TCONROY

TCONROY

Well Known Member
Looking for some insight here. We are building an RV-7 and plan to order the engine this summer at Oshkosh (if we get the b/a Hartzell for the package price). I keep hearing great things about the Whirlwind 200RV and the new 300RV as well. Many have told me the Whirlwind props are less expensive than Hartzell but I can't seem to figure out how. The Hartzell on Van's website is $7,160 whereas the 200RV is $8,665 (Whirlwind website). I also understand there is some extra drilling/fabricating for the Hartzell prop whereas the 200RV is pretty much ready to bolt on with the spinner (is that right?).

So am I missing something or is the 200RV actually more expensive?

Really uneducated about engines/props so any advise or suggestions are welcomed!
 
I believe Van still offers the $1000 discount on engine / prop combo orders and usually an extra smaller deal at the shows. Free shipping from Lycoming for instance.
Hard to beat. When I purchased, there was no less expensive option for new hardware available (and you can bet I looked hard, too) ;)

In regards to the spinner, there is cutting and fitting to do, but it should be similar for any prop, fixed or constant speed unless Whirlwind is supplying their own custom fit unit (I don't know but I would be surprised if they are).
 
Don't forget to look at maintenance intervals and frequency of unanticipated service, contributors to overall cost.

That said, cost is secondary to the laws of physics. Ask about a formal vibration survey done with your particular engine choice.
 
Another factor to consider is the weight of the props with an RV7. 7's tend to be tail heavy to the point of limiting baggage capability with low fuel without a heavy prop on the nose. Study this if you are planning to take trips....
 
DanH said:
Don't forget to look at maintenance intervals and frequency of unanticipated service, contributors to overall cost.

That said, cost is secondary to the laws of physics. Ask about a formal vibration survey done with your particular engine choice.
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I agree with Dan on this point too. Research will likely show you that the least expensive option from Van (a Lyc & Hartzell ) also meets the maintenance and vibrations testing criteria.

Hard to turn down that overall package.
 
keep the tail light...

Take a close look at your projected CG and tail weight... if you have a lighter engine and a light prop the tail will end up pretty heavy to start and will get really heavy with a full baggage area. A light tail is much more enjoyable in my experience.

After paint, my -7 is about 1110 with a 63 pound tail.
 
rzbill said:
In regards to the spinner, there is cutting and fitting to do, but it should be similar for any prop, fixed or constant speed unless Whirlwind is supplying their own custom fit unit (I don't know but I would be surprised if they are).
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They do, there is no cutting or fitting to do.
Erich
 
Whirlwind is more expensive. It is also much lighter and may perform marginally better.

The spinner is completely done and requires no work from you beyond paint.

The current overhaul interval on the 200RV is 750 hours (and increasing as WW gains experience). Mine was beginning to sling some grease at 450 hours, so I had it done early. Whirlwind volunteered to prorate the service, so it only cost me ~$350 for the overhaul and inspection. If my father-in-law's experience is any indicator, an overhaul on a certified prop is an order of magnitude more expensive.

I would choose the Whirlwind again in a heartbeat. My criteria may not be yours.

Best,
Guy
 
You can probably also get a "deal" on a WW prop at Oshkosh. I got about $1000 off a few years ago.
 
Thank you for all the great replies! If we decide not to get the Van's package deal, how long can we delay getting the prop? Is it required to be in-place to properly fit the cowling and set edge distances from the cowling to the prop backing plate? We'd like to avoid getting the engine and having the prop sit for a year while the firewall forward and the many other final finishing tasks are completed.
 
Cheaper than Hartzell Composite

If you are using the sam james cowl and a prop spacer, then the prop mass may be a consideration. Then the composites come into play (-15 to 17#)- in that case' the Whirlwind is lower cost, even considering the $1000 discount with Vans. The nickel leading edge is an advantage for the composites as it is very tough. I asked about repair from small rocks and stones and the rep smiled and said it breaks them!

I wanted the composite for higher G margin with the extension. How much I don't know yet, as the inertia measurement on the prop is not done yet.

HydroGuy will tell you, as will others with data, that the RV200 is efficient as the blended airfoil aluminum. Jury is out on the Hartzell composite's efficiency.

Note DanH's question on vibratory excitation, it may be of interest.

Experimental aircraft building is certainly fun and educational.
 
the 200RV props were roughly $1000 more than the Vans priced Hartzell BA props back in 2009. BUT I did not need a spinner kit $220 and got a discount on the governor saved about $150 (i think). SO....

I got this beauty. I almost took it in the house instead of leaving it in the shop.


I think the performance is roughly the same between the two props. Hard to compare without swapping and testing both props on the same plane on the same day. During racing I run mine at 2600, while the Hartzell folks are at 2700. I'm competitive, my technique cost me more time than the prop.

My plane was designed for the James Extended cowl, so I was always looking at a prop spacer. I assume the 17# weight savings of the Whirlwind hanging on the end of the spacer is a significant benefit to the crank stresses.

 
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Hartzell 7605 (Composite) efficiency

With regard to Bill's post above:
HydroGuy will tell you, as will others with data, that the RV200 is efficient as the blended airfoil aluminum. Jury is out on the Hartzell composite's efficiency.
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My display leader has just swappped his 72" 7666 Hartzell for the 76" 7605 Composite Blades prop (RV-8). We did some comparative testing before/after, and also have some indicative data from Hartzell. Fitted to a 180HP Carb'd engine.

Subjectively:
  1. The prop is noticeably smoother / faster throttle response
  2. Much (~10% according to 1 graph) increased thrust at low speed e.g taxiing needs less RPM. Despite having more HP, I now have difficulty hanging in Formation over the tops of loops (I'm using the 7497)
  3. Interestingly, required rudder trim tab adjusted for cruise
Actual data, when flown against a 200HP IO-360 in same weather / weights:
  1. Saves ~15lbs in weight
  2. From 60-160KIAS, the 7605 needed ~1" more MAP to stick with. Broadly this equates, using typical Lycoming power curves to ~8HP
  3. From ~170KIAS this falls off to zero
  4. Cruise speeds, using same RPM/MAP/FF are incressed by 3-5K
  5. Hartzell data shows the 7605 76" ~1% increased Propellor Efficiency over the 74" 7497
In efficiency terms, it appears a significant increase when using the same RPM/MAP. However, no data yet, but initial impressions are that the composite would benefit further from being run at a lower RPM than the metal.

NB if you do get the 7605, ensure the Coarse Pitch stop is altered for the RV - as stated elsewhere here, you would not want it contacting the cowl :eek:

If there any specific questions maybe PM me, and I'll split this off to a separate thread.
 
WW 200RV

Hey Trevor,

I have one on my current 7 and bought another for the new 7 with a 390. The prop is incredibly smooth. I had it balanced and it is even smoother.

A while back there was a group buy for the WW. Maybe it is time for Doug to see if they will do it again. I believe the price was a wash with the Hartzell after that. They also offered a discount on the governor.

They are a bolt on deal with no special work needed. Service intervals are increasing. The WW people are great to work with too.

As far as CG goes, I think it is a non issue between the two props. I ran all kinds of numbers and was still with in limits with a full baggage compartment, even with fuel down to 3 gal per side. FYI, my personal arrival fuel limit is around 5 gallons per side.

You won't go wrong with either one but the WW is a great looking and performing prop!!
 
RV7Guy said:
A while back there was a group buy for the WW. Maybe it is time for Doug to see if they will do it again. I believe the price was a wash with the Hartzell after that. They also offered a discount on the governor.
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We're in the market for a prop, and decided on the 200RV so I'm in if we can get another group buy going.
 
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