavalle said:
The VSI, ALT, Horizon and Compass can safely be ignored during casual "out of the windows" flying. The only thing you should try to look at is the ASI... because speed is your life, remember that...
Click to expand...

I agree that number 1 is airspeed although I can tell a 5 kts change in airspeed just from the change in engine and wind noise. I do religiously monitor the engine instruments. You can often tell engine problems before they happen my looking for changes in RPM, EGT, CHT, or Oil temp/Pressure.

The flight instruments are nice to gaze at to verify they are still working, but as long as I am looking out the window on a clear day, the "real" horizon is the primary flight instrument (plus you get the traffic and terrain super improsed on the display)
 
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Enjoyment.....

......is the main reason we fly, David. I agree that the engine instruments need more monitoring than the flight instruments for your kind of "FNPR" flying.

What I would suggest, as I do for all the guys who come here, is to fly to the skill levels of the next, higher rating: that is, the Commercial pilot level, to improve your flying precisely. You, now, are the only critic of your flying.

Go on a short cross-country, fifty miles or so, and see if you can maintain altitude within plus or minus 50' and heading to within 5 degrees, the commercial standards, all the while keeping the ball centered. There seems to be a tendency to fly any way we want when nobody's inside watching, like your CFI. When you land or take off, keep the centerline between your legs as well...precision.:)

Enjoy,
 
The little ball

Don't forget to keep an eye on that little slip ball.

Keep every turn coordinated, especially when in the pattern. Soon enough you won't even realize it you are keeping ti coordinated at every turn.
 
I would say you are actually developing a good habit.

I see too many pilots spending way too much time looking at the panel instead of outside the airplane.
 
As a former full-time CFI, all I can say is, "I wish I had had you as a primary student!" :) I seem to recall many hours spent flying VFR with little stickers covering everything but the ASI, trying to force my students to look outside once in a while.

Even now, having "moved up the ladder" so to speak, I must say I'm often amazed at how many "professional" pilots seem to have a heck of a time flying a decent visual approach without a bunch of fancy gadgets telling them where to point the airplane.

Having said that, however, the comments above about coordination and precise control are right on, and I'd suggest starting work on an instrument rating as soon as time and finances allow. It really helps complete your skill set as a well-rounded aviator. Keep it up!
 
I agree with Milt and Brian. You have developed a good habit. If you can improve on it so that when you are not maneuvering you are able to keep the airplane trimmed and stay very close to a selected altitude while still looking outside the majority of the time. you will be way outperforming the majority of pilots that have a lot more flight time than you.
 
Attitude Indicator

If you are looking out the windshield, you are consulting the world's largest attitude indicator and flight instrument.
 
Pick a skill to improve

I agree with everything that has been said above. However, as a professional pilot and someone to simply enjoys flying, I have made it a point to ensure that my skills are continually improving. On every flight, no matter what the reason, I try to find some skill to improve upon. Maybe it's a more thorough walk-around, or more precise speed control in the pattern, nailing an ILS approach, or maintaining altitude to within 50' without reference the instruments. The key is to set high standards for yourself, and keep working on them. You can do this, and still fly around the patch for pure enjoyment.

Keep it up!

DD
 
WyoDave said:
Okay, so I know I?ve developed some bad habits:eek:. And I?m working to address them as I identify them. But here?s the deal. I?m a new pilot. Got my PPL a little over a year ago. Got TD training this past fall, and started flying my RV-6 (bought flying, built by Joel Spray) a month after that. But a particular habit I?m concerned about is this:
Most of my flying is local. What I call ?FNPR? flying. In the words of Forest Gump, ?For No Particular Reason?. Just for the joy of it (and it truly is a joy:)). When flying FNPR, I?m vaguely aware (at best) of my primary flight instruments. Now, I?m very aware of the engine instruments. And I?m aware of where I could set her down if the engine quit. But, as for flying, I just look out the window and fly. If I want to dip down for a closer look at some elk, I do. If the winds are VERY nice and I want to climb up to circle around a mountain peak, I do. If I want to cruise along a river to see if I may spot a moose, then that?s what I do. If all the flight instruments were upside down, it would be awhile before I even noticed.
Now, this is all a lot of fun. But I also intend to be safe. My question is: By not paying more attention to my flight instruments, am I flirting with disaster:eek:? Should I make it point to be constantly aware of what all my flight instruments are telling me, even when it is a clear, calm, sunny day? I think that I fly safely. I also know that my self confidence and positive thinking have no affect on the laws of physics. So, I?m hoping to benefit from the advice of you with more wisdom and experience. You steered me right on purchasing my -6. So what do you say now?

PS-I plan to take a course in Mountain Flying and some basic acro within the next 2 months.
Click to expand...

If you have bad habits, than I guess I'm in trouble as well. I even land without looking at the ASI, well I do at about 2000ft out to make sure I'm slow enough. Yup, I generally stay high in speed until the last bit. I force myself to look at the engine guages every once in a while. But to be honest, if you fly by the seat of your pants, which is what we are doing. Than you should be able to smell and feel the engine as well.

Don't fret, your doing fine. At least when it comes time for you to think about panel upgrades are build another plane, you will be saying, to heck with all that high priced junk for in the panel. I look out the window.

YOu will like the mountain flying, way fun.
 
Beer30? said:
I agree with everything that has been said above. However, as a professional pilot and someone to simply enjoys flying, I have made it a point to ensure that my skills are continually improving. On every flight, no matter what the reason, I try to find some skill to improve upon. Maybe it's a more thorough walk-around, or more precise speed control in the pattern, nailing an ILS approach, or maintaining altitude to within 50' without reference the instruments. The key is to set high standards for yourself, and keep working on them. You can do this, and still fly around the patch for pure enjoyment.

Keep it up!
DD
Click to expand...


I do the same thing, except the only IFR I do is over railroad tracks, rivers, and roads. I try to mix up my flying to hone in on skills as well. Yesterday was a windy day. Gust to 24. winds normal at 15. I went to the big airport and did some fun landings, the base was real fun. I managed to keep perfect alignment in the pattern. I even did a few landings with the wind behind me.

My neighbor was flying to seattle and he went accross the way and I could here him talk to another pilot. The other pilot was asked if he was going to fly, his response was, the winds are too much. I thought, what a shame.
 
Acro

Flying will improve our "Oneness" with the airplane by a huge margin. You'll be looking at the ASI more often and the rest of the instruments less..The reason I think is because you do a lot of uncoordinated flight and you can feel a lot more.

But you'll also know that you can stall at any attitude and almost any airpseed..So those things you need to pay attention to you will.

Now if you really want to be sharp..Give yourself a year or so of VFR and acro then start on your instrument rating...do it in your airplane.

Suddenly you'll realise you can barely fly at all..:)

Frank
 
I think you are probably OK. My RV-6 has steam guages in the panel. A friend of mine has a RV-6 that has an O-360 and a constant speed prop. Mine has an O-320 and fixed pitch propeller. His airplane also has an EFIS. He let me fly his airplane. I wanted to experience the bigger engine and constant speed propeller. The real part of my story is, I flew the plane for several minutes before I began taking any flight information from the EFIS. It never did get natural for me. I usually fly my approach at 80 mph in my airplane. On base leg with the flaps down, I was searching for IAS on the EFIS. There it was 80 mph, dead nuts. I knew then I'd connected with my airplane.
 
Take some time to improve your emergency skills i.e. engine out. Know your planes best L/D. Take some glider training. Low and slow kills.
 
Carefull there!

What you describe is exactly what kills many pilots, good ones. Thinking you know your plane well enough to just point will get you into trouble sometime. You are familiar with the moose spin aren't you. My version was to try the same tight turn in the mountains at altitude. The plane could not do it and I ended up recovering below tree level. I am older and a bit more cautious about trusting my seat of the pants flying now. The aerobatic training and recovery from unusual attitudes helped save my bacon for another day. I have an AOA that has been a great training aid and has shortened the learning curve for how G loads steep turns and all the factors add up to cause a stall. You can calculate the factors but not as fast as you would like when you are running out of altitude in a canyon. I would recommend an AOA as a great safety and training device. Have fun!!! Watch your air speed like others have posted.:rolleyes:
 
Yeah that stuff!

Dave, these guys are all right on. I know your attitude and it doesn't have much to do with gyros. Listen to the beerman. Pick a chore once in awhile and make yourself better at it. Maybe start with course/alt hold and attitude ref in case you roll into an "ozone layer" while avoiding a "moose stall".
 
I expected some good advice...

...but between the post on this forum and the email, looks like I?ve got 50 or so years of work to do.:rolleyes:
That little slip ball thingy and maintaining desired altitude were both mentioned. While I don?t fixate on them, I have made a point to try to make those (along with appropriate speed) second nature. More and more, it?s getting to where when I scan everything they are usually where I intended.
Instrument training is in the future, but a year or 2 away. In part due to lack of local availability. This is Pinedale, WY, you know.
However, Mountain Flying and some basic acro are available just over the Wyoming Range in Afton, from the same guy that did my TD training. In 18 years as a test pilot for Aviat, he seems to have acquired a bit of knowledge about tail draggers, mountain flying, and such.:cool: I had also planned to get him to drill me on emergency procedures (maybe make that an annual refresher). Evaluating yourself is good, but sometimes you need an unbiased opinion.
Along with all this, I keep myself reminded that no amount of skill, knowledge, or experience will protect me from poor judgement. And that?s up to nobody but me! A man?s got to know his limitations. Wait, didn?t somebody already say that?
Thanks a Bunch!:D
 
I took the mountain flying course from the Colorado Pilots Association. Great course.

Get whatever instruction you need but start making cross-country trips. Use flight following. Go to controlled fields.

You have easy day trips to Jackson Hole (Grand Tetons), Rapid City (Mt Rushmore), Hulette (Devils Tower) just to name a few.
 
Cross Countries?

Yeah, once in awhile I fly cross country. So far, mostly to see my daughters in school (Laramie and Sheridan). Or chasing my son around to ski races (mostly uncontrolled airports)(btw, he medalled, twice, this weekend in GS at Red Lodge:D). On occasion, I fly into really big, complicated air spaces. You know, like Casper, WY. You gotta call the tower, and stuff like that.:eek: They even tell you which runway to land on! So far, they seem pretty tolerant of country bubbas like me. What will I do when my wife and I fly down to KLBB (Lubbock, TX), a really big, busy place.:eek: I'll study up before we go.
But yeah, thanks everyone, really!:)
 
I've been thinking about this post the past few days. With flying 20hrs in 2 weeks. Trying to catch up. Weither can be bad like today. Doubt I can fly,3/4 vis with 100 ovc. yuk.

Anyway, this is what I do and I suggest you pick it up. I scan left to right for traffic, on my way back I lower my eyes and do a quick scan of the panel. Works for me. With my steam guages, I very quickly can spot engine temp, oil pressure, by where the arm is. Airspeed gets looked at very quickly as well. With 300+ hrs. a year, this is automatic and I don't even think about it, it happens.
 
Aerobatics

I have to give a plug here to the aerobatic Instructors out there-
This will really show you what these RV?s are made of-
Even if you don?t plan on doing aerobatics in you ship. The awareness of initial spin training and accelerated stalls are worth (looking up gold market prices):eek::eek:
Also that mountain flight training come this summer, With high density Alt in Wyoming take note of the difference as opposed to now. Performance in any ship will be a whole new ball game.
Be carful out there
 
Dave, There's a guy working for Sublette road&bridge named John Haehn. He built like the first RV4 slider, N23PW, (County 23, Pinedale Wyoming) John knows as much about flying RV's in the rockies as anyone, I think. He taught me a bunch when I worked for him. Ask him about dogfighting RV4 against Pitts. RV smokes Pitts.
 
RV smokes Pitts?

Thanks, Aerhed. I'll have to look this guy up.
As for RV smokin' Pitts? I suppose it depends on whose flyin what. I'm sure I could smoke either one of them.:cool:
As in "smokin' hole in the ground".:eek:
 
In the military, the type of flying you described is called "Contact Flying" and is the first thing taught in UPT.

It is completely legitimate, and is in fact safer than folks who spend too much time with their heads "inside the cockpit."

If you decide to transition to cross country on a flight plan, or IFR flight, you will learn different techniques. A problem you might encounter after years of contact flying is difficulty in convincing yourself to focus on the instruments rather than looking for peeks through intermittent clouds. Really, you should focus 90% your scan based on the type of flight plan (or none) that you file.
 
Contact flying

I believe George Carlin used to call that a "near hit". Ever heard of Arch flying? Google "Arch flying cowboy" and see what you get.
 
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