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David-aviator

Well Known Member
Our 4 man committee submitted a report to the trustees of our air park last Sunday. The proposal is out of our hands and now in theirs.

This season has been very no good for flying off of turf and everyone around here is aware of it. I managed to get air borne 4 times this month but should not have been doing it as the surface was partially frozen and quite slippery. That's the problem, guys with very expensive 4 seat airplanes can not fly for weeks and the way the weather is treating us, it will be well into April until all frost is gone and moisture content down. The big, big problem here is soil content, it is clay, the worst for moisture absorption.

Anyway, we came up with a plan to have a parallel asphalt surface 2100'x25' and will preserve as much of the grass as possible for those who prefer flying off of it during the summer months. We also propose that the grass area be completely reworked with a road trimmer and reseeded as long as the equipment is on the property. The airport continental divide will be where the asphalt meets the turf so there will be a 1% slope each way for water run off. The transition from turf to grass will be as smooth as possible.

So far, there is positive feed back from property owners. We hope to have a public hearing on the improvement in April and will see where it goes from there. The contractor we recommend is A+ with the BBB. They build roads normally, so this will be a piece of cake for them. They have the equipment and know how to use it. There will be 8" of base over a fabric stabilizing material and 3" of surface after rolling.

For those considering such an improvement - total cost will be about $145,000 including the grass rework. We think it will enhance property value, improve safety and provide for more regular flight operations. :)
 
Hi Dave,
Hope you can get it passed. I brought up the subject regarding the grass strip at the airpark where we own a lot and was immediately subjected to hate mail from people who didnt want a paved runway for whatever reason and was told to sell my lot and buy elsewhere so if anyone wants a lot at Aeroestates airpark in Texas, let me know.
 
One can make pavement last 10x longer by simply brooming on portland cement onto asphalt and misting it with water to get it to cure. This is a trick I've seen pavers do doing driveways in FL. The cement will lighten up the pavement which keeps the temps down and also seals it. You will never have to seal it if you do this trick. From a distance it looks just like concrete.
 
At least here in Texas, I can't see why anyone would rather have a turf runway over paved. The soil here is terrible and the weather all over the place. If you like to fly anytime other than summer, pavement is they way to go. Heck, I think my lawn has been soggy since September with no end in sight. I just don't see the attraction myself.
 
Do you have any pictures of the layout? Will each owner be responsible for taxiways or intersections?

Just for discussion, what type of base and how thick of pavement are you planning? Is the contractor local, or do they have to move in from a distance for just this job. Did they break down the bid to separate the grading and fill work from the actual paving? The price seems pretty good for a small project.
 
lancef53 said:
Do you have any pictures of the layout? Will each owner be responsible for taxiways or intersections?

Just for discussion, what type of base and how thick of pavement are you planning? Is the contractor local, or do they have to move in from a distance for just this job. Did they break down the bid to separate the grading and fill work from the actual paving? The price seems pretty good for a small project.
Click to expand...

sde336.jpg


Here is the lay out, about 2100'x25'.
We deleted the taxi ways on the drawing to save money. We will use
airpark roads for taxi ways if the turf is too wet to get to the runway. The east end which is to the right will have a turn around.
The base is rock, the same stuff they use for roads, 8". The surface will be
3" after rolling.
It is a local contractor. The bid is broken down. We decided it was best to
have one contractor do the entire job.
The project will be off and running as soon as we get a 2/3rds majority voting yes and collect the money. Each lot will be assessed their share of the project.
We already share mowing around here, it is a good group of people and we get along well.
 
Cool layout!! How many are on the site now? It seems like it should work well, it is nice to be able to get along with the neighbors.

Sounds like a good plan, it is always nice to be able to use local people.
 
Hopefully your contractor has included this, but if not make sure that subsurface drainage, tile, is added on both sides of the runway. This will greatly improve your grass strip as well. This will depend on the availabilty of an outlet but I note a road at one end and there may be a main drain there.
 
rocketbob said:
One can make pavement last 10x longer by simply brooming on portland cement onto asphalt and misting it with water to get it to cure. This is a trick I've seen pavers do doing driveways in FL. The cement will lighten up the pavement which keeps the temps down and also seals it. You will never have to seal it if you do this trick. From a distance it looks just like concrete.
Click to expand...

I think they used to do that at Zaragosa, Spain.

We were lined up behind a 4-ship of Spanish Phantoms running up for take off, when the lead two-ship's engines blasted several chunks of the surface off the runway and into the engines of the second two ship.

:eek:

I don't think this would be a problem for our little toys, but I would be interested to know if such a thin layer has a tendency to "flake off" over time? Or, if "sealing" the asphalt makes the runway cause water to pool when wet?
 
breister said:
I think they used to do that at Zaragosa, Spain.

We were lined up behind a 4-ship of Spanish Phantoms running up for take off, when the lead two-ship's engines blasted several chunks of the surface off the runway and into the engines of the second two ship.

:eek:

I don't think this would be a problem for our little toys, but I would be interested to know if such a thin layer has a tendency to "flake off" over time? Or, if "sealing" the asphalt makes the runway cause water to pool when wet?
Click to expand...

Surface sealing asphalt is expensive. It appears that no county, state or federal road with an asphalt surface is surface sealed. Cracks are filled as they occur but surface sealing is not done - except with private driveways - it looks good.

We considered concrete, it would be better, but the bottom line is money. I read one article on the internet that stated 94% of the roads in this country are asphalt, it is all about money. An asphalt road, like an asphalt runway, is so much better than dirt - why go to the expense of concrete. The feds can afford it spending deficit money but we can't.
 
David-aviator said:
Surface sealing asphalt is expensive. It appears that no county, state or federal road with an asphalt surface is surface sealed. Cracks are filled as they occur but surface sealing is not done - except with private driveways - it looks good.

We considered concrete, it would be better, but the bottom line is money. I read one article on the internet that stated 94% of the roads in this country are asphalt, it is all about money. An asphalt road, like an asphalt runway, is so much better than dirt - why go to the expense of concrete. The feds can afford it spending deficit money but we can't.
Click to expand...

It may be a different deal for the super-heavies (they might just make big grooves in the asphalt), but I agree that asphalt is the best landing strip for little birds. Smooth, doesn't cause water to pool (leading to hydroplaning); easy to repair, etc.
 
David-aviator said:
For those considering such an improvement - total cost will be about $145,000 including the grass rework. We think it will enhance property value, improve safety and provide for more regular flight operations. :)
Click to expand...

Dave, Any lots available on your airpark? If your plan goes through I would be interested in a lot (or home). I love my RV off pavement and my C-140 off grass. Tell the council their property value just went up as someone is interested in purchasing a lot.
 
breister said:
I think they used to do that at Zaragosa, Spain.

We were lined up behind a 4-ship of Spanish Phantoms running up for take off, when the lead two-ship's engines blasted several chunks of the surface off the runway and into the engines of the second two ship.

:eek:

I don't think this would be a problem for our little toys, but I would be interested to know if such a thin layer has a tendency to "flake off" over time? Or, if "sealing" the asphalt makes the runway cause water to pool when wet?
Click to expand...

Friend of mine has a pretty long driveway and did this cement trick to it. Ten years later it still looks like new, no cracks. Unless you look closely the driveway looks like its concrete.
 
rocketbob said:
Friend of mine has a pretty long driveway and did this cement trick to it. Ten years later it still looks like new, no cracks. Unless you look closely the driveway looks like its concrete.
Click to expand...

Nice to know, and doubtless completely safe - I'm pretty sure no 70,000 lb airplanes are taking off from my driveway any time soon!

:D
 
On the issue of asphalt vs. concrete, I once talked to an asphalt contractor who told me that the only way asphalt will 'stay put' is if it's regularly re-compacted. He said that's why roads survive better than parking lots or tennis courts. (Very easy to see here in MS, where we have very unstable soil.) One of the owners here on our strip has an asphalt driveway & I believe that it's been resurfaced twice in its ~20 year life. To be fair, I doubt that it has a proper base under it.

I'm interested in the portland cement trick; that's a new concept to me. Is this effectively a 'paint job' to seal over the asphalt, or an actual layer of cement? I need to pave my driveway & haven't even considered asphalt because of the problems I've seen around here.

Thanks,

Charlie
 
Plan on sealing

As a board member of our airpark we had to address our runway asphalt condition just last summer. Initially we had some of the same thoughts, sealcoating is just for the "new" look. But we did a lot of research and it is needed if you want it to last. Highways are different as stated earlier.

The good news is you don't have to sealcoat right away. Our runway and taxiways were approx 10 years old and were just showing signs of the binder starting to breakdown on the suface (can see color of stones and stones start to come loose) Last July we had the runway and taxiways sealcoated and repainted. It wasn't as bad as we thought, getting a good bid, coming in at around $27k, for 3,000ft runway and 2ea 3,000 foot taxiways. Were told we should be good for another 7+ years.

Might want to plan on buying a crack melter, so you can seal cracks as needed yourselves much cheaper. Something like an MA10

One good reference;
http://www.pavementpro.org/understanding.htm
http://pavementpro.com/forum/
 
We only have 19 members at WN55.
It was a gravel strip, and had gravel added several times over the years.
My wife is a board member, ( I was on the homeowners assoc.) and the cost of paving is just too high. Chip seal is too thin and temporary.
AOPA published the results of a State of Alaska trail to plant grass on high latitude gravel strips to reduce damage to aircraft.
This was affordable to us. Some communication with a local university for the best grass variety (a mix) and a Hydroseed contractor got us a plan.
The excess gravel overburden was removed and the grass seed applied last fall.
Now it's sprouted and starting to set, getting ready for spring.
We have good pumice drainage and native grass clumps in the 'taxiways' so we land on that for now. After a wait and see period there may be a sprinkler system, or more grass to replace the native clumps in the easments err, taxiways.
 
My research states that an asphalt sealcoat is needed about every three years. Maybe you can go longer but we have examples of ZERO maintenance on asphalt at my airport and you can tell the difference once you know what to look for.
 
The vote is in as of an owners meeting this afternoon.

The proposal to upgrade our air park runway to 2100'x25' of asphalt passed 27-8. We also will rework the grass area to get it more flat and smooth.

Now if only it will stop raining long enough to get the job done....:)
 
Perfo Mat

I apologize for being late with this, but there is another potential alternative:

In rainy England and Canada, several grass strips have installed Perfo matting to keep operating in wet conditions.

http://www.perfo-uk.com/airfields.html

http://www.perfo-uk.com/airfield/grassairstrip.html

http://www.perfo-uk.com/groundreinforcement.html

http://www.perfo-uk.com/costs.html

The interlocking Perfo tiles are probably relatively expensive, but it looks like the preparation and installation costs are low. The total cost appears to be competitive with, and probably less than, a proper asphalt or concrete installation. Also, after the grass grows through the gaps, you still retain the grass field look. Maintenance appears to be very low.

Here's the North American distributor for reference:

S2T GRASS REINFORCEMENT
65 Melbourne Ave
Toronto
ON M6K 1K6
Canada

Tel. +1 800 348 6120
Fax. +1 800 348 6121

[email protected]

Good Luck,

Bill Palmer :)
 
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We cut a 2100'x25' outline of the proposed asphalt runway and have testing take off and landing in that area. It is along the right (south) side of the existing grass area. Everyone reports it looks a little skinny when a mile out but once you get down near it for the flare, it will be fine.

The area north of the new runway will be filled, graded, trimmed and reseeded for grass operations. We hope to provide a smooth transition from the north edge of the asphalt to the grass so tail draggers with no forward vision can drift on or off it if need be. That probably won't be necessary as the asphalt will provide a good peripheral reference not currently present.

We've had much down time due to an unusual amount of rain the past 3 years. Plus there are more airplanes operating out of here than in the past so the sod gets beat up a lot. The sub soil is clay and not much good for absorbing moisture and when it does get saturated, it take many days to dry out. Redoing the sod runway with a porous fill was considered but it really would not cure the problem, the clay base would still trap water and act like a swimming pool after a heave rain. To design and install a drainage system with pipes would cost as much as asphalt.

Anyway, I hope it all works out as planned. I've been designated project manager so my butt is on the line. :)





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The Soft Stuff

David,

Making about 90% of my Rocket's landing on Turf I installed my previously mentioned larger 380X150X5 tires. The difference was noticeable and immediate, much improved. Being a lover of flying off-road most of my life, I wasn't going to let turf conditions dictate my flying schedule. Installing Alaska Bush Wheels notwithstanding.
Over time I learned that seeding Argentine bahaia grass intermingled with whatever you have growing helps quite a bit. Rolling the ground twice a year with a heavy roller really helps as well as aerating. Pavement being cost prohibitive for me, care of the grass has helped alot. Growing up around a Southern AG strip, the standard runway is 1/2 Grass, 1/2 Concrete or Asphalt, the takeoff end being paved, land the opposite way on grass. It might help cut your costs to pave a smaller portion, if that's an option. The other option is to sell your RV, buy a Highlander, land anywhere you want burning 4 GPH of premium MoGas:)

The thought has crossed my mind!

Smokey
HR2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lClG0aysbo&feature=related
Highlander In Action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21El16OPZoc&feature=related
"Wet Runway"
 
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David.
Project Manager eh? That will teach you......;)

Minor note. Moving the runway to the right (in the photo) puts it a nearer to that midfield hangar. Take a look at your state/FAA design standards; you don't want to get in a box regarding an OFA line (Object Free Area). Offhand I'm not sure your state regs specify one for a small private strip, but it is a factor in public airport layout.
 
Dan, that ship has probably sailed. For our public use area category (B1 ?), I think the OFA is 200 feet laterally.
 
We are moving dirt!!

The project is off of paper and moving forward for real. Airport currently closed but should be reopened by July 15, weather permitting.

The crew has been working just 4 days but making great progress. The TEREX TR-4503 road trimmer arrived yesterday morning and completed a final cut at about 7pm. Today crushed rock is being hauled in. After 8" of rock is in place, the trimmer comes back and levels it again and then we are ready for final 3" of asphalt. After that the area north of the runway is trimmed for the new grass strip.

Like I say, we are moving forward. :)



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I flew over last weekend and was surprise it was started. I typically make a recon flight every weekend to see if it has been started. I guess now I will need to fly recon every evening to check progress.
 
The runway is ready for asphalt as of about 4pm today. If the weather cooperates, it will begin at 8am tomorrow.

The new grass area adjacent to the hard surface is getting a first pass with the TEREX road planer.
It will be 40' wide and level with the edge of the asphalt - that should give the typical tail dragger pilot 65' of landing area width, if needed. :)



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