Lionclaw

Lionclaw

Well Known Member
We've had a cold week here in Dayton, and it's getting uncomfortable working in my unheated and uninsulated hangar. I'm considering sealing up the top of the hangar with plastic sheeting and getting a high output propane heater (50k+ btu). The heaters all say they are for outdoor use. Is it something I can safely use in the hangar? Does anyone have any recommendations?
 
Works for me!

Andy,
I have been using a propane catalytic heater in my hangar for years. These heaters burn very clean, and if there will be sufficient fresh air coming in, you will be fine.
 
re: fine

I'm a licensed plumber in OK. I think you'll fine with the propane heater. I have 3 hanging, radiant propane fired heaters in my hangar and have never had any problems. There's plenty of air leakage all over the place in a hangar.
The only problem you're going to have is, as the hangar gets warm, (remember, heat rises) the ceiling will start sweating and before you know it, it'll start raining on you. From the ceiling.:)

Marshall Alexander
 
Procom - Northern Tools

Andy,

I have one in my 900 sq ft garage(hangar) to use during winter building sessions. Mine is a 36,000(38,000) btu ventless natural gas model. My garage is drywalled and insolated with a gas line branched off the house to it. I never taken it past the second setting and leave it on pilot when not working in the garage. They do make a LP model if I remember. I have small gaps at the bottom of my overhead doors but I do leave a window cracked while in the garage just in case. I live about 150 miles south of Dayton.

Whatever you use it would be best if you can cover the ceiling to keep down the heat loss. Like Marshall said plastic might not be the best product for that. Maybe some type of cheap 4 X 8 sheet material.
 
I had unvented radiant heaters in an auto shop I built in 1984. It was a metal building just like most hangers. They reminded me that the number one byproduct of combustion is water. By the time I sold that building 10 years later the office furnace had rusted out completely and the red iron of the building was rusting badly. Even the fluorescent light fixtures were rusting. I will never use that type again. The black tube style of radiant heat works much better.
 
I heat my hangar in Cincinnati with a torpedo heater. My ceiling and door is insuated and it will heat the hangar to 60 degree in about 20 minutes when it's cold outside. I don't have a thermostat that turns it on and off, but you can get one. There is a smell that is not that noticeable unless you go outside for a while, and then come back. Leaving the walk-through door slightly ajar provides fresh air. You can come down to HAO and take a whiff if you want - it's not that far from Dayton... I'll be out there this weekend.

Scott
RV-8FB
 
How about Infrared Heat

Infrared heat is kind of in vogue now. My wife and I have an Ace home center/hardware store in northwestern Montana and are impressed with the infrared heaters that are in the market place now. We sell a brand called Comfort Zone and they have an outdoor model that comes on a telescoping stand seen on shop lights. I soon will roll over my -9A fuselage in our basement and it will not be too long before it has to go out a 6' x 4' window. Next winter looks to be in our unheated garage. Eden Pure is a brand handled by other Ace Hardware stores.

Kim Roberts
Thompson Falls, MT
 
I'm using a kerosene heater and it takes the edge off down to about 30 degrees here; below that I have to have it pointed right at me to do some good. I can't afford kerosene and diesel will make your eyes water after awhile, so I try to limit my sessions using it. I'm trying to get a radiant propane heater instead because I know the exhaust from that heater is bad for me.

One of my hangars has an insulated roof but it also is vented and there's some leakage around the hangar door. I've kept a CO detector around but there's never a lack of fresh air. The other hangar is totally uninsulated and also vented, so there's even less problem.

I can't use electric heat because the circuits the airport provided us won't run a heater and a compressor without tripping. Heck, they barely run the compressor.
 
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Be VERY careful with kerosene heaters. We had a guy using one to heat his garage and his wife came home one day and found him dead on the creeper underneath the car. You must have plenty of ventilation. Don
 
They worked for me...

Kimmer said:
Infrared heat is kind of in vogue now. My wife and I have an Ace home center/hardware store in northwestern Montana and are impressed with the infrared heaters that are in the market place now. We sell a brand called Comfort Zone and they have an outdoor model that comes on a telescoping stand seen on shop lights. I soon will roll over my -9A fuselage in our basement and it will not be too long before it has to go out a 6' x 4' window. Next winter looks to be in our unheated garage. Eden Pure is a brand handled by other Ace Hardware stores.

Kim Roberts
Thompson Falls, MT
Click to expand...

Before I moved to my insulated and heated hangar on the aipark I was building in the back of a large unheated, un-insulated hangar. The IR quartz heaters are great as they only heat you and your work. They dont heat the air. The only problem is they consume a lot of power. If you have 220v, use it. If not, the 120 volt units pull a lot of amps so you need to be careful on where you plug them in. I hung two four foot 1500 watt units, one above my work bench and one above a work area.
 
No pity from me

Last year at this time I was finishing up my RV-6 during one of the coldest Novembers in recent memory. It was not pleasant but the will to finish out weighed the discomfort of the cold. Heating was not an option, the hangers were enclosed but not divided or insulated. I had finished all the temperature critical tasks (i.e. fiberglassing and painting) at home before moving the project to the airport. You will be surprised how much you can put up with if you dress in layers (remember what Mom said) and keep the thoughts of flying in the warm summer next year.
 
For the last two winters, I suffered in an insulated hangar with insufficient heat. Here are some notes on what I used:

Winter #1: Torpedo-type propane heater. These pump out the heat, but they sound like a jet engine. Forget about hearing someone knock on the door, and forget about enjoying music while you work. Also, the moment you turn it off, the heat dissipates quickly. Worst of all, this type of heater puts out a lot of fumes, so I installed a CO detector on the wall, which alarmed every half-hour or so, causing me to shut off the heater and ventilate the place. Overall, I'd say they are pure misery -- and could be dangerous to your health when used in a hangar or other enclosed space.

Winter #2: Wall-mounted, ventless propane heater. Much quieter, and almost no fumes. They also put out less heat. My shop took over an hour to be heated from 35 degrees up to 50 degrees (my limit). On very cold days (below about 25 degrees OAT, it simply couldn't warm up the shop enough for me to work at all. It empties a 20-pound bottle of propane in 7-10 hours of run-time.

Winter #3 (almost upon us): I broke down and installed a ceiling-mounted, vented, Modine industrial gas heater (75k BTU) and a ceiling fan to push the heat down to floor level. The noise level is tolerable. It costs more to run than the other types, but it heats the shop quickly and fume-free. It has a low-temp thermostat I can set and forget at 40 degrees when I'm not in the shop. Now I have no more excuses for lack of progress... :rolleyes: The only downside is that the gas company will charge me $8/month for the gas connection, regardless of whether I use one bit of gas. (Even in the warm summer months, when the heater is shut off completely!)

HangarHeater.jpg

I've heard the infrared "tube"-type heaters are pretty efficient and they heat the stuff you're working with (tools, aluminum skin, hardware) very quickly. I have no experience with them, though...

And then there's in-floor radiant heat. Probably the most deluxe option. Maybe when I win the lottery...
 
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Recommend the unit heater like Buckwynd has.

I do heating and air for a living. I would highly recommend a unit heater like the last post. You will need at least 2- 80 gal propane tanks. I heat my 24x24 1 1/2 story garage with a 2 ton/16 seer heat pump, but only because I do it for a living. If you need a source for a unit heater let me know. No matter what the heat source, insulate and seal it up good. I would not recommend anything ventless, ie kerosene heaters, wall mounted heaters. They are for short periods with ventilation which defeats the purpose. Kerosene "torpedo" heaters are to warm up on a winter construction sight not for indoors. I use them sometimes. Always install carbon monoxide/gas leak detector.
 
bone cold.

You brought back memories. That last month before the inspection, I was in that cold, damp, dimly lit T-hangar for hours on end until the damp and chill had reached the center of my bones. Moving out of the basement to that environment was a real shock. It was impossible to heat the T, and it was against the rules for my lease.

If you don't want to invest a lot of dough on a heater, this thing could crank out some serious heat real quick. It's designed to be operated it in a somewhat ventilated area. Your local hardware store might sell these.
DSC05435.sized.jpg
 
Two types of heat

There are two basic types of heat: Convection and Radiant.

Convection heats the air in the room/hangar. Typically used for heating a home with Forced Air Units, heat source can be natural gas, propane, oil, electric, and in bygone days, coal.

Radiant heat: A red Glowing heat source that radiates heat. It doesn't try to heat the air in the hangar.

Trying to heat a huge hangar by convection is very ex$pensive.

Heating just your body with radiant heat is much cheaper.

I recommend a portable radiant heater, aimed at you during your work. I use a small propane heater that I bought at Home Depot. It attaches to a 5 gal (Or larger) propane tank. It keeps you warm without having to heat the entire building. Quiet, as well. I think I paid about $50 for the unit.

Easy for me to say, since I live in sunny, warm, southern California:D:D
 
Options

I'm a manuf rep in the hvac/p&h industry and one of the lines I represent is Rinnai. So, my bias is noted. I would recommend an ES38 from Rinnai. Direct Vent, Sealed combustion, modulating burner and blower. I've sold over 135,000 of these Rinnai DV's in New England. It's the best heating appliance I've seen in over 45 yrs in the business.

If you do anything with the vent free units, do use a CO detector. Be aware with unvented units that whatever chemical comes off what you are working with will go through the flame and it will come out smelling worse then it went in. Usually much worse! Do pay attention to the condensation as mentioned before. Cold air cannot hold moisture but the combustion process releases almost one gal of moisture per gallon of fuel burned. It may not be a problem in your case...or it may drive you crazy.

Another system to look at is the new Mini-split heat pumps. 410A refrigerant, inverter controlled variable speed. The best technology in that business. At very cold temps (15 and below) they have much reduced capacity but you are at those temps less than 5% of the heating season. I represent Fujitsu. Other major brands are Mitsubishi, Sanyo. They will heat effectively and being a heat pump will also dehumidify and cool.
 
Radiant heat

I recommend the tube type radiant heater. I used one to heat my 25 x25 garage/workshop and it worked extremely well. If you want to see radiant heat in action go to our local Home Depot stand at the cash registers and look up.

This type of heater requires an outside air source and an outside exhaust. Mine is fired using propane.

John Ciolino
 
Stratification is a problem in something like a hangar, due to the open design, and usually high ceiling.

A couple of ceiling fans will make a big difference in the overall temp. Just run them slow enough that you dont feel a draft.

Just remember that heat rises.

Obviously the above is for convective heaters, not radiant.

A couple hundred bucks spent on insulation will return more than the same $$ spent of a bigger heater.

If your building area is a corner of a big hangar, hanging "tent walls" from visqueen will help a lot.
 
plastic walls in hangar

I put up a temp plastic drop ceiling in my hangar to finish my 6. And have been using a propane heater. and a little electric. It's been working pretty good so far.

Here is a picture before I had it all sealed up. You can see my 4 in front and the 6 in back.
I'm using 4mil plastic. But using 6mil might be better cause this stuff kinda tears easily.
hangar.jpg
 
It worked for me

I used a 10'x10' pop-up shade canopy wrapped with the thickest plastic sheet available at HoDe, 6mil I think. I heated the enclosure with 2 1500w electric baseboard heaters placed along opposite walls. I put a 150w light bulb in a reflector centered on the ceiling and a halogen light on one wall.
I was getting 65F inside the workspace while it was 20F outside. I did all forward fuselage riveting, wiring, panel, cowl fitting, and engine baffle work inside the box. A toolbox, workbench and the nose of my -9A fit comfortably. I used this setup for 3 winters.
 
It's a right of passage to work in a cold, No heat, Numbing hanger! It's like being part of some weird aviation polar bear club. I don't have any heaters to loan you but welcome to the club! :)
 
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