[BlackRV7]

It's early Christmas time around my house today. I backed up my HS settings prior to sending the DU unit back to GRT. Upon getting my new HX today, it was a simple matter of plugging in my USB stick and updating my prior setup. With that, it was a simple repower up and my unit was working, plug and play right out of the box. You can see from the picture below, the back of the box is quite different. There are now two USB ports along with an Ethernet connection. You can also see the new cooling slots cut into the box.

You can see the difference in the PFD display of the HX and my prior HS. The screen just looks better laid out right out of the box and is crystal clear. It is really something to see.

This is the HS display:

Here is a shot of the MAP portion of the HX. One of the things I noticed immediately is how fast the screens scroll through the various pages. The increased speed of the new processor is obvious. What you are looking at are the mountains, OK knolls just south of my house. I have the Terrain function turned off that is preset to show red to within 500' and yellow from 500' to 1000'.

There is another feature embedded within the software called Internal Virtual GPS. It uses the location data it gets from, in my case, my Garmin 430 and allows me to select a "direct to" using the GRT unit. I can now select simple D-> from the GRT unit and drive my Trio Auto Pilot. I'm about ready to just call this GRT unit a MFD and be done with it....it's that good.

 

[Ironflight]

Nice pics Dana - I predict you're REALLY gonna like it when you fly it!

Paul

 

[Sticky1]

Hummmmm

That is the 6"....?

 

[BlackRV7]

That is the 6"....?

Sticky1?? This is the standard plug and play HX replacement of the HS unit.

 

[Sticky1]

Hummmm - Ok

I was under the impression that the GRT has the HX in the 6.5 and 8.4 inch screens. Plug n play...don't know bout that...! For those with the 6.5, what is your viewing distance to the screen and can you see all clearly (assuming one has their glasses on).

 

[BlackRV7]

I was under the impression that the GRT has the HX in the 6.5 and 8.4 inch screens. Plug n play...don't know bout that...! For those with the 6.5, what is your viewing distance to the screen and can you see all clearly (assuming one has their glasses on).

By plug and play I meant I was able to remove the HS and slide the HX into the same hole and use the same D sub without any mods. As for my distance, I don't think my answer would do you any good at all as I have become to suffer from the medical condition that my sight is not going bad but my arms are getting shorter To answer your other question, with my glasses on, the screen is sharp and more than easily readable. If I can get a good shot, I'll post one of just the unit itself so you can see the crispness of the display.

 

[Capflyer]

Still debating doing the upgrade to the HX. What is the ethernet port used for?

 

[Ironflight]

Still debating doing the upgrade to the HX. What is the Ethernet port used for?

I believe that they can handle the DU to DU communication, although I am still using a serial port for that (since I have one HX and one HS, and the HS doesn't have the Ethernet). I'm sure there'll be more uses in the future - GRT usually plans well ahead! The HX also has a couple more serial ports than the previous units - plenty of room to grow.

Paul

 

[BlackRV7]

For those with the 6.5, what is your viewing distance to the screen and can you see all clearly (assuming one has their glasses on).

Sorry for the quality of the pics, my view screen quit working...as in I broke it when I mountain bike crashed Sunday...so the pics are a little slanted but you can see the quality of the shots. With that said though, the pics truly don't do the quality of the screen justice.

These are still shots of Pauls flight, so these are actual flight pics.. Paul sent me the file, it is something to see in it's entirety. I think GRT has hit a grand slam with this introduction. This first shot shows approaching the mountain range with the third picture the MAP view from the same location.

This pic shows the mountains as they get nearer.

Like I said above, this MAP pic is from the same location as the PFD pic in the first posted pic.

I thought this was an interesting shot after all the talk in a prior post about situational awareness. Notice the smoother ground at about 1 0'clock but the flat land is definitely on the left side of the airplane.

I took this shot so you could see the runway orientation in the upper left quarter of the pic.

 

[Webb]

Head out of the cockpit

Dana,

One question - will you ever be able to get your head out of your cockpit???

Awesome, just awesome.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Very impressive. I'm really curious to see what the larger screen looks like in person!

TODR

 

[Ironflight]

Thanks for taking and posting the pics Dana - I've been meaning to do it, but have just been so busy!

TODR, you'll just have to try harder to make a trip with us! Or, next time you're in Houston, give me a call....

Paul

 

[Sticky1]

OK.....But,

Great screens, however, the reason I am asking about the distance vrsus the clarity is because I am trying to compare the 6 to the 8. The further back you are from the screen the bigger the screen should be. Close with the 8 might show pixels. I might be better with the 6.

 

[Captain Avgas]

Great screens, however, the reason I am asking about the distance vrsus the clarity is because I am trying to compare the 6 to the 8. The further back you are from the screen the bigger the screen should be. Close with the 8 might show pixels. I might be better with the 6.

Carlos at GRT has advised me that the 6.5" HS and HX screens and the 8.4" HX screen all have the same number of pixels (640 X 480). Therefore for close viewing I would imagine that the 6.5" screen must look crisper (more pixels per square inch).

Part of me fancies a bigger screen but it seems impossible to fit 2 off 8.4" screens to the left of the radio stack in a side-by side 2 seat RV. All of the builders with the larger AFS screens have one in front of the pilot and one in front of the passenger. That does not make sense to me.....I want critical info in front of me...not on the far right. I think what's happening is that some builders are so determined to squeeze in bigger screens that they are prepared to accept panel layouts that are ergonomically inferior.

 

[Dave Cole]

Set it up to fly from either seat

I thinks what's happening is that some builders are so determined to squeeze in bigger screens that they are prepared to accept panel layouts that are ergonomically inferior.

On the other hand, it could be that some builders want to put a DU in front of each seat of a side-by-side so that it can be flown effectively from either side. Builders chosing this option would probalby choose "co-pilot" brakes, too.

Although this choice may not be for everyone, it's what I plan to do. I think I may prefer flying from the right seat (due to over 2000 hours of holding the stick in my right hand), and I intend to let my co-pilot fly the plane as well, regardless of which seat I'm sitting in.

 

[BlackRV7]

That does not make sense to me.....I want critical info in front of me...not on the far right. I thinks what's happening is that some builders are so determined to squeeze in bigger screens that they are prepared to accept panel layouts that are ergonomically inferior.

The discussion has moved off the original post but I'll chime in from experience. If you look at my original pictures in this post, you will notice my large screen engine monitor is located right of airplane center line. While not "totally" in front of the passenger, it would only take another 3" to do so. This engine monitor is in exactly the same place as it was when I was flying Black Magic. Due to the size of the 7 cockpit, I had no issues at all in it's location. I believe it's hard to read into someone's mind what they are thinking with placing various avionics in locations they desire, my experience showed me the placement of my right/middle screen was fine.

 

[Gsuit]

One last off-topic question only because it shows in this pic and I've been meaning to ask...

What is the green arc in the center lower part of the screen? I still have the older GRT's and I see this all the time while I'm flying and haven't read anything about it (I really haven't began to ring out my avionics fully). I told a buddy the other day it was my radar raster

 

[Ironflight]

What is the green arc in the center lower part of the screen? I still have the older GRT's and I see this all the time while I'm flying and haven't read anything about it (I really haven't began to ring out my avionics fully). I told a buddy the other day it was my radar raster

I believe (if I remember correctly - I find it kinda useless) that it tells you where you will reach your preset altitude if you are climbing or descending. i find that it varies too quickly as descent rate varies to work for me.

Paul

 

[rvmills]

I believe (if I remember correctly - I find it kinda useless) that it tells you where you will reach your preset altitude if you are climbing or descending. i find that it varies too quickly as descent rate varies to work for me.

Paul

Caveat: I don't have a GRT. However, that function of the green arc (as Paul described it) would match what the green arc displays on airliner EFIS displays (at least the one I use). It will move as VSI and speed changes occur. Helpful as a backup to monitor progress towards hitting crossing restrictions (and IMHO, works better in a decent than a climb, since climb performance often deteriorates as you get higher, and constant speed and ROD decents are easier to sustain). It's another tool in the EFIS toolbox...kind of a visual supplement to the mental math you do as you make sure you hit altitude restrictions. I could see how it might move around a lot in our nimble little machines (vs. the heavier, more stable birds). It would be interesting to fly behind one in an RV to see how the usabilty (of that feature) compares.

Sure is a nice display!

Cheers,
Bob

 

[asav8tor]

Agree with Bob. The "Green Bannana" is one of the VERY useful tools on the Boeing EFIS. Use it all the time. Very nice to see it on GRT.

 

[Ironflight]

Thanks for the confirmation on that Bob....I think you hit the nail on th head about why I find it less than useful - the RV's just don't keep that stable of a rate change, unless the air is very smooth. I have played with the little line when descending to duck under Class B, or other such airspace - good concept, and obviously would be better in something much heavier!

Paul

 

[apatti]

Or, perhaps GRT could use (or increase the use of) a smoothing algorithm on the VSI data stream.

 

[Radomir]

I use it quite a bit... and it works for me.. I don't find it that twitchy.. Of course it moves if I don't keep the descent steady... I usually use it by setting the alt to 1000 above the field elevation.. then I adjust my descent to keep the green arc over my destination airport.. This is in conjunction w/ other "mental math" that is normally done when descending into the destination.. it's a tool available.. why not use it

 

[zkvii]

Green arc

Hi,

I do use it as follows:

Mainly X-Country, (normally controlled VFR) cruising along at say 9500' on autopilot (GPSS/GPSV engaged) with the MFD driving alt and the GPS flight plan the track. Before top of descent I change to ALT Hold on the AP - this keeps my height whilst steering is still from the GPS flight plan. Then select the joining altitude that I want and FPM on the MFD. Watching the NAV screen I can see the green arc and when it is "X" from the waypoint I select GPSV again on the AP and the descent profile is started.

The result is on track course and a nice stable descent, also progressively I pull the power back to maintain 'cruise speed' and adjust the green arc prediction as needed.

Regards,

Carl

 

[ccrawford]

Thanks for posting the pics. My primary HS won't get upgraded until December, I can't wait. The top down view with terrain is really sharp, it looks like I'll have to save a few extra $$ and get my second HS upgraded ASAP!

 

[SteinAir]

Carlos at GRT has advised me that the 6.5" HS and HX screens and the 8.4" HX screen all have the same number of pixels (640 X 480). Therefore for close viewing I would imagine that the 6.5" screen must look crisper (more pixels per square inch).

Part of me fancies a bigger screen but it seems impossible to fit 2 off 8.4" screens to the left of the radio stack in a side-by side 2 seat RV. All of the builders with the larger AFS screens have one in front of the pilot and one in front of the passenger. That does not make sense to me.....I want critical info in front of me...not on the far right. I think what's happening is that some builders are so determined to squeeze in bigger screens that they are prepared to accept panel layouts that are ergonomically inferior.

It's actually quite possible and quite easy to fit two of the large screen GRT or AFS screens, then a radio stack, then another "3rd" screen or whatever on the right. Take a look at Doug Reeves new panel, or Alex D's new panel and you'll see we've done just that. I wouldn't necessarily call the other way of doing it inferior, just different peoples choices, different missions, etc... With these large screens you can now split the data 3 ways and choose what you want in front of you without making any of it to small. On Doug's new panel we managed 2 large AFS screens, then a heck of a stack with dual GNS430's, then a 3rd EFIS on the right....all in an RV6. Alex's is an RV7 panel that is similar (except for not having dual 430's).

Anyway, just an FYI in case you were still thinking it can't be done.

Beyond that, we've managed to cram the G900X into both an RV7 and RV9 along with a Dynon screen, so if those two screens fit, then just about anything will!

My 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

It's actually quite possible and quite easy to fit two of the large screen GRT or AFS screens, then a radio stack, then another "3rd" screen or whatever on the right.

If you could get an EFIS with the functionality of the ubiquitous G396/496, it would make sense to me to have it as a "third screen" at the top of the avionics stack on a side-by-side. You could use it as a MFD with moving map and WX, engine display or HSI.

However, IMHO, the map and flight planning functions aren't quite there yet from what I can tell. I haven't played with a HX GRT yet and AFS's software always seems to be in a more modern release than I last saw it; Dynon doesn't seem to have any FP functions. The flight planning part would be one of my concerns, but it's only a matter of time until the software evolves.

My "gold standard" for MFDs is the MX20/GMX200 - great display, quick updates, flexible and, most importantly to me, they look like charts (VFR or low-level IFR enroutes). The Avidyne MFDs are also good in that they always look like a map and you can overlay different items on it (e.g., terrain, IFR enroute data, etc), but it's always a map. The certified MFDs are all spendy in comparison to the experimental EFIS.

TODR

 

[Captain Avgas]

It's actually quite possible and quite easy to fit two of the large screen GRT or AFS screens, then a radio stack, then another "3rd" screen or whatever on the right. Take a look at Doug Reeves new panel, or Alex D's new panel and you'll see we've done just that. Cheers,
Stein.

Thanks for your comments Stein. How do I get to see Doug and Alex's new panels....they don't seem to appear on your website.

I'm planning an IFR glass panel. To me that means steam guage back-up (in a readily viewable and logical position) for at least 3 instruments. That's the way it is in certificated GA aircraft (and for good reason) but of course in the Experimental category builders can do whatever they want.

In addition I am also reluctant to gain extra real estate by lowering the panel. Comfort for myself and passengers on long hauls is paramount. So I'm talking about a standard panel....not a knee basher.

So given those two reasonable parameters it would be interesting to know how 2 off 8.4" screens could be fitted to the left of a radio stack. On your site all the second big screens on the side by side RVs seem to be in front of the passenger. To my way of thinking that simply cannot be ergonomically optimum for a pilot flying from the normal left seat.

It seems to me that clustering critical information into a smaller scan space in front of the person flying the plane is advantageous. Other layouts may suffice due to space restraints without being truly optimum in an ergonomic sense. I cannot remember seeing too many single engine certificated aircraft with the second glass screen positioned smack in front of the passenger. They all seem to be positioned as far left as physically possible.

But I'd certainly like to see any designs that successfully put 2 off 8.4" screens in front of the pilot with appropriate back-up in a standard panel. I'm really open to ideas and suggestions.

 

[BlackRV7]

However, IMHO, the map and flight planning functions aren't quite there yet from what I can tell. I haven't played with a HX GRT yet
TODR

While the Internal Virtual GPS, within the new HX, does not show various low altitude routes and such, it does enable one to have a flight plan loaded, in my case, in my 430 and opt out on the GRT to GPS2 internal virtual and FP on the GRT unit. Let's look at it this way, I am on a multiple WP FP on my 430 with ATC want me to temporarily do direct somewhere off my FP, I switch to GPS2 and bring up this new WP on my GRT HX screen and hit D->. I am now driving my autopilot using the internal virtual GPS in the HX but still have my multiple WP FP running in my 430. When ATC allows resumed nav., all I have to do is change from GPS2 to GPS1 on the HX and I'm back to the 430. This way I have two different, if needed, FP's and can bring either up by just changing between GPS1 & GPS2 while only having one external GPS. The internal virtual GPS has it's own database but uses the input from the external GPS for position information. This is a feature I can already tell I am going to use on the HX. I can now FP on the GRT and drive the autopilot from the same unit. I'm liking it a lot.

 

[SteinAir]

Thanks for your comments Stein. How do I get to see Doug and Alex's new panels....they don't seem to appear on your website....

Lots of info got blown up on my website and we're in the process of creating a brand new site so many things are a bit wonky at the moment. Anyway, you can see the pics below and also DR's via a link on his front page.

Cheers,
Stein

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Lots of info got blown up on my website and we're in the process of creating a brand new site so many things are a bit wonky at the moment. Anyway, you can see the pics below and also DR's via a link on his front page.

Hey, what's with the new layout on the AFS EFIS? I see a flight director and also a traditional HSI display. Are these changes that will be rolled out to existing AF-3400/3500 units? I like it.

TODR

 

[SteinAir]

Ooops...perhaps I wasn't supposed to show that! "Please move along - nothing to see here" - no comment, blah blah blah!

 

[Brantel]

Hey Stein....

I have been trying to find a link to Doug's latest panel and cannot.. Where is it?

 

[SteinAir]

I belive it's HERE

Cheers,
Stein

 

[N402RH]

I feel bad about posting anything in the GRT discussion.....

But, yes the new AFS software is in beta test with a number of people flying it and all the systems will have the new features.

Flight Director, autopilot interface, voice altitude alerting, minimums/DH bug with voice alerts, timer voice alerts, updated weather, updated Traffic?.

We should have the new manual posted later today.

No Stein you are not in trouble for posting the picture, the latest picture with the windmills will get you in trouble!

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Ooops...perhaps I wasn't supposed to show that! "Please move along - nothing to see here" - no comment, blah blah blah!

I know nothing, NOTHING!

TODR

 

[Captain Avgas]

It's actually quite possible and quite easy to fit two of the large screen GRT or AFS screens, then a radio stack, then another "3rd" screen or whatever on the right. Take a look at Doug Reeves new panel, or Alex D's new panel and you'll see we've done just that.
Cheers,
Stein.

Stein, I took a look at Alex's panel. Very compact and with nice balance. But I'd say it is not a standard size panel. Can you advise how much the panel has been extended. Also it appears to be for a slider canopy...is that correct.

 

[garrys]

HS vs HX

I'm not sure I got this right. I have two HS screens in my 7-A and was told that the new HX boxes are larger and would require me to cut out a whole new panel to accomodate them. Are you saying that they have a version of the HX box which fits the existing holes in my panel?

Garry Stout
Tampa, FL

 

[Ironflight]

I'm not sure I got this right. I have two HS screens in my 7-A and was told that the new HX boxes are larger and would require me to cut out a whole new panel to accomodate them. Are you saying that they have a version of the HX box which fits the existing holes in my panel?

Garry Stout
Tampa, FL

Not sure who told you that Garry but my experience was that if you have standard size HS's, the standard size HX will drop right in!

Paul

 

[Radomir]

Garry... HS and HX are same size.. it's "WS" (the original one.. wide screen) that is shorter.. so you'd have to enlarge the opening in the panel to fit either HS or HX.. When in doubt, check mfgrs website for the info.. the following link has mounting templates/dimensions for each variant:

http://www.grtavionics.com/default.aspx?id=4