walkman

walkman

Well Known Member
I'm doing another panel rebuild and am likely going with the Garmin touchscreen G3X, an SL-40, 496. I'm struggling with the decision for the primary com/nav.

I have decided GTN over the older 430W. I'm trying to decide if its worth about $1,200 more for a 650 vs the 625 to get VOR/ILS/LOC capability especially at the rate the older ground based equipment is being phased out and the rate of new GPS approaches.

Thoughts?
 
Stein will chime in soon, and tell you that Garmin often has specials on the 650, but less often on the 625, which brings the price difference down.

IMHO, you should ask yourself: do you ever shoot ILS approaches to minimums? ILSs still have, in general, slightly lower minimums than LPV approaches, and I doubt they'll go away anytime soon. Every once in a while the ILS will get you in when the LPV won't. So my vote is to keep ILS capability, but it's your money.

PS there is also the redundancy question - although gps has proved to be quite reliable, I like having options.
 
BobTurner said:
Stein will chime in soon, and tell you that Garmin often has specials on the 650, but less often on the 625, which brings the price difference down.

IMHO, you should ask yourself: do you ever shoot ILS approaches to minimums? ILSs still have, in general, slightly lower minimums than LPV approaches, and I doubt they'll go away anytime soon. Every once in a while the ILS will get you in when the LPV won't. So my vote is to keep ILS capability, but it's your money.

PS there is also the redundancy question - although gps has proved to be quite reliable, I like having options.
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I couldn't have stated it better myself.

bob
 
Ditto plus a GTN is an investment. 650 will be worth more to most.
$1200 is cheap in comparison.
 
MarkW said:
Ditto plus a GTN is an investment. 650 will be worth more to most.
$1200 is cheap in comparison.
Click to expand...

One could also argue that a Val Nav 2000 or even swapping that SL-40 for a SL-30 or GNC-255A would give you similar capability and a bit more robust redundancy, being separate boxes from your GPS navigator. All similarly-priced to the $1200 you mentioned, within a couple hundred dollars either way.

You would lose the ability to auto-sequence between gps and nav that you may have with the GTN650 however. And maybe some other things I'm not aware of.
 
Go with the 650

Save some money and go with the GTR-200 for the radio instead of the SL-40
and add some features and save some money to pay for the upgrade to the 650.
 
krw5927 said:
One could also argue that a Val Nav 2000 or even swapping that SL-40 for a SL-30 or GNC-255A would give you similar capability and a bit more robust redundancy, being separate boxes from your GPS navigator. All similarly-priced to the $1200 you mentioned, within a couple hundred dollars either way.

You would lose the ability to auto-sequence between gps and nav that you may have with the GTN650 however. And maybe some other things I'm not aware of.
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In point of fact this is exactly what I did - SL30 plus G-420W. I did not want all my eggs in one box. But to be honest the net cost was well over $1K more than a second com + 430W.
There is no loss of auto sequencing from gps to IlS - my GRT HX does it for me. In fact, I would say operationally it is easier to know if I'm on the VOR/ILS or GPS. With the 430 there can be confusion.
 
I'd like to offer a contrary opinion. I chose the GNS 420W over the 430W for my RV8. Since installing the 430W in my Bonanza in 2002, I have NEVER used the VOR. I have shot ILS's but the GPS approach would have gotten me in. Most of the places I fly do not have ILS or VOR approaches. Yes, the GPS system could possibly go down but then you have ASR approaches at some places.

Flying is all about risk management and I felt the odds of the GPS system going down whilst in IMC are pretty small. I do carry a backup handheld GPS in case the 420W fails. Of course with a total electrical failure neither the GPS, ILS, VOR or ASR will help (without a handheld).

My $.02
 
Part of the equation for me was operational, more than risk management. I carry battery operated, hand held VOR and gps, as well as the SL30 and 420W. If I were, say, 3 hours from home and in IMC, and either the SL30, or the 420W, died, I would most likely continue home. If I had only one box, the 430W, and it died, I would land as soon as practical (assuming vfr was not an option).
 
The 650 will auto load the freq to the nav when selecting an ILS approach. I don't believe it will do that for the SL-30. And I love the auto sequence from GPS to VLOC. Still learning the box and I am not sure I like the Touch screen but I like the rest alot better than the 430.

I was also taught belts and suspenders. I tune in VOR's even though I am on a GPS fligh path. When I depart an airport even close to IFR I have the LOC tuned for a turn around if needed.
 
BobTurner said:
Stein will chime in soon, and tell you that Garmin often has specials on the 650, but less often on the 625, which brings the price difference down.

IMHO, you should ask yourself: do you ever shoot ILS approaches to minimums? ILSs still have, in general, slightly lower minimums than LPV approaches, and I doubt they'll go away anytime soon. Every once in a while the ILS will get you in when the LPV won't. So my vote is to keep ILS capability, but it's your money.

PS there is also the redundancy question - although gps has proved to be quite reliable, I like having options.
Click to expand...

That's the difference between friendly prices at a couple of vendors already discounted.

Would I ever PLAN to fly an ILS to minimums? No. Point of fact last year flying my -6 with dual redundant IFR GPS, ILS, EFIS and fully coupled a/p I declined to fly home into forecast 200 + 1/2 and spend the evening drinking beer with like-minded RVers. I flew home the next day in clear and a million instead.

In fact, since I first put terminal IFR capable GPS into an airplane ('98 or '99 I think) I don't think I've shot a VOR or ILS approach except on IPC rides.

But, that brings up an interesting counterpoint. If I only have GPS on board (I will have a 496 panel mounted for redundancy and tunes), I think I need to take IPC rides in a different airplane.......right?
 
walkman said:
But, that brings up an interesting counterpoint. If I only have GPS on board (I will have a 496 panel mounted for redundancy and tunes), I think I need to take IPC rides in a different airplane.......right?
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The FARs regarding IPCs were changed a few years ago, to require cfii's to follow the PTS when giving IPCs. The IPC requires 3 different approaches; with just gps you can do two, an LPV and an LNAV.

Here's what I do when giving an IPC in a gps only aircraft: I hand the pilot my portable nav com and have him do an 'emergency' VOR approach. IMHO this meets the spirit and, I think, the letter, of the law.
 
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