Larco

Larco

Well Known Member
For the benefit of those who are curious, I wanted to start a new thread for comments from those who have replaced the MATCO nose wheel with the new GROVE wheel. I have assisted with the replacement of 2 so far and am so impressed with a positive difference between the two. Starting with the ease of movement on the ground to the lack of gear leg fourth and aft pulsing movement when taxi, take off and landing roll out. With the drag now removed with the new free spinning wheel, it just feels better and I'm sure that the tendency to dig a furrow on soft surfaces is now gone as well. IMHO it is a well spent 300 bucks. Larry
 
grove wheel

I must say, I agree. Replaced mine as a precaution, and was surprised at the lack of bounce when letting the nose down on rollout. smoother taxi as well. I really never expected to feel any difference, but indeed, there is.

Regards,
Chris
 
I actually picked up a new shimmy with the new wheel that I didn't have before. I've already ruled out (through testing) breakout force, tire pressure, and tire type. Next step for me it to get it balanced.
 
Grove Nosewheel

I replaced my Matco and used a new tire & tube, from Van's, and the difference is remarkable, to say the least! I landed at Graham and back at Hicks, both notable not-so-smoothe runways, and I intentionally let the nose down much sooner than I normally would and there was no shimmy.
Before converting, when landing on both of those runways, the shimmy was so distinct that my panel shook and I could feel it pulsing the stick.
All that is gone and I'm really happy with it! :D
 
nose wheel

i have the new type nose gear does that mean i have the grove or do i have the matco it came with my kit?
 
brister said:
i have the new type nose gear does that mean i have the grove or do i have the matco it came with my kit?
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Van doesn't sell the Grove wheel. You have the Matco with a revised gear leg (1" shorter) and revised fork.
 
grove nose wheel

Thanks for the help? I will be flying into a grass strip in Texas, on a lot I purchased, and have been worried about the nose gear. ( i have never landed on grass only pavement ) want to take every available percaution.
 
what do I order??

scard said:
Yep. Order up!
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Scott - can you post a list of what we need to "order up"? Is it just the wheel, or do I need a new axle, bearing, etc.

Part numbers would be really helpful.

It seems like this is a great mod and it would be awesome to have a list available for us that go behind..

Thanks in advance!
 
IowaRV9Dreamer said:
Scott - can you post a list of what we need to "order up"? Is it just the wheel, or do I need a new axle, bearing, etc.

Part numbers would be really helpful.

It seems like this is a great mod and it would be awesome to have a list available for us that go behind..

Thanks in advance!
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It is in other threads around here. Just call Grove and tell them you have an RV-xA and want the cool nose wheel that everybody is buying. They'll hook you up. I don't think the parts are listed on their website anyway.
 
Just got mine

I got my new Grove nose wheel and a tire/tube (from Dresser) and am very happy with them. The wheel arrived the day after I order it! When I ordered, it was as though they were expecting my call. I placed my order the day after Labor Day and was the 4th RV customer that morning. I'm not flying yet, but being able to spin the wheel is much nicer than the Matco wheel with its drag.

-rob
RV-9A finishing
 
Grove P/N

IowaRV9Dreamer said:
Scott - can you post a list of what we need to "order up"? Is it just the wheel, or do I need a new axle, bearing, etc.

Part numbers would be really helpful.

It seems like this is a great mod and it would be awesome to have a list available for us that go behind..

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

They know what you want but the Grove p/n is 59-2M-RV for the magnesium wheel and it's 59-2A-RV for the aluminum wheel. The mag wheel is about $30 more than the aluminum.
I removed my Matco wheel with tire & tube plus the Van's mushroom spacers as an assembly and weighed it using a light Walmart bag. I had the Grove magnesium wheel with a new Lamb tire and tube from Van's plus the Grove mushroom spacers ready to go and it weighed 1.2 pounds less that the Matco.
They normally ship UPS ground but I requested USPS and I had mine in Texas only 44 hours after ordering! :)
 
OK to use Desser tire with tube?

I ordered a tire from Desser for my new Grove nose wheel. The tire is the new Aero Classic (which I'm told was developed for Cessna's new LSA.) It is marked "tubeless" but I plan to use it with a tube. I am concerned about the "embossed grid" pattern molded into the inside of the tire. Tube type tires that I'm familiar with have always had a smooth inner surface and I'm concerned about friction between the tire and tube. I called Desser and was told that it is no problem putting a tube in this tire.

Any comments?

Does anyone know of any other brand of aviation tire available in the 400-5 size (other than the Lamb tire sold by Van's?)
 
What do you do with your old Matco nosewheel?

Will Van's give you credit if you send it back? Do you keep it as a spare? Do you use it as a target at the shooting range? Inquiring minds want to know!

Also, I have a new U LAMB tire and tube from Van's. I assume that tire is what everyone is using with the Grove wheel on the RV-7a/8a/9a. Has anyone gone to the larger 5:00X5-6 tire used on the mains? Would the larger tire fit in the new fork?

And finally, I noticed that the Matco NW501.25 is designed for the following standards: Static Capacity: 1420 LBS (per the Matco web site). The Grove 59-2A/M has only a static load rating of 800 lbs. Is that a potential problem?


Albert Thomas
RV-8A QB
N880AT
still wiring........
Grove mains & brakes
Matco nosewheel
 
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Very impressed with the Mag one I installed for a customer. Rolls smoother, fore/aft oscillation tendencies are all but gone. And weight was not really a factor.
 
I installed the magnesium grove nosewheel a while back and have about 70 hours or so on it now. It's working great. People have told me that I have no forward-aft movement in the NLG.

I'm happy with it, even though it was expensive. I really wish Van would consider making this the OEM wheel.
 
Wow, that thing is spendy

I am a little surprised how much that wheel assembly is! Isn't the Van's part about half that much?!?

Has anybody tried to 'fix' their existing Matco wheel? It looks like all they do is add a spacer in the middle of the "mushrooms".

I imagine the it would have to be a pretty careful fit, but any competent machinist should be able to do it.

I am not trying to bash the Grove part, but I was just hoping somebody might have already figured out how to fix their old wheel without having to shell out another $300+

Eurof2
 
Eurof2
I have fitted the Grove nose wheel to my RV6A and can assure you it is an excellent piece of workmanship. The magnesium wheel and assembly is nearly 1.5 lbs lighter than the Vans/Cleavland wheel assembly (I had the solid axle system which was prior to the later mushroom spacer system).

However you are correct that anyone with a lathe could either make a similar axle assembly perhaps by modifying the Vans mushroom axle and making a tube spacer. I think many of us who went with the Grove system were prepared to pay the price for a no hassle plug and play solution.

Barry RV6A F-PRVM
 
The perceived problem with the Matco wheel isn't just the axle, but also the rubber dust seal that puts drag on the wheel. The Grove wheel has a felt seal. Some people have cut back the rubber seal on the Matco wheel to reduce drag.
 
OK, I'm in. I am still building but getting close to the point I need it before putting weight on the nosewheel, so I may as well as do it. I did talk to the nice sales lady and she had just gotten off the phone with someone who was ordering one, and they have sold a bunch in the last few days so she was wondering what the heck was up! I just said there was new thread on VAF and everyone was saying good things.
 
Hay, if you really want to spend the money, buy all your brakes stuff from Grove. Nice stuff.
 
I upgraded to the Grove nosewheel today. The installation was straight forward as others have said. I did have one interesting note, however. The Matco wheel was 3.875" thick where the bead attaches. The Grove wheel was 4.25" at the same point. This was no problem attaching/assembling the wheel/tire. My problem arrived after mounting the new assemble with the wheel pants. The new wheel would not spin and seemed to be dragging. It took a little time to figure it out as I had a torpedo heater running and could not hear clearly. What caused the problem were the large allen screws that hold onto the front of the wheel pants. They extended through the fork enough to rub on the wider tire. After shutting off the heater (brrrrrrr!), it was obvious and easily corrected with a couple extra washers under the allen screws. Please be sure to check for this effect of the thicker assembly and reduced clearance.

Good Luck,
Tom, RV-7A, N175TJ Flying
 
For the cheaper solution, i'd imagine finding a better bearing for the Matco wheel would be able to be sourced ;). I'm surprised no one has thought of that.
 
osxuser said:
For the cheaper solution, i'd imagine finding a better bearing for the Matco wheel would be able to be sourced ;). I'm surprised no one has thought of that.
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Thought of it, just havent taken the necessary time to find it----if it exists.

The Timken bearing website is a total nightmare:eek:
 
Mike S said:
Thought of it, just havent taken the necessary time to find it----if it exists.

The Timken bearing website is a total nightmare:eek:
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I'll work on it if I have some time, it really shouldn't be that hard, and I know where I can go to look at a bunch of different bearings. Now I've just got to get ahold of my customers old nosewheel.
 
Cleveland site

Mike S

I just tried the site link that I posted and it shows nothing for some reason. If you go to the Cleveland site and paste nose wheel bearing in the search box it comes up. RV-10 version and one for other A's.

Mike H 9A/8A
 
Try this http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RVWS10

This setup was posted by the guy who makes it, week or two ago. It looks like a really nice solution to the basic problem of not enough surface for the spacer to contact, and complicated by the rubber dust seal.

It appears to be a simple way to deal with the problem, costs less than buying a Grove wheel------and then you still need to do some mods to the setup, as I outlined in this post about a year and a half ago.

For the tinkerer who wants to do it themselves, take a look at my prior thread. For someone who just wants to fix the problem, take a good look at the fix that Cleveland is selling.

What "OSXUSER" and I were talking about, was changing the bearing, where the problem actually is, for one that will allow the use of the stock Vans setup without a lot of $$$ or tinkering.

I think the simplest and least expensive fix is a different bearing, and seal-----if they exist that is.
 
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osxuser said:
For the cheaper solution, i'd imagine finding a better bearing for the Matco wheel would be able to be sourced ;). I'm surprised no one has thought of that.
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Timpkin sells the same bearing without the rubber dust seal. But the problem is fitting a felt dust seal, support washer and retainer to the Matco wheel.

The Grove wheel has other features that make it a better option. The wheel is tapered from the bead to the center and allows the tire to be removed easily. And of course the way the axle and support is designed.
 
gasman said:
Timpkin sells the same bearing without the rubber dust seal. But the problem is fitting a felt dust seal, support washer and retainer to the Matco wheel.
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And dont forget the big radius in the inner race------this is the main issue.

Rubber seal can be dealt with fairly easily. Just cut the ID out a bit to clear the stock Vans spacer. It just snaps on, BTW.

To use a felt seal/washer setup will require cutting a retaining ring groove in the wheel-----IF, there is room to do so.
 
Mike S said:
And dont forget the big radius in the inner race------this is the main issue.

Rubber seal can be dealt with fairly easily. Just cut the ID out a bit to clear the stock Vans spacer. It just snaps on, BTW.

To use a felt seal/washer setup will require cutting a retaining ring groove in the wheel-----IF, there is room to do so.
Click to expand...

There are some setups that don't rely on a retaining ring/ring groove to retain the felt seal, and that would be the way I'd look at doing it. Early Bonanza nosewheels come to mind. Cutting the groove would be a little too much trouble to make keeping the Matco wheel worth it.

Probably not worth marketing, but something i'll mess with in my 'spare' time.
 
Another Grove nose wheel

During the lousy weather over the last week, I installed a new tire and tube on the Grove nose wheel and installed them on our RV7a. I have planned on getting a better tire from Dresser but when I called them they had none in stock. So I ordered the tire and tube from Van's.

Today the weather improved and had a chance to go fly approaches and make first landings with the new nose wheel. I must say I was surprised because I not noticed any vibrations with the old wheel, and the new nose wheel was noticiably smoother with no vibrations or shimmy. I guess after 490 hours with the old nose wheel, we had just gotten used to it. The new nose wheel was a big improvement. Glad I made the switch.
 
If you have an early kit (6A)... probably with the orginal Cleaveland nose wheel.. There isn't any reason to go with the Grove... The Cleaveland is a free spinning setup like the Grove..
 
You might want to consider the new MATCO axle that they are selling on their website. It replaces the "mushrooms" with a solid, but adjustable aluminum axle. The axle bolt is torqued to spec and doesn't affect the bearing preload. It was a little over $50 and appears to address most of the issues that the Grove wheel addresses at a much cheaper cost.

I bought one and am anxious to install it on my -7A.
 
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