W

Wilma

I'm New Here
If you have any experience with this EFIS please let me know the good and the bad. I am considering putting the Horizon HX in my RV10 and would sure like to see it in operation first.
 
Hello Wilma - I see that you just joined up here on VAF - welcome!

You can do a search on "GRT+HX" using the search button, and read quite a bit about it.

Paul
 
Hi Wilma

I know you from the Search Dog Foundation - my wife is Sonja Donaldson, and we have fostered a couple of dogs for you. You also came up to Santa Ynez and gave me a ride in your -10 a year or two back

I have a Grand Rapids EFIS in my RV-7A and would be happy to talk to you about it if you like. You can reach me at 805 895 7423

best regards

erich weaver
 
GRT

Wilma

I upgraded the panel in my RV6 with an 8.7" GRT Sport in August, 2009. The Sport and the HX are quite similar in function (see the GRT website for model differences). Since August I have flown behind it for about 45 hours. Overall, I am extremely happy with it.

IMHO - Here are some of the pros and cons of the Sport (most of these also apply to the HX):

Pros:
- Excellent customer support from GRT
- Easy installation and wiring
- Synthetic approach is AMAZING!
- Excellent sunlight visibility
- Optional XM Weather
- Plain text weather (with XM Option) and airport info shown when you display the detail for a selected airport.
- Airspace nicely marked on MAP screens
- Easy programming/setup
- Endless number of features
- Free GPS database updates
- Free firmware updates
- Very well thought out failure modes

Cons:
- I personally do not care for the appearance of the EIS faceplate. This can be improved by purchasing an upgraded EIS faceplate cover.
- MAP screen Direct-to function slightly cumbersome.
- MAP screen a bit slow to update following a range change. (This may not apply to the HX since I am reasonably certain it has a different processor than the Sport)
 
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Thanks for your great response!

Jim Lewellyn said:
Wilma

I upgraded the panel in my RV6 with an 8.7" GRT Sport in August, 2009. The Sport and the HX are quite similar in function (see the GRT website for model differences). Since August I have flown behind it for about 45 hours. Overall, I am extremely happy with it.

IMHO - Here are some of the pros and cons of the Sport (most of these also apply to the HX):

Pros:
- Excellent customer support from GRT
- Easy installation and wiring
- Synthetic approach is AMAZING!
- Excellent sunlight visibility
- Optional XM Weather
- Plain text weather (with XM Option) and airport info shown when you display the detail for a selected airport.
- Airspace nicely marked on MAP screens
- Easy programming/setup
- Endless number of features
- Free GPS database updates
- Free firmware updates
- Very well thought out failure modes

Cons:
- I personally do not care for the appearance of the EIS faceplate. This can be improved by purchasing an upgraded EIS faceplate cover.
- MAP screen Direct-to function slightly cumbersome.
- MAP screen a bit slow to update following a range change. (This may not apply to the HX since I am reasonably certain it has a different processor than the Sport)
Click to expand...

Jim,
I greatly appreciate your thoughtful response to my query. I am going down this road carefully and you've been a great help with your specifics.

wilma
 
Super helpful video!

Ironflight said:
I have put a few videos of the HX on YouTube - you can go to this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu1Pqa1409Y

...and then look for additional videos from the same user (Ironflight). Might give you an idea of what they can do!

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul,
I watched the video dozens of times as I found it incredibly helpful. The video using synthetic vision at Big Bear is a real eye opener as well.

Now I hope I am using this response area correctly so that you receive my note.

Wilma
 
I gave some dual to a Doctor in a -9A...

....with two GRT screens and was amazed at their user friendliness and the many features. You can't go wrong with an HX.

Regards,
 
Wilma said:
Paul,
I watched the video dozens of times as I found it incredibly helpful. The video using synthetic vision at Big Bear is a real eye opener as well.

Now I hope I am using this response area correctly so that you receive my note.

Wilma
Click to expand...

Glad you foudn them useful Wilma. If you don't get a chance to see a system sooner, we will probably be out at Big Bear the week after Christmas, and there's a 50/50 chance we'll have my plane....or Louise's (with Dynon's).

Paul
 
How about an Integrated HSI on the GRT

Paul,

Nice work with the GRT demos -- keep it up!

I am currently flying with the GRT Standard Sport dual screen setup in my Lancair Legacy and I like it a lot.

But......GRT needs to understand that the HSI is not just a nice option to throw up on your screen -- IT IS A MANDATORY FULL TIME ITEM. You'll notice how everybody from Garmin to Rockwell Collins to Dynon understands this and puts it on their primary display full time.

David T.
Lancair Legacy
 
ditto

Ditto... this could be a decision maker for me. I'm a big fan of the ADI above an HSI, a la Aspen Avionics or BMA Sport G4 layout. Alas, one's too expensive, the other is out of business. Integrated, full time HSI on the GRT in some form might make the deal. Maybe the AFS layout is close?
 
dtaylor said:
Paul,

Nice work with the GRT demos -- keep it up!

I am currently flying with the GRT Standard Sport dual screen setup in my Lancair Legacy and I like it a lot.

But......GRT needs to understand that the HSI is not just a nice option to throw up on your screen -- IT IS A MANDATORY FULL TIME ITEM. You'll notice how everybody from Garmin to Rockwell Collins to Dynon understands this and puts it on their primary display full time.

David T.
Lancair Legacy
Click to expand...

While I am not really that fanatical about keeping the HSI up full time (I personally use a moving map now more often than an HSI display - more intuitive - just keep the airplane on the magenta line!), I agree that you want it below the ADI/PFD, which is why I am a big fan of two displays, one above the other. It's still cheaper (I think?) to put in two GRT displays than a single Aspen or Garmin. If you don't mind the HSI BESIE the PFD, you can easily do that split screen on the GRT - that's how Dynon does it with one screen. AS long as your screen is wider than it is tall, it's tought to put the HSI below with a single screen.

I now have two HX's, one above the other, and the map in terrain mode on the bottom is very impressive.

(I usually bring up the HSI for approaches only - enroute, I have a split screen Systems/HSI on the bottom.)

Paul
 
I have two GRT screen (HX & HS) and amazed as how well every thing works. I am currently doing my IFR training and every time I fly, I find a new feature that helps the flying IFR easier, just like in the demo. Also, their service and support has been A+++, can't say enough of it.

Good luck
Mehrdad
RV7A - IO360M1B
 
HSI in IFR flight

The HSI is not just a thing to look at for approaches and needles, it is the primary orientation mechanism when you are flying in the system talking to ATC and managing headings. I suspect that you need to fly regularily in the system talking to ATC to appreciate the importance of the HSI. There is no way in **** any pros would fly for more than 2 minutes without one in front of them.
 
Big Bear Visit After Christmas

Ironflight said:
Glad you foudn them useful Wilma. If you don't get a chance to see a system sooner, we will probably be out at Big Bear the week after Christmas, and there's a 50/50 chance we'll have my plane....or Louise's (with Dynon's).

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul,
If you do take your plane to Big Bear after Christmas would you be good enough to let me know? Although I'm scheduled to fly to Sedona I will make every effort to meet you in Big Bear. So far I have had no response from others who may have the equipment I'm interested in. After a negative happening with Blue Mountain I'm convinced I need to see the Horizon HX in operation in a plane.

Here's how to reach me:
Cell: 805-746-1273
Email: [email protected]

Many thanks,
Wilma
 
Wilma

When we talked on the phone, you mentioned that you would also check into the Advanced FLight System EFIS. This recent post from the head of that company has some good photos of it with the synthetic vision. Not trying to talk you out of the Grand Rapids ( I love mine) - just a little more info to chew on.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=51435


erich
 
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dtaylor said:
The HSI is not just a thing to look at for approaches and needles, it is the primary orientation mechanism when you are flying in the system talking to ATC and managing headings. I suspect that you need to fly regularily in the system talking to ATC to appreciate the importance of the HSI. There is no way in **** any pros would fly for more than 2 minutes without one in front of them.
Click to expand...

Well, actually there are lots of pros flying around in the IFR system with systems that are more advanced than a simple HSI representation. The HSI was an absolute miracle when it appeared, and once I'd flown with one, I didn't want to go IFR without it - until more advanced representations of position came along. It's not the instrument that is important, it is the INFORMATION that you get from the instrument that counts. the HSI gives you positional information, and it was the best there was at the time - now it is even better. I usually have the HSI superimposed on the moving map BTW - the best of all worlds - at least until something better comes along...

Paul
 
Clarification

Im really not being clear here. Let me clarify -- im not really talking about the HSI in particular. I'm talking about the HEADING INDICATOR WITH AUTOPILOT CONTROL BUGS. (Our electronic systems just use an HSI for this.)

I'm saying there are ABSOLUTELY NO SERIOUS EFIS SYSTEMS ON THE MARKET THAT DO NOT HAVE THIS FULL 360 DEGREE CIRCULAR COMPASS BELOW THE ATTITUDE DEPICTION ON THE PRIMARY DISPLAY. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS -- IT IS NOT JUST A WEIRD COINCIDENCE. IT IS NEEDED FOR IFR FLIGHT -- FULL TIME.

dave t.
 
Dave,
Will you please elaborate a bit more on the practical use of HSI in IFR condition ? I am currently going thru my IFR training and have dual GRT screens. I find myself not liking the HSI nearly as much with the exception of when I have to use the VOR and even then once the course is set, I seem to be following the needle on the PFD instead of the HSI. But in case of being on approaches, following headings from ATC, etc I find it easier just to use the PFD as the primary screen. Am I missing some essential parts by mostly ignoring the HIS?

I appreciate your feedback

Thanks
Mehrdad
RV7A - IO360M1B
P.S. One very useful use of it I found was doing DME arch.
 
dtaylor said:
Im really not being clear here. Let me clarify -- im not really talking about the HSI in particular. I'm talking about the HEADING INDICATOR WITH AUTOPILOT CONTROL BUGS. (Our electronic systems just use an HSI for this.)

I'm saying there are ABSOLUTELY NO SERIOUS EFIS SYSTEMS ON THE MARKET THAT DO NOT HAVE THIS FULL 360 DEGREE CIRCULAR COMPASS BELOW THE ATTITUDE DEPICTION ON THE PRIMARY DISPLAY. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS -- IT IS NOT JUST A WEIRD COINCIDENCE. IT IS NEEDED FOR IFR FLIGHT -- FULL TIME.

dave t.
Click to expand...

The panel pictured below flies IFR just fine without an HSI and with the 360 deg compas to the left of the attitude indicator. It has been flying IFR in the system since before you were born. Apparently it did not know the compas had to be below the attitude indicator full time.
aaaaExisting_Panel_Small.jpg


I would also note that the BMA G4 Sport does not (as you suggest above) have a full time HSI below the ADI. It is rather configurable as noted in the photos below.
100_1001_Small.jpg

100_1002_Small.jpg

100_1003_Small.jpg


It is my personal preferance when "flying in the system" to have my HSI to the right of the ADI and a moving map below the ADI.

Like Paul when VFR I just follow the purple line and do not evn have the HSI visible.

Dynon, AFS and GR are serious viable systems no matter where the HSI or 360 degree compass is relative to the ADI.
 
Full 360 Circular Compass?

dtaylor said:
I'm saying there are ABSOLUTELY NO SERIOUS EFIS SYSTEMS ON THE MARKET THAT DO NOT HAVE THIS FULL 360 DEGREE CIRCULAR COMPASS BELOW THE ATTITUDE DEPICTION ON THE PRIMARY DISPLAY. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS -- IT IS NOT JUST A WEIRD COINCIDENCE. IT IS NEEDED FOR IFR FLIGHT -- FULL TIME.

dave t.
Click to expand...

Really? Neither Boeing nor Airbus (A380 ) displays a "full 360 degree compass" below the primary display. Boeing displays a partial compass arc below the attitude indicator:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/Boeing-767-432-ER/0100119/L/

And the A380 has a heading tape below the attitude indicator:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Airbus_A380_cockpit.jpg

No 360 degree heading representation on either of those, and last I checked Airliners always fly IFR.

Skylor
 
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