kevinh

kevinh

Well Known Member
Hi ya'll,

In one of the recent 'A models are a nose-over waiting to happen, a sure deathtrap' threads :eek: I saw a note about the Grove nosewheel replacement. I wasn't really worried about my Van's nose wheel, but I've been missing building and switching the wheel provided me with a (marginally) interesting project. This post is a 'review' of sorts.

I'm not a super experienced pilot (500 hrs), but I do have 220ish hours in my 7A since I first flew it in 2005. Mostly on paved strips, but I've landed on grass a few times and the black rock desert a number of times. I typically fly final at 67kts and more like 73kts if it is gusty/xwind. I think my landing form is pretty good - I always land on the mains and hold the nose off until it just won't stay up any more. Generally - if the plane ain't flying the stick is back in my lap (just like I learned on my old tailwheel plane).

I keep all my wheels at 35 psi, and the breakout force on the nose at 22 lbs [edit: I mistakenly wrote 14 before]. On my Van's nose wheel I'd keep the axle torque towards the low end of Van's recommended range.

I really didn't expect much change - but various folks theories about the current Van's nose dragging were interesting. Generally:
  • the rubber seals were somehow bad, and/or
  • using the axle bolt to set the preload was bad

The grove design has a hollow shaft to carry the preload - the torque on the axle nut has nothing to do with this preload. The grove nosewheel also doesn't have the rubber seals on the bearings. Might as well try it and see for myself...

Installation was straightforward - I did need to install roll pins in the nose fork (as a replacement for the screws I previously used to keep the Van's 'mushrooms' from spinning).

I just got back from a bit of pattern work. I was really surprised at the difference!

I first noticed the much lower drag on the nosewheel - I could even tell a difference while pulling the plane around before taxi.

All three landings I did were noticeably different than my old Van's nose wheel:

On my Van's wheel - during the roll out I would hold the nose off as long as possible, then eventually when it wouldn't stay up any more I'd let the nose down. When this happened, I'd need to apply a very small amount of forward pressure to keep the nose from bouncing. In other words, once I was slow enough that the nose would not stay up there was a brief period in the roll-out where I'd need this slight forward pressure to keep the nose 'stuck' on the pavement.

The first time I landed on the grove, I kept pulling the stick back after I landed to keep the nose off. But then I noticed a funny thing - once the nose finally couldn't be held up it just came down and 'stuck' on the runway. I actually couldn't even feel when the nose finally stopped flying - there was no up and down bouncing if I didn't apply that temporary forward pressure the Van's wheel always needed. I did a couple more times around the pattern and this change was very noticeable.

I don't know if this new behavior is 'better' (though it sure feels that way). I can't speak to the engineering of why or why not this change should be present - but I can contribute this one data point.

I'm definitely keeping the grove nose wheel. If someone else is so inclined I'd be interested in seeing another before and after test from a flying plane.

Kevin
 
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I also just recently swapped out the Van's wheel for the grove and noticed the same effect, I attributed it more to the new tire (new tread style from Dresser) than the wheel itself but maybe a combination of both. I did like being able to tighten down the axle bolt nice and snug which does not affect brearing pre-load now. The wheel itself is also a little wider than the Matco which almost made the tire seem to small initially but after airing it up it looked good. It was my annual nose tire change time anyway and the grove wheel seems like a worthwhile upgrade and very reasonably priced. The folks at grove are great and a real pleasure to deal, outstanding service!
 
This is the 500x5 nose wheel rated at 800# off the Groves website. Is this the one you ordered for your 7A? I am about to order the finish kit, and would like to delete Vans nosewheel. Is there anything else that needs to be ordered with the nosewheel or does it come with all the bearings, spacers, etc for the Vans nosefork?

Also, I am interested in the Dresser nosewheel tire. I have them on the mains, but would like to put one on the nosewheel of the 7A. If you have the part number that would fit, I would appreciate it.

P/N 59-2A Aluminum
Price $249.00

P/N 59-2M Magnesium
Price $279.00

Thanks in advance. I just want to make sure that I order the right wheel and tire.
 
Walt said:
I also just recently swapped out the Van's wheel for the grove and noticed the same effect, I attributed it more to the new tire (new tread style from Dresser) than the wheel itself but maybe a combination of both.
Click to expand...

Hmm - based on your post, I'm guessing the wheel. For my new wheel - I used a tube and tire that was identical to the old Van's one.
 
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kevinh said:
Hi ya'll,

In one of the recent "A models are a nose-over waiting to happen, a sure deathtrap" threads :eek: I saw a note about the Grove nosewheel replacement.

I really didn't expect much change - but various folks theories about the current Van's nose dragging were interesting. Generally:
  • the rubber seals were somehow bad, and/or
  • using the axle bolt to set the preload was bad
I first noticed the much lower drag on the nosewheel - I could even tell a difference while pulling the plane around before taxi.

All three landings I did were noticeably different than my old Van's nose wheel. I did a couple more times around the pattern and this change was very noticeable.

Kevin
Click to expand...

This was the post... http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=231999&postcount=176 You can see in the pictures that the Grove is most like the pre 99 Van's issue and the way Piper does it.
 
Break out force question

Kevin - do you think that the 14 pounds are too high for the Van's front wheel? Could that be part of the turning issue of higher force needed than the other wheel?
 
Here's a theory to Kevin's experience

Kevin:

I think I know why you're experiencing a different sensation on landing. I had 64 hours & 129 landings on my 9A before bending the nose gear at San Diego.


The drag caused by the nose wheel bolt may be causing the front gear leg to flex backwards after the wheel settles to the ground. When the wheel encounters any undulation or any imperfection in the surface of the runway, it expands again, and moves forward. This flexing action may be raising the nose of the airplane just enough to cause it to fly (again) and lifts the wheel off the ground.

The front gear leg is serving as a spring and the front wheel goes up and down until the plane is slow enough, precluding further flight. At 63kts, that plane will still fly. Chet observed this on my 9 during a landing several months ago.

Yesterday, after much discussion with lots of people, I added a steel spacer between the two spacers that comes with Van's front wheel. It rides on the same bolt as the spacers but allows the thru bolt to be tightened w/o compressing the bearings enough to cause drag. The front wheel spins freely in the fork but has no wobble. I continued to reduce the length of the steel spacer until I achieved a freely spinning wheel.

It never made any sense to me to cause the spacers to drag against a rubber seal and bearings. It also never made any sense to add drag to the front wheel.

I'm still a few weeks from getting my plane back in the air and look forward to comments from others on this idea.

Barry
Tucson
 
Thanks guys for the good Pirep. I'm considering this mod myself. It just seems to be an all around better design.

I'm curious if the Grove nosewheel spins freely?
 
Webb said:
Kevin - do you think that the 14 pounds are too high for the Van's front wheel? Could that be part of the turning issue of higher force needed than the other wheel?
Click to expand...

The 22 lbs is for the big nut on the front (left to right pivot of the nosewheel fork) - not the axle nut. It is the same for either the old or new nosewheel.

When I was using the Van's nosewheel I kept the axle at the lower end of Van's recommended range (I don't remember what it was - but it is in the plans)

edit: I originally claimed 14 lbs for this nut from memory - the correct value is 22 lbs.
 
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14 lbs is below Vans breakout spec

I just set my nose breakout last weekend - Van's calls for 22lbs (using the fish scale) - I actually went to 24 lbs based on posts that it will loosen up. Won't 14 lbs be to little, possibly causing shimming??
 
22 is what is in the -9 plans.

MS19087 said:
I just set my nose breakout last weekend - Van's calls for 22lbs (using the fish scale) - I actually went to 24 lbs based on posts that it will loosen up. Won't 14 lbs be to little, possibly causing shimming??
Click to expand...

I wonder if the -7 call for something different?

I wouldn't set it higher initially. You will need to readjust this soon. After only 15 hours of flight mine when from 22 down to 14. You should just plan on adjusting this as it breaks in.

Kent
 
MS19087 said:
I just set my nose breakout last weekend - Van's calls for 22lbs (using the fish scale) - I actually went to 24 lbs based on posts that it will loosen up. Won't 14 lbs be to little, possibly causing shimming??
Click to expand...

Oops - I might be misinforming - I set it to whatever was in the plans. I keep my plans in the hangar and must have misremembered.
 
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MrNomad said:
".......At 63kts, that plane will still fly. Chet observed this on my 9 during a landing several months ago........"
Click to expand...
Maybe I am misreading something here, but the nosewheel should never be on the ground at 63 knots! Not on takeoff, and not on landing. :eek:
 
The link didn't work for me, had to sign in, I didn't bother, I don't have a password. Now this tire is interesting. When I ordered my main tires (from desser) I asked if they had a better tire than the China from vans, they said no. Do you have a part number. I will call them. Of course now I have the China tire installed and balanced :( Oh and the tire was way out of balance, over 2 ounces to correct.
 
MrNomad said:
Kevin:

SNIP

It never made any sense to me to cause the spacers to drag against a rubber seal and bearings. It also never made any sense to add drag to the front wheel.
SNIP

Barry
Tucson
[/SIZE]
Click to expand...

Barry, regarding the bearing design of ~post '99 vintages planes, there should be no relative motion between the rubber and the mushrooms, so drag between them is good, actually. The seals are attached to the inner portion of the wheel bearing, which should not rotate (it is on the mushrooms).

Just a clarification.

Good luck with the new setup - it should help stabilize things.
 
PCHunt said:
Maybe I am misreading something here, but the nosewheel should never be on the ground at 63 knots! Not on takeoff, and not on landing. :eek:
Click to expand...

Yeah - I'm not sure where this number came from, I suspect he misunderstood my original post.
 
THE SEAL DRAGS........

AlexPeterson said:
Barry, regarding the bearing design of ~post '99 vintages planes, there should be no relative motion between the rubber and the mushrooms, so drag between them is good, actually. The seals are attached to the inner portion of the wheel bearing, which should not rotate (it is on the mushrooms).

Just a clarification.

Good luck with the new setup - it should help stabilize things.
Click to expand...

THE SEAL DRAGS where it contacts the wheel. The O.D. of the seal and the I.D. of the wheel.
 
Most of you know that I have recently completed a 7A, and have just finished the Phase I hours. By the way, I had a 40 hour test program due to the Lightspeed ignition on the right side, mag on the left, and the SB/AD came out on the mag. :)
Anyway, I was waiting until I had some real time on the aiplane to comment regarding the nosewheel. I did change to the Grove wheel prior to first flight, because I did not like the tightness of the MATCO wheel when properly installed. It would not spin freely at all, and that was just against everything I've done with wheels, aviation or otherwise. I also balanced each wheel/tire assembly on the aircraft using a motorcycle wheel balancer, and did not install the gear leg stiffeners. I had installed stiffeners on my RV-10 and my RV-6. I was amazed at how much weight it took to balance the wheels/tires.
I am VERY HAPPY to tell you that I am VERY PLEASED with the performance. All taxi, take-off, and landing rolls are silky smooth. I am able to hold the nose off until about 40-43 knots, and when I do run out of elevator authority and it drops, it sticks, and there is absolutely no shimmy, bouncing or anything else. I am running 50 lbs. in all tires, and 25-27 lbs. on the nose fork nut. That nut did require retorquing after about 10 hours. I was amazed, but it did drop almost by half, so that nut does need checking when first installed.

Vic
 
vic syracuse said:
Most of you know that I have recently completed a 7A, and have just finished the Phase I hours. By the way, I had a 40 hour test program due to the Lightspeed ignition on the right side, mag on the left, and the SB/AD came out on the mag. :)
Anyway, I was waiting until I had some real time on the aiplane to comment regarding the nosewheel. I did change to the Grove wheel prior to first flight, because I did not like the tightness of the MATCO wheel when properly installed. It would not spin freely at all, and that was just against everything I've done with wheels, aviation or otherwise. I also balanced each wheel/tire assembly on the aircraft using a motorcycle wheel balancer, and did not install the gear leg stiffeners. I had installed stiffeners on my RV-10 and my RV-6. I was amazed at how much weight it took to balance the wheels/tires.
I am VERY HAPPY to tell you that I am VERY PLEASED with the performance. All taxi, take-off, and landing rolls are silky smooth. I am able to hold the nose off until about 40-43 knots, and when I do run out of elevator authority and it drops, it sticks, and there is absolutely no shimmy, bouncing or anything else. I am running 50 lbs. in all tires, and 25-27 lbs. on the nose fork nut. That nut did require retorquing after about 10 hours. I was amazed, but it did drop almost by half, so that nut does need checking when first installed.

Vic
Click to expand...

Well, if it's good enough for Vic, it's good enough for me. :) I just placed my order for the magnesium wheel.

Yesterday I went out and made a short local flight between two big fronts that came though. I did a couple of touch-n-go's just to get a real good feel for exactly what my nosewheel was doing. As mentioned by others, mine does tend to want to 'recoil' a little bit, even when set down very gently. I can only attribute this to the drag on the nosewheel drag being too high.

It will be interesting to see what happens with this nosewheel once we have a good sampling in the field. This wheel will obviously not prevent a nose gear collapse if it gets into a deep enough hole, but I do think (read: hope) it will eliminate the fore-aft shimmy. In my uninformed opinion, the fore-aft shimmy is decreasing the amount of precious clearance when it flexes aft, which can't be a good thing. Also, I wonder if the fore-aft shimmy is taking a toll on the gear leg and simply wearing it out?
 
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I first flew my 9a in March of 2006, currently have around 190 hrs on it, and have always had a slight nose wheel shimmy. I had adjusted the fork break out many times, tried several break out settings from 20 lbs up to 35, tried different nose tire pressures, changed nose gear tires, balanced the wheel/tire, and even "staked" my Matco mushroom bearings and lowered the bearing torque setting to the low end of the acceptable range. I also experimented with different speeds at which to lower the nose on landings from full elevator stall to 50 kts. Although several of the changes reduced the problem (most notably the "staking"), none eliminated the shimmy completely.

Last week I took delivery of the Grove magnesium nose wheel and bearing/axle assembly. Since install I have flown the plane around 2 hrs and have made 5 landings. I can report that if there is shimmy remaining, it is very slight. Additionally, I swear that the plane feels as though it accelerates better on take off-presumably due to the elimination of rotational resistance---however, this could be my imagination!! I can also report that landings are -- well "different" in that when the nose gear touches down I no longer get the slight nose dip that I did before.

Would all who have Matco nose wheels get this same result--can't tell ya however I am pleased with the improvement.

YMMV

Cheers,

db
 
db1yg said:
I first flew my 9a in March of 2006, currently have around 190 hrs on it, and have always had a slight nose wheel shimmy. I had adjusted the fork break out many times, tried several break out settings from 20 lbs up to 35, tried different nose tire pressures, changed nose gear tires, balanced the wheel/tire, and even "staked" my Matco mushroom bearings and lowered the bearing torque setting to the low end of the acceptable range. I also experimented with different speeds at which to lower the nose on landings from full elevator stall to 50 kts. Although several of the changes reduced the problem (most notably the "staking"), none eliminated the shimmy completely.

Last week I took delivery of the Grove magnesium nose wheel and bearing/axle assembly. Since install I have flown the plane around 2 hrs and have made 5 landings. I can report that if there is shimmy remaining, it is very slight. Additionally, I swear that the plane feels as though it accelerates better on take off-presumably due to the elimination of rotational resistance---however, this could be my imagination!! I can also report that landings are -- well "different" in that when the nose gear touches down I no longer get the slight nose dip that I did before.

Would all who have Matco nose wheels get this same result--can't tell ya however I am pleased with the improvement.

YMMV

Cheers,

db
Click to expand...


Did you balance the wheel? I had mine done and it was way out.
 
Hi Steve,

Yes, after I replaced the first nose tire due to it being extremely out of round, I had the new tire and wheel balanced at a motorcycle shop on a computer spin balancer. This was with the old Matco wheel and mine also took significant wt to get it in balance. It did not, however, fix the shimmy problem--just changed it slightly.

BTW, that same tire was mounted to the new Grove wheel without balancing and most, if not all, of the shimmy has disappeared. This leads me to believe that the shimmy, or most of it, was a forward/aft movement set up by the rotational resistance of the Matco system. This is just my opinion based on what I saw change on my airplane.

Cheers,

db
 
PIREP

Last night I went out and installed the new Grove magnesium nosewheel.

Installation was fairly straight-forward. Some folks mentioned that they had to use their old mushrooms, but my kit came with new mushrooms, the all-important spacer, bearings and pins to prevent the mushrooms from rotating.

One reason I wanted to install this mod was because of a discovery at annual this month. I noticed that the mushrooms on my Matco wheel had been rotating in the fork. I was going to do something about it (staking them as others have done) but decided to go ahead and go with the new wheel instead.

The only mod required to install the grove wheel is drilling the 1/8 inch holes for the anti-rotation pins. It's probably easiest to do this off of the plane with a drill press but I did it by first drilling a guide hole in an aluminum block, then clamping the block to the fork. This ensured a straight hole through the fork.

I installed the pins using my pneumatic squeezer. I put a flat die on the plunger and no die in the yoke. I centered the yoke hole over the inside edge of the hole and used the squeezer to push the pin into place. It worked perfectly with no pounding.

To pack the bearings I used one of those "Handy Packer" gizmos I picked up from Sears. I have to ask myself why I didn't buy one of those before! Very simple, no mess...done packing a bearing in 3 seconds flat.

Mounting the tube in this wheel seemed a bit easier than I remember on the Matco wheel. I had ZERO problems with pinching the tube. I'm not sure what the deal was, but it was certainly easier.

Just holding the Grove wheel and the Matco wheel in your hands you immediately get the impression that the Grove is just a much nicer wheel. The Grove mushrooms slide into the bearings so perfectly and there's almost no drag when spinning the mushroom in the bearing. With the Matco wheel there is considerable drag noticeable. I attribute this to the rubber seal on the Matco having a much higher coefficient of friction than the felt seal on the Grove.

My Matco wheel would stop instantly if you tried to spin it. I mean it wouldn't even make it a half turn. The Grove wheel is great! Yes, there is still a little drag in it, but it will easily spin.

After installing the new nosewheel I went for a short flight and did a couple of touch-n-goes.

Impressions:
I like the new nosewheel a lot better. I feel much more confident with it. The drag on the old nosewheel always bothered me. Yeah, I will always be careful with my nosewheel, but in my opinion this new Grove wheel should be shipping with Van's kits.
 
Vans main wheels

Are the main wheels as supplied in the Vans kit similar in setup as their nose wheel?

I plan to order a Grove nosewheel but am wondering if an increased improvement can also be had by all Grove?

Anyone gone all Grove and would like to comment?

Bevan
Rv7A
 
Jamie,

You mentioned pressed in pins with the Grove wheel. I am having a hard time picturing how pressed in pins work with being able to install and remove the wheel assembly from the wheel fork. Best guess is a single pin pressed into each side of the wheel fork, with a corresponding radial slot from the pin to the outside edge on each mushroom. Correct?


Been staring at my Matco wheel too long, and REALLY don't like the bearing setup, no spin when torqued......all while being mounted at the end of a spring. Seriously considering the Grove wheel.
 
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Stevea said:
Jamie,

You mentioned pressed in pins with the Grove wheel. I am having a hard time picturing how pressed in pins work with being able to install and remove the wheel assembly from the wheel fork. Best guess is a single pin pressed into each side of the wheel fork, with a corresponding radial slot from the pin to the outside edge on each mushroom. Correct?
Click to expand...

Yep, that is the deal. Very simple and effective. Mine is ready for install also, probably this weekend.
 
HOW IT WORKS

Stevea said:
Jamie,

You mentioned pressed in pins with the Grove wheel. I am having a hard time picturing how pressed in pins work with being able to install and remove the wheel assembly from the wheel fork. Best guess is a single pin pressed into each side of the wheel fork, with a corresponding radial slot from the pin to the outside edge on each mushroom. Correct?
.
Click to expand...

You can see how it works here...... http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=231999&postcount=176 ......Scan down to the second DWG from the bottom ......(BUT FIRST READ ALL OF THE THREAD)...... Look at the mushrooms, on the upper outer edge of each, you can see a white square. That is where the pin goes. It is a notch that allows the wheel assy to just drop out when the center bolt is removed.
 
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Bevan said:
Are the main wheels as supplied in the Vans kit similar in setup as their nose wheel?

I plan to order a Grove nosewheel but am wondering if an increased improvement can also be had by all Grove?

Anyone gone all Grove and would like to comment?

Bevan
Rv7A
Click to expand...

NO PROBLEM WITH THE MAIN WHEELS
 
Scott,

Good deal. Thanks for the reply. Looks like another order to add to the purchase list.

Already done the nose strut modification and new fork purchase. Might as well go all in!
 
Here are some pictures of the Grove nose wheel kit. I'm not flying yet, but I decided to make the change. I am also switching to the new Dresser nosewheel tire.

What's everyone going to do with the Matco wheels? Anybody got scooter plans?

PICT2708.JPG


PICT2710.JPG


PICT2713.JPG


PICT2712.JPG




PICT2716.JPG
 
I changed out the main wheels/brakes to Grove over a year ago and have been very satisfied, the increased braking power is very noticeable and I feel it was a worthwhile upgrade. At the same time I also installed the Grove master cylinders which are also better than the stock units. Installed the nose wheel about a month ago and am very happy with it as well. I would also like to mention the the folks at Grove (especially Gail) are super nice and a pleasure to do business with :)
 
Jamie said:
.Impressions:
I like the new nosewheel a lot better. I feel much more confident with it. The drag on the old nosewheel always bothered me. Yeah, I will always be careful with my nosewheel, but in my opinion this new Grove wheel should be shipping with Van's kits.
Click to expand...


My old RV6A came with a Cleveland wheel. Model number 40-77c I think it was. It worked great. When i built my 7A with the Matco, i noticed the drag issue and did not like it at all. The Cleveland wheel cost about $325 and the Matco is about 125 I think.. It is easy to see why Van's went to the Matco when you compare costs. I disliked the Matco enough that i bought the Cleveland, and a pair of spacers that Van still happens to stock. Van no longer has the 1 1/4 inch diameter aluminum axle is stock, so i had a friend with a lathe make one. I installed the new wheel assembly about 2 weeks ago, so i now have the same wheel and axle assembly that Van started the tri gear models with. What a positive improvement it was. The plane pulls in and out of the hanger easier. When landing, the nose wheel touches the pavement and stays on rather than bouncing back into the air. Most important of all, the fore and aft shimmey problem is gone. I have never done the nose gear service bulletin and don't intend to. FWIW my hanger mate has an original design Cleveland nose wheel and axle assemby and has well over 1000 hours on his airplane. All trouble free.

Steve Ciha
 
steveciha said:
My old RV6A came with a Cleveland wheel. Model number 40-77c I think it was. It worked great. When i built my 7A with the Matco, i noticed the drag issue and did not like it at all. The Cleveland wheel cost about $325 and the Matco is about 125 I think.. It is easy to see why Van's went to the Matco when you compare costs. I disliked the Matco enough that i bought the Cleveland, and a pair of spacers that Van still happens to stock. Van no longer has the 1 1/4 inch diameter aluminum axle is stock, so i had a friend with a lathe make one. I installed the new wheel assembly about 2 weeks ago, so i now have the same wheel and axle assembly that Van started the tri gear models with. What a positive improvement it was. The plane pulls in and out of the hanger easier. When landing, the nose wheel touches the pavement and stays on rather than bouncing back into the air. Most important of all, the fore and aft shimmey problem is gone. I have never done the nose gear service bulletin and don't intend to. FWIW my hanger mate has an original design Cleveland nose wheel and axle assemby and has well over 1000 hours on his airplane. All trouble free.

Steve Ciha
Click to expand...

Hi Steve:

Great info! I stand corrected on one point. I was told Cleveland stopped making that wheel, but apparently not!
 
Another brand...

...seems to be available.... but with more US $$$. Might be better for our EU-using VAF members though.

Reading my latest copy of EAA Sport Pilot, I found this ad for Beringer, a French company.

Check page 12 of their aviation catalog.

http://www.beringer.fr/cat/catPlaneEn.pdf

RV wheel, axle and tire for $558 - doesn't say which brand of tire though. They do claim a lighter overall weight.

gil A
 
Jamie said:
Hi Steve:

Great info! I stand corrected on one point. I was told Cleveland stopped making that wheel, but apparently not!
Click to expand...

Hi Jamie,
I didn't mean to correct you for sure! It took an email to Aircraft Spruce to find the Cleveland wheel. It wasn't listed in their catalog, but they had it in stock. The Grove may be just as good. I just went with what i knew would work. I am currently building an 8A and i plan to delete the Matco nose wheel from the finishing kit.

Steve Ciha
 
IF VAN SWITCHED............

steveciha said:
My old RV6A came with a Cleveland wheel. Model number 40-77c I think it was. It worked great. When i built my 7A with the Matco, i noticed the drag issue and did not like it at all. The Cleveland wheel cost about $325 and the Matco is about 125 I think.. It is easy to see why Van's went to the Matco when you compare costs. I disliked the Matco enough that i bought the Cleveland, and a pair of spacers that Van still happens to stock. Van no longer has the 1 1/4 inch diameter aluminum axle is stock, so i had a friend with a lathe make one. I installed the new wheel assembly about 2 weeks ago, so i now have the same wheel and axle assembly that Van started the tri gear models with. What a positive improvement it was. The plane pulls in and out of the hanger easier. When landing, the nose wheel touches the pavement and stays on rather than bouncing back into the air. Most important of all, the fore and aft shimmey problem is gone. I have never done the nose gear service bulletin and don't intend to. FWIW my hanger mate has an original design Cleveland nose wheel and axle assemby and has well over 1000 hours on his airplane. All trouble free.

Steve Ciha
Click to expand...

IF VAN SWITCHED to a GROVE ASSY KIT FOR THE A'S, I AM SURE HE COULD GET THEM AT AN OEM PRICE FROM GROVE. IT MAY ADD $100.00 TO A KIT, BUT SO WHAT! GROVE IS A BETTER WHEEL KIT.

MAYBE IF PEOPLE STOP ORDERING THE NOSE WHEEL KIT WHEN THEY ORDER THEIR KIT, AND TELL THEM THAT THEY ARE GOING TO USE GROVE, VAN'S MAY GET THE HINT....................
 
Rosie....where are you?

I wonder how many high time "A" flyers are have nose gear problems. Vans for one....of course he wouldn't admit it, how about Rosie. He is flying the daylights ;) out of a 6A. I would like to hear from him and other high timers, what their experience is with nose wheel gear problems.

From Rosie: As of 12/31/2009, I have 3085 hours on the original nose gear that came with my finishing kit in 1998. I've had absolutely ZERO problems (no shimmy, no collapse, etc) with this setup with over 10K landings. Treat the nosegear like a fine piece of China, and it will keep you safe :D
 
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Axle design not related to Matco/Cleveland

The solid axle did not go away when Van's went to the Matco wheel - at least not right away. I have a Matco wheel with the solid 1.25" solid axle. Finishing kit 1998 vintage.

There would appear to be at least three configurations:

Cleveland
Matco with 1.25" solid axle
Matco with mushrooms
 
I'm now getting more time on my Grove nose wheel installation. At the same time, I installed the "new" Aero Classic tire purchased from Dresser. I was already running my original setup with staked mushroom spacers so sloppy loose that I'm actually noticing more change in the tire swap. Don't get me wrong, the grove wheel is way better. However, I picked up a new major shimmy. I never had much of a problem before. I had the breakout force set to about 25 lbs. The new tire has a surface geometry that is a little different, maybe more crowned across the tread with less contact area. I think this is resulting in less tire drag when turning. In my installation, I had to crank the breakout force way up to about 30 lbs. to stop the shimmy (as tight as I could get it). The plane still steers easily. I'm keeping a close eye on it. I basically have the nut completely bottomed out. It won't turn any further. Next, I'll go back to the old Lamb tire if I continue to have the shimmy.
 
Wes Hays said:
This is the 500x5 nose wheel rated at 800# off the Groves website. Is this the one you ordered for your 7A? I am about to order the finish kit, and would like to delete Vans nosewheel. Is there anything else that needs to be ordered with the nosewheel or does it come with all the bearings, spacers, etc for the Vans nosefork?

Also, I am interested in the Dresser nosewheel tire. I have them on the mains, but would like to put one on the nosewheel of the 7A. If you have the part number that would fit, I would appreciate it.

P/N 59-2A Aluminum
Price $249.00

P/N 59-2M Magnesium
Price $279.00

Thanks in advance. I just want to make sure that I order the right wheel and tire.
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Interesting note, I just ordered one today. Called Grove and asked the girl on the phone if she knew what I wanted and she said I was the eight (8) one that she had sold today for the RVs. (59-2M) Apparently, there are a lot of folks doing this one and not a lot of fanfare about it.

Bill S
7a finishing (I think :-(
 
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