[David-aviator]

....and gusty windy day, I've been searching for something that is comfortable.

With a nose wheel, it is common practice to hold the aircraft on the runway with forward stick, some aileron into wind, and when reaching flying speed, smoothly apply back pressure and the aircraft breaks ground clean without skipping sideways.

With the tail wheel it different. Yesterday I attempted to raise the tail so as to hold the aircraft down until reaching flying speed but nearly lost it going from tail wheel steering to rudder steering. There's a dead zone in there and I was not able to come through it nicely. The aircraft did not leave the 25' runway before flying off but it was close.

Today I tried holding the 8 on the runway with full aft stick for steering with tail wheel until 55-60 knots, relaxed the back pressure a bit and just like that the aircraft broke ground clean, a slight turn into wind to crab and all was well.

That will be my technique until something better comes along.

How do you high time TW guys manage a cross wind take off?

 

[newt]

Start the takeoff roll with full backstick. Move the stick forward to lift the tail approaching 40-ish knots (give or take -- after the airspeed-alive observation, I'm rarely looking at the ASI). Anticipate needing rudder as the tail comes up.

Hold the takeoff attitude until the plane is ready to fly. A slight twitch of into-wind aileron for a fraction of a second when it feels like it wants to take off breaks it off the ground and takes care of the first couple of seconds of drift correction. Once it's out of ground effect I can lower the into-wind wing to track runway heading.

Can't say I think about it much while it's happening, though. It just kinda flows.

- mark

 

[crabandy]

Not a high time TW guy (RV7) but I just keep the tail on the ground a smidge longer to build up more speed. Not sure exactly exactly how much more, based more on feel. Probably bring the tail up around 45 instead of 35 knots. I have brought the tail up too early on stronger crosswinds before and about the time I realized the rudder was lacking authority I had accelerated enough it wasn't a problem.

 

[PCHunt]

It also helps a bunch if you start the takeoff roll with the aileron held into the crosswind. Then as you bring the tail up, continue to hold the upwind wing down, perhaps even lifting the downwind wheel off just before the upwind wheel.

You might be amazed how much this helps with the swerving.

So, if you do this, you will find yourself airborne with a crosswind correction in. Once you are safely away from the runway (doesn't take long in an RV), then you can take out the crosswind correction, and climb out in a crab, with the ball in the center.

BTW, same thing for nosewheel equipped aircraft.

 

[ColoRv]

Took off with a 12 knot quartering tailwind today. Kept the tail on the ground a tad longer than typical, but the thrust of these planes gives you tail authority pretty quickly. I expect a bit of a waggle as the tail comes up, so when it happens it's no bid deal. Anyone who has ever sat in a KAPA line waiting for jet departures knows if they will give you 10, you take it....tailwind be dammed.

Don't forget the ailerons when it comes to takeoff. Once you have that down, it's no different than any other departure.

 

[Toobuilder]

Lots of aileron into the wind, reducing as you build speed on the takeoff roll

Hold the tail down a little longer before raising

Hold the mains on a little longer

"Pop" the airplane off 2 feet and let it crab as required.

 

[RV8iator]

Fly the airplane!

 

[David-aviator]

Fly the airplane!

2100 hours of 8 time vrs 100, good advice.
Sort of know that and no bent metal so far, just trying to get better at it, flying the airplane is what it's all about.

 

[luddite42]

Today I tried holding the 8 on the runway with full aft stick for steering with tail wheel until 55-60 knots, relaxed the back pressure a bit and just like that the aircraft broke ground clean, a slight turn into wind to crab and all was well.

That will be my technique until something better comes along.

Few use that technique due to the potential for a gust to pick you up before you are ready. Two things to manage on x-wind takeoff - directional control on the ground, and drift control as you lift off. Directional control is all about learning the speeds at which your rudder will provide sufficient authority. Left x-winds require more rudder for reasons that should be obvious. So as others have suggested, start the T/O run with the tailwheel held firmly, but I'd suggest not keeping it down for so long. The RV-8 should have sufficient rudder authority well below 55-60KT. Raise the tail at whatever speed will provide rudder authority. This is done more by feel and experience than 'by the numbers'.

As far as the lift off itself goes, this can be done a couple of ways - purely pilot preference. As already mentioned, some run down the runway with the tail high, lots of weight on the mains, and then 'pop' the airplane off the runway quickly with excess speed to ensure no settling as they correct immediate drift by crabbing into the wind.

A more artful way of doing it IMO is to use the controls such that the airplane takes off from a more normal attitude and liftoff speed, but with the ailerons and rudder used such that immediately after lift off, you are flying in a slip which perfectly cancels the x-wind, aligning the fuselage with the runway, and tracking the centerline with no drift. Hold that for a couple of seconds until you are positively clear and not going to settle back onto the runway, and then remove the slip inputs for a perfect climbout in a crab. This technique involves lifting off while rolling on one wheel with a wing low. It's simply the reverse of what you do when landing in a x-wind.

Whatever gets it done. Adjust as required for very gusty conditions. In moderate x-winds without severe gusts/shear you can make it look pretty. When things get really nasty throw pretty out the window and just get in the air safely.

 

[Jrskygod]

Not Rocket Science

This is not Rocket Science, just ask Paul. Jerry is right on. Just fly the plane. Get a good airplane specific tailwheel check out and go fly. Not one technique is a cure all as there are so many variables. These planes are very forgiving and if you aproach the limits you will know. Always leave yourself an out and take baby steps as your skill set increases.

As an engineer I was always asking my instructor " how much rudder do I use or how much aileron?" His reply was always the same "Just enough to get the job done and keep the nose straight and on centerline" To my question " what if I don't have enough" he would reply "go find another more favorable runway" or "probably shouldn't be flying that day"

So on short final and flare, if I can't maintain runway centerline, I go somewhere else. On takeoff it's the same - keep the nose straight what ever it takes. Aileron, rudder even a little brake on one side. These planes make it pretty easy. Just try a gusty day in a cub or champ and you'll get a new appreciation for what a tailwheel plane is capable of doing.

Just my .02.

 

[David-aviator]

Few use that technique due to the potential for a gust to pick you up before you are ready. Two things to manage on x-wind takeoff - directional control on the ground, and drift control as you lift off. Directional control is all about learning the speeds at which your rudder will provide sufficient authority. Left x-winds require more rudder for reasons that should be obvious. So as others have suggested, start the T/O run with the tailwheel held firmly, but I'd suggest not keeping it down for so long. The RV-8 should have sufficient rudder authority well below 55-60KT. Raise the tail at whatever speed will provide rudder authority. This is done more by feel and experience than 'by the numbers'.

As far as the lift off itself goes, this can be done a couple of ways - purely pilot preference. As already mentioned, some run down the runway with the tail high, lots of weight on the mains, and then 'pop' the airplane off the runway quickly with excess speed to ensure no settling as they correct immediate drift by crabbing into the wind.

A more artful way of doing it IMO is to use the controls such that the airplane takes off from a more normal attitude and liftoff speed, but with the ailerons and rudder used such that immediately after lift off, you are flying in a slip which perfectly cancels the x-wind, aligning the fuselage with the runway, and tracking the centerline with no drift. Hold that for a couple of seconds until you are positively clear and not going to settle back onto the runway, and then remove the slip inputs for a perfect climbout in a crab. This technique involves lifting off while rolling on one wheel with a wing low. It's simply the reverse of what you do when landing in a x-wind.

Whatever gets it done. Adjust as required for very gusty conditions. In moderate x-winds without severe gusts/shear you can make it look pretty. When things get really nasty throw pretty out the window and just get in the air safely.

Thanks, good info, appreciate your time to write it.

 

[Chkaharyer99]

Thank you

Few use that technique due to the potential for a gust to pick you up before you are ready. Two things to manage on x-wind takeoff - directional control on the ground, and drift control as you lift off. Directional control is all about learning the speeds at which your rudder will provide sufficient authority. Left x-winds require more rudder for reasons that should be obvious. So as others have suggested, start the T/O run with the tailwheel held firmly, but I'd suggest not keeping it down for so long. The RV-8 should have sufficient rudder authority well below 55-60KT. Raise the tail at whatever speed will provide rudder authority. This is done more by feel and experience than 'by the numbers'.

As far as the lift off itself goes, this can be done a couple of ways - purely pilot preference. As already mentioned, some run down the runway with the tail high, lots of weight on the mains, and then 'pop' the airplane off the runway quickly with excess speed to ensure no settling as they correct immediate drift by crabbing into the wind.

A more artful way of doing it IMO is to use the controls such that the airplane takes off from a more normal attitude and liftoff speed, but with the ailerons and rudder used such that immediately after lift off, you are flying in a slip which perfectly cancels the x-wind, aligning the fuselage with the runway, and tracking the centerline with no drift. Hold that for a couple of seconds until you are positively clear and not going to settle back onto the runway, and then remove the slip inputs for a perfect climbout in a crab. This technique involves lifting off while rolling on one wheel with a wing low. It's simply the reverse of what you do when landing in a x-wind.

Whatever gets it done. Adjust as required for very gusty conditions. In moderate x-winds without severe gusts/shear you can make it look pretty. When things get really nasty throw pretty out the window and just get in the air safely.

Thank you for describing it.