tomcostanza

Well Known Member
Is anyone parking at a tie-down? Where do you live (weather)? Are there any problems?

Where I live, there is about a 400% price difference between a tie-down and a hangar, and I'm trying to decide if it's worth the cost, and how much I need to budget.

Thanks,
Tom
7-A Wings
 
Personnally I can't imagine a person spending the time and money involved in building an RV and then tying it down outside. Besides the normal exposure to the elements, a home-built is a strong attraction to strangers. You have no way of controlling people who may crawl all over you airplane just for curiosity sake.
Mel...DAR
 
It also seems like having it outside would make it tough to do all the little tweaking that will no doubt be necessary.
 
Insurance

You will get a discount on your insurance bill if it is in a hangar.

Kent
 
Outside? no way

You wouldn't leave your kids outside?
You won't leave your RV outside either....unless you have to.
Plan ahead.......seems like you are by asking the question!
RV's don't take up much room either...sometimes you can share a hangar to keep costs down. or find an airport that will let you build a hangar for your RV.
Good Luck,
Bob Martin
RV-6
Louisa, VA
 
Hanger

I've heard that you never really finish building. I've found that to be kind of true. You also need it inside for routine maintenance and annual inspections. If you can find a hanger, I highly recommend it. But then at $150/month, I seem to have a bargin compared to other parts of the country/state.
 
Each to his own, but I've owned airplanes for over 35 years, and at this point if I couldn't have a hangar, I'd wouldn't own the plane. An old friend once told me, " you pay for a hangar whether you have one or not". He wasn't far wrong.
Taking care of the plane is a royal pain if you do it outside in any climate.

Bob Severns
 
szicree said:
It also seems like having it outside would make it tough to do all the little tweaking that will no doubt be necessary.
I'll second this comment, and will add... One of the major benefits to building an RV is to be able to do your own maintenance. I did most of the work on my last airplane, and I couldn't have done it without a hangar. The hangar gives you room to work and store parts, as well as a place for your tools. Sometimes you will really have to take things apart... without a hangar you will be forced to put it all back together at the end of each maintenance session (day), even though the task might not be done. IMHO... you will regret not having a hangar.

You can always offset your cost by putting two airplanes in one hangar or subleasing space to someone who needs space to store parts.
 
hangar

My RV6A will fit into the corner of a 35x30 (approx) hangar behind a Luscombe 8E. Look around and see if anyone would like to half hangar rent or take in some $$ if they own the hangar. You would be surprised at how well plane will fit. In our situation there is room for another RV6A in the other corner!
 
IMHO owning an airplane and not hangaring is unthinkable. I hangar even on trips, if one is available.

Roberta
 
Aviation Elitist

Mel said:
Personnally I can't imagine a person spending the time and money involved in building an RV and then tying it down outside.
Mel...DAR

OK, then would you spend half a million cash (new Mooney) or 3/4 million (Malibu), or over a million (Baron) on and airplane and keep it outside? If you can't imagine those type of people, I can introduce you. Does this make them crazy or just practical?

I hear this statement a lot and most of the folks that utter it don't live in the Northeast or near a Metro area where it's not only the cost, but also the availability of a hangar. Or they don't own a million dollar Malibu that has a 43 foot wingspan, larger than most standard hangars. The waiting list for hangars in my area is in YEARS. Oh, well I guess I won't buy or build a plane until a hangar becomes available.

http://members.cox.net/rvator/id55.htm
143e2690.jpg
 
Not so!

kentb said:
You will get a discount on your insurance bill if it is in a hangar. Kent
This is blatantly WRONG! At least with USAIG for insured in the North East. I have queried them on this and they have stated that it does not make a difference. I suggest you find our from your insurance underwriter first.
 
Passionate

tomcostanza said:
Is anyone parking at a tie-down? Where do you live (weather)? Are there any problems?

Where I live, there is about a 400% price difference between a tie-down and a hangar, and I'm trying to decide if it's worth the cost, and how much I need to budget.

Thanks,
Tom
7-A Wings

As you can see from the responses on this thread, some are passionate about a hangar being a "must have." Certainly my name is on the list for a hangar at my airport as it has been for the last few years. If however when time comes for me to move to the airport and I'm still on the waiting list; well my beloved project will have to sit outside.

Folks have primer wars, expose themselves to carcinogens chemicals to etch, alodine, and then prime, then insist that the plane MUST be hangared. That--makes no sense!

That obsessive thinking about an inanimate object is the kind of thinking that gets people killed. It is the kind of thinking that makes one try to bring a beloved aircraft back to the airport trying to save it and coming up short of the runway, rather than just putting it down in an appropriate clearing ahead. In the former scenario, trying to save the plane, all is lost, plane & passengers. In the latter, the plane is totaled but the passengers walk away.

I always remember what an early instructor said to me; "If you ever run in problems while airborne and have to put down, think -the insurance company now owns the plane. Don't kill yourself trying to save the plane."
 
I always remember what an early instructor said to me; "If you ever run in problems while airborne and have to put down, think -the insurance company now owns the plane. Don't kill yourself trying to save the plane."[/QUOTE]


Another way to look at the proper order of importance is, "Skin, Tin, Ticket".

I am fortunate to base my RV at an airport where the hangar rates are not bad and owning a hangar is not a pipe dream. I own my hangar and am continually reminded of how fortunate I am, especially after reading this thread.

I think it is agreed that all of us, if given the option, would prefer to hangar our airplanes. The bare naked truth, however, is that some RV'ers are not as lucky as others, be it financially or from an availability standpoint. That should not prevent them from striking out after that dream of building/owning an airplane.

If you can't swing a hangar at this time for whatever reason, tie her down and invest in a good canopy cover. As to maintenance, offer to rent hangar space from a buddy for a day or two while he has is airplane out of the hangar on a trip, or the weather is such that keeping his outside for a day or two won't be a problem. Perhaps the local FBO would rent out a corner of their hangar on a short time basis.

Opportunities will come your way eventually.
 
Priorities

painless said:
I always remember what an early instructor said to me; "If you ever run in problems while airborne and have to put down, think -the insurance company now owns the plane. Don't kill yourself trying to save the plane."


Another way to look at the proper order of importance is, "Skin, Tin, Ticket".

I am fortunate to base my RV at an airport where the hangar rates are not bad and owning a hangar is not a pipe dream. I own my hangar and am continually reminded of how fortunate I am, especially after reading this thread.

I think it is agreed that all of us, if given the option, would prefer to hangar our airplanes. The bare naked truth, however, is that some RV'ers are not as lucky as others, be it financially or from an availability standpoint. That should not prevent them from striking out after that dream of building/owning an airplane.

If you can't swing a hangar at this time for whatever reason, tie her down and invest in a good canopy cover. As to maintenance, offer to rent hangar space from a buddy for a day or two while he has is airplane out of the hangar on a trip, or the weather is such that keeping his outside for a day or two won't be a problem. Perhaps the local FBO would rent out a corner of their hangar on a short time basis.

Opportunities will come your way eventually.[/QUOTE]
No offense, but that should be "Skin, Ticket, Tin". Save your life first, save your license second, save the plane last. Think about it, it makes sense.

Whether to hangar or not? That would depend upon where you live. If you live where there is huge snowfall or brutal hail, it would be unwise to leave your RV outside. If the weather is pretty mild, probably not that big of a deal.
 
I live in LA, possibly the hardest place in the US to get a hanger. A Tee hanger at WHP goes for >$400/month and a Box is >$600. I still say it's worth it. I'll be building in some friends hangers for a while, but eventually I plan on getting my own. For the record, my dad's C177 is parked in a tiedown, and it's a PITA to work on when we have to. He won't spring for the hanger, but I think it's invaluable.
 
Plan B

"The waiting list for hangars in my area is in YEARS. Oh, well I guess I won't buy or build a plane until a hangar becomes available."

Perfect!
1.Put your name on the list.
2.Start building in your garage/basement/shed/kitchen/etc.
3.Store parts under beds/sofas/closets/etc.
4.By the time you are ready for the hangar, the hangar should be ready for you!

Worked for me and I will be moving into my hangar next week for final assembly.

Bruce -9
 
Thanks all

Thanks to all for your opinions. In the end, "You pay your money and you take your choice."

To Build9A from Florida who pays $150/month for a hangar, I HATE YOU! ;) I'll pay that much for a tie-down by the time my plane is finished. A T-hangar at Trenton-Mercer County is currently $525/month (if you can GET one). Add insurance and I'll pay over $8K/year before I start the engine.

Sharing a hangar was a good suggestion. I plan to explore that.

Thanks again to all, and have a safe and prosperous new year.

-Tom
 
wait until you get to pay unsecured property tax on your rented hangar....

a friend of mine rents a spot in a guy's hangar and my friend gets sent the tax bill.

I knew a guy that left his RV-4 outside at Flabob for at least 10 yrs. I see at least one outside at Santa Monica, think I saw one under a shade hangar at Ryan Field. FWIW
 
NJ/North East hangar/tiedown decision

tomcostanza said:
..... A T-hangar at Trenton-Mercer County is currently $525/month (if you can GET one). Add insurance and I'll pay over $8K/year before I start the engine.

Sharing a hangar was a good suggestion. I plan to explore that.

Tom,

Didn't know you were also in the NJ area. Central Jersey(47N) where I'm based is supposed to begin new hangar & taxiway construction soon. So you may want to consider putting your name on the list there. Be warned however that soon has been the last two years and the new hangars will probably be more than the current $400/month that the older T hangars cost. I use to have my Cardinal in a hangar at Princeton (39N), however basing you aircraft 45 minutes away from where you live, as opposed to 10 minutes (47N) will make a big difference in your flying.

I actually use my (current and future RV-10) aircraft to "go places" and not just for $100 hamburgers. I just didn't see the logic in driving 45 minutes to the airport, spending 20 minutes pre-flight, and then 10 minutes to get the plane out of the hangar. For a one hour flight my door-to-door time was almost 2.5 hours--I might as well drive all the way! This was the logic that led me back to Central Jersey (47N) even though my Cardinal is now outside. $400 inside hangar 45 minutes away, or $80 drive thru tie down outside, 10 minutes away? For me the choice was the clear, especially since USAIG did not offer any discounts for me being in the hangar.

Aside from the other intangibles and convenience of having a hangar, you have also seen that from an economic perspective, at least in this area (and especially at full service towered airports around here such as TTN, MMU, CDW, etc) it makes more sense to keep the plane outside. $8000 per year in hangar costs, less the tie down cost, and you could repaint the plane EVERY year, outsource all the maintenance and still come out ahead. This is especially so with a certificated aircraft where you CANNOT do the bulk of the maintenance. I'll continue to build my plane in the garage and when time comes to move to the airport, I'll again weigh the pros and cons of a having a hangar--assuming one is even available. I do NOT consider it to be a MUST HAVE however. If I did, it would have been a waste of time etching, alodining and priming.
 
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Two for one

Did any one mention these guys? http://www.armaerospace.com/index.html

Any opinions?

To address your hanger issue. I love having a hanger. It is like a little club house. Put a little frig, coffee maker, TV/radio, couch and you can hide out from the wife or girlfriend. The down side is $$$$. I love being able to work on the plane and leave it unbuttoned till I am finished. As far as the airplane lift? I think it is marginal to not possible in many small T-hangers, but more over if your parked on the top, it will be a hassle having to move the hanger-mates plane out and yours down. I see it working more if you own both planes, and you can choose which plane is on the lift at any given time. IF you can even get a hanger you are lucky. In some parts of the country hangers are not even available at $400. So the hanger lift may pay for itself but it is a the better part of $10,000 (I recall around $7,000-$8,000). So saving $200 it pays for itself in 3-4 years.

OUTSIDE: The first plane I owned, a Piper in partnership, was tied down. I don't recall a big problem but I lived in the Northwest Seattle area at the time, which is fairly mild and snow is not usually serious, although I did sweep the wings once or twice. What was underneath the snow was a 1/4"-3/4" of crusty melted snow & ice. Flying was out of the question, but I had no plan or need to fly at that time anyway. The paint was poor and did not have the "giving birth" connection. It was a time builder. I don't recall it being an issue. My second plane was a light twin and it was in covered parking, like t-hangers but no real wall, just some partial partitions. It was a big step up ad enjoyed having a locker box tied down to the back of the "stall" for stuff.


My RV outside, I could not imagine. I think RV's are the best but I don't think they are as heavy duty as some planes. I mean they are heavy duty where they need to be, but they are built like a Ferrari not a Truck. However it has been done and there is no reason you can't.

COVERS
Where you live is so important, either too cold, too hot or severe weather. Have you ever seen a plane with hail damage? Not pretty. If I had to go outside. I would invest in some really good covers. I would try to cover the whole plane, AT LEAST I would cover cowl and canopy at min. The tail and wings would be next. RV's tend to leak water and in hot sunny conditions the cockpit would COOK and cause heat damage. A cover for the canopy is a must.

Any suggestions for outside covers for RV's? I know the hanger covers (pajamas) are not meant for ramp use. I know car covers have come a long way.

INSURANCE: One of the biggest claim items is theft of avionics and vandalism. You (may) will pay higher premiums to park outside. If I had a simple VFR RV with out extensive radios I would not worry as much, but some folks are putting in the fancy expensive avionics stuff where one box (that slides out with one quick turn lock) cost almost as much as small new car.

Cheers George
 
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It Was OK at SNA

After I sold my Archer I tied my RV-6A down in my old spot, Row U, #304 at John Wayne Airport in Santa Ana, CA. I intended to keep it there and fly to work every day like I did the Archer but it took me so long to build the plane that I was well past normal retirement age by the time it was completed. Security is pretty good at SNA and I had none of the problems one might expect during the few months my plane was there. There is simply no way I would pay the "tie-down times 4" hangar rate there and I certainly was not going to give up my plane. I did buy a canopy cover from "Bruce's Custom Covers" and it is outstanding. I think every owner would like to have a nice hangar but if you can't afford it you have some decisions to make that do not involve a hangar - it's already eliminated from the option space because the money for it does not exist. A tie-down will work if necessary.

I now have a hangar and it is a special place as others have stated. However, if economics forced me to go back outside I would do it.

Bob Axsom
 
my 02

Here in New England hangars can run $600+ for a T. In the past, I shared a large T with another builder and we split the $600 rent. That's still significant money in my world. Especially in the winter when you're not flying much.

I asked around to find a hanger at an airport closer to home and found a local EAA member who was thinnking about installing an Aero Lift. He agreed to buy one if I committed to "rooming" for a couple of years.

So, here I am with a (relatively) reasonable rent that's close to home and while the lift is not perfect, it sure beats leaving my plane out in the wx. I have given it some thought and decided that I would take a partner before I would give up the hangar. YMMV.

Bottom line: Get involved in your local chapter. Get involved at the airport and ask around. There are opportunities that are not advertised.

Good luck

John