scard

scard

Well Known Member
Advertiser
With all this efis talk, those that are shopping and/or don't have years of experience with such things should know that it isn't all roses and lollipops. Some of them do go bad periodically. Here is what one of my GRT Horizon WS displays gave me when I hopped in to go for a quick ride yesterday. Don't leave home without software and config backups. 15min later I had reloaded all the needed bits. It is bit scary to see some (of us) that are pretty clueless as to what to do when they see this in their airplane. This isn't the first time or surely the last that this unit will do this in the 7yrs that it has been in service. Just for reference, the last, most recent software update for these from GRT is dated 8/14/2012.

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Can't ever recall my steam gauges ever doing that. :)

And I am content with this. Only want so many things electronic in my panel, the whole thing, no.
 
rocketbob said:
Can't ever recall my steam gauges ever doing that. :)

And I am content with this. Only want so many things electronic in my panel, the whole thing, no.
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OTOH, the last long x/c trip I did in a non-EAB aircraft, I had both the vacuum pump (air driven AI, DG) and the back up, electric (mechanical) AI, both quit before the destination. Fortunately we could go vfr although deteriorating wx forced an early stop the first day (with no DG).
 
No vacuum driven anything for me. Its a combination of steam and electronic stuff. In my case a TT ADI. I have found I don't like LCD primary instruments, too hard to read in many lighting conditions typical of flying an RV.

I was at high altitude airports a few weeks ago where there wasn't phone service or internet. Screen goes TU. What does one do then?

Whenever I see one manufacturer in a panel, no independent backup with something like a Dynon, ummm I just think that's a bad idea.
 
Scott--------kinda reminds me of what mine did a couple years back at Vettermans fly in.;)

Glad you could do a field repair.
 
Me too.

Scott,

The same thing happened to me several years ago and I now keep a USB stick with the latest update with the airplane. Of course, now that I am prepared it has never happened again. I have since upgraded to one HS display and one HX display.

I urge you to call GRT and describe the problem. You will be surprised at how quickly they will work to resolve the issue.
 
rocketbob said:
Whenever I see one manufacturer in a panel, no independent backup with something like a Dynon, ummm I just think that's a bad idea.
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I would think that one manufacturer would not be problematic as long as you have separate, independent systems for primary and backup. An example would be a Dynon Skyview as primary along with a Dynon D10A. As I understand it, a comparable setup with GRT might include the HXr and the new Mini-AP.
 
The nice thing about 2 manufacturers is that the same bug can't knock out both. Not very likely, but say there was a mechanical issue (like o-rings that fail at a certain temperature) or a date/mathematical bug in the software of an EFIS manufacturer... It could affect both devices.
 
The Dynon Skyview and D10A do not share either the same hardware OR software. As a result, isn?t the likelihood of getting either type of failure in both of these systems at the same time about as remote as it happening with two different manufacturer?s units installed? I?m not an engineer, so feel free to correct me if I?m going down the wrong bunny trail?

My understanding of the new GRT Mini is that the hardware and software are also different than their other EFIS products (e.g., the HXr). Perhaps someone from GRT could comment on this to clarify the differences and what, if any, types of hardware/software failures could affect both units simultaneously.
 
I think that generally, you're more likely to have completely different failure modes with 2 totally unique devices. Maybe not significant, but possible.
 
grayforge said:
I think that generally, you're more likely to have completely different failure modes with 2 totally unique devices. Maybe not significant, but possible.
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I am a huge proponent of "dis-similar redundnancy", but that doesn't mean they can't be different products from the same manufacturuer. If the software and hardware are different, it doesn't bother me to have the same brand name decaled on the front. Using a GRT Mini to back up an Hx, or a Dynon D6 to back up a Skyview is perfectly acceptable. Yes, they COULD fail simultaneously, but not becasue of similarity - only becasue of random acts of mathematics (and there would be a LOT of zeros in the probability calculations).
 
As a software developer, I can't imagine a company not sharing at least some amount of source code between products. Sure, one could be a 'fresh re-write', but there will often still be code shared between them, like frameworks, libraries, common classes or methods, etc.
 
Katie, will the mini software talk RS 232 to a Guardian pulse OC sensor?
I have space for the new mini and want to ditch my portable pulse ox. It does not read well in sunlight under a canopy.
 
Ironflight said:
I am a huge proponent of "dis-similar redundnancy", but that doesn't mean they can't be different products from the same manufacturuer. If the software and hardware are different, it doesn't bother me to have the same brand name decaled on the front. Using a GRT Mini to back up an Hx, or a Dynon D6 to back up a Skyview is perfectly acceptable. Yes, they COULD fail simultaneously, but not becasue of similarity - only becasue of random acts of mathematics (and there would be a LOT of zeros in the probability calculations).
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Being Devils Advocate, I can imagine the same company could or would have the same weaknesses in their software development philosophy in their various products. Something like a shutdown when traversing International Dateline, as per F-22, probably would be in all products from the same team.
John
 
Whole lotta' what-ifs here. I showed you mine, now lets see your efis failures, and it didn't happen if there isn't a picture. There are enough of us out there with many hundreds and thousands of hours behind various equipment. Surely they all have failures. Lets see them. Iron, don't you dare say that you don't see pictures because they fail so rarely :).

Do you know what it looks like when your AHRS or Magnetometer checks out to lunch in flight? What about when the unit completely believes that north is 'that way' with no hint of having a clue that it is actually 90-130deg off? I too am a software developer and am just saying that all the pretty pictures aren't always perfect, or even functional.
 
rocketbob said:
Whenever I see one manufacturer in a panel, no independent backup with something like a Dynon, ummm I just think that's a bad idea.
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Certain amount of truth to that. My cave diving buddy was on a scooter trip some several thousand feet back at like 300' on trimix when BOTH his dive computers had the same software malfunction. I dive with computers from two different manufacturers.

How many people put in one Dynon and one GRT?

Something to think about.
 
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