AndyRV7

AndyRV7

Well Known Member
Hi,

I am still trying to come up the GPS curve and am hoping someone can simplify things for me. I got my private certificate Monday and would love to purchase a handheld GPS as kind of a graduation present of sorts (my rentals are pretty light on nav equipment). I've been interested in the Garmin 496/495, and now, I like the looks of the AV8OR as well. The size of the screen on the Garmin has always been something that had to be tolerated, not celebrated. In practice though, it might be plenty big enough!?

To try to keep this simple and focused, what I would like to understand is weather capabilities, and the differences between the Bendix and Garmin units, from a features standpoint. Obviously they are both moving map GPS units, but beyond that feature, I don't know enough about the equipment to know what is most appropriate for me. Also, with the weather function, is that primarily an IFR feature? That is, as a brand new low-timer, I can't imagine needing a GPS to tell me if I should be flying or continuing to fly a route. I have to believe that I will be sitting on the ground if there is any question about weather. But I could be wrong about the utility of the weather feature in practice??

So if anyone can patiently help me understand some of these issues, that would be a great start!!:)

Thanks. Andy
 
AndyRV7 said:
Also, with the weather function, is that primarily an IFR feature? That is, as a brand new low-timer, I can't imagine needing a GPS to tell me if I should be flying or continuing to fly a route. I have to believe that I will be sitting on the ground if there is any question about weather.
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Hello Andy,

I can't help you with a comparison, as I haven't seen a Bendix unit. I do have quite a bit of flight time with the Garmins, and find the XM weather to be indispensable for cross-country flying - VFR or IFR. In fact, since getting XM in the cockpit, I have flown less IFR than every before! I've written quite a bit on how I use the data to make informed decisions - the bottom line is that the weather information you receive in the cockpit is as close to real-time as you can get, and it will tell you a lot about what is both ahead and behind you. This helps in making Go/No Go decisions, and protecting your retreat. When you see ugly weather ahead, you can see at a glance if it is isolated, and you can go around, or need to sit it out. With RV range and speed, it is reasonable to make fairly large deviations on a long cross country, and XM in the cockpit gives you the data you need without having to land and check things out on the 'net - or try and build a mental picture from what you hear on Flight Watch.

The short answer is "YES!" XM weather is a great tool for the VFR pilot to STAY VFR, stay safe, and stay out of trouble, assuming that you are going more than 50 miles from home on a regular basis. I am sure that more products will be coming along, and it will always be tough to decide to buy now, or wait - the Garmins have been great, but I'm sure competition (and evolution) will bring us even more choices. But in my opinion, XM is the greatest enhancement in general aviation cross-country flying since the invention of the wing....;)

Paul
 
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Congratulations!

First off... Congratulations to you for achieving a goal that most people will never even venture to start. As far as GPS units go.... I love my Lowrance 600C for a handheld gps. I have a 396 hardwired to my dash that gives me everything I need. I really would not even consider any other GPS units for now. The Samsung looks pretty trick. I don't know if I would spend the money on a 496 yet. Best of luck!
Best
Brian Wallis
 
Congadulations on your PPL Andy

I can throw out a little comparison FWIW-
I like the 495 we fly in our 6A. It has the large database including safe-taxi and enroute Center Freq. etc. We just looked at the bendix unit and the only thing I don't like is the touch screen. It's hard to get that pen into the place you want it on the screen in turbulance. I have tried that with the PDA unit and it is difficult. Then you drop the pen on the floor.. out goes those types of units for me. We also have a large number of Lorance 2000C units flying in our group. Us older guys like the big screen and vertical orientation. I think it is the best bang for the GPS buck. As for WX, I don't do enough to justify the $50 month cost. When long cross countries means 200 miles, that length can be chewed up in an hour in a RV. So the preflight WX brief works fine for 90% of our flying. I would consider the AV80r unit if it wasn't so bumpy up here in the mountains...Just my $.02- hope that helps
 
Congratulations.

I'm one to look at experimental aviation as exactly that - experimental. Look at all the great innovations that have come from this part of aviation. I also like some of the economy related to experimental aviation and that is primary bias my response to your question will show. Of course, the system I use and recommend is also innovative.

For many years, I've used the Anywhere Map product. You can acquire your own hardware (I currently use both an HP hx4750 and a Dell x51v Axim with bluethooth gps receivers). The Anywhere Map license and update service are comparatively inexpensive and are well supported. You can also upgrade to XM weather, but I have not done that yet. Database updates are monthly and TFRs are every 4 hours (easily done via the internet).

With the devices you have flexibility for other uses also - I have an automobile mapping system on my Dell that works great. You also have the whole suite of Windows Mobile products available and wireless and bluetooth, etc., etc.

I am also able to hook up my hx4750 to my MS FSX and have the flight simulator drive the Anywhere Map gps. If I am planning a trip to somewhere that I have not been, I can fly the trip on my simulator and be that much more prepared. It is also a great way to learn the functionality of your gps by practicing at home!

The list of benefits and flexibility is long. Do your due diligence. Some folks may not like Anywhere Map, but it is usually because of the 'techie' requirement, not the robustness and value of the offering.

Good luck with your new ability to continue learning.
 
AZtailwind said:
Congadulations on your PPL Andy

Then you drop the pen on the floor.. out goes those types of units for me.
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I solved the pen problem -- drilled a hole in the little plastic pen, got some elastic string / thread type stuff at a craft store and tied the rig beside my seat. It can hang there the whole flight (but I also have a neat little hole that it stows in).

If that has a malfunction (and it has not for many years), I always have the extra one on the side of the PDA or extra extra one on the second PDA that I use for display of my artificial horizon (and other GPS steering and navigation fuctions).
 
496

I fly my medivac helicopter in weather I would not venture into in my Tri-Pacer or my RV, when completed. Like others have said, my 496 with XM helps keep me VFR and around storms, especially flying at night. I find it to be, literally, a lifesaver, not only the weather, but the terrain avoidance feature keeps me safe at night flying in territory my company considers "Hostile/Mountainous". You may not need it on a day to day PPL basis, but it you ever do, you will be glad you had it. Hope this helps.
 
Wow, that's all good info and some things I didn't even think of (like weather at night).

I called and spoke to a really patient guy at the shop I've bought all my pilot supllies from, after I posted this. He had a 496 and gave me the low-down on it. I was a little smarter (and leaning toward weather) after I got off the phone. But he said the same thing, if you fly X-C, the weather has proven to be well worth the expense, if not, maybe you don't need it. He also said the weather was very accurate in a real-world sense. It sounds like you guys agree!?

One other thing though before I go and look at the other units mentioned here. He said that you could derive accurate cloud cover and cloud base info. I would think that would be at least as valuable as (maybe more than), the ability to see a thunderstorm. What I mean is not that convective weather is not a great threat, but depending on your location, you might be far more likely to run into a low layer ahead than a big column. In those cases, I would think you could decide to continue if you could tell the layer was above say 4000' for example. Is the XM weather actually able to give you this weather in a reliable way?

Thanks again for the congratulations too. I AM excited to keep learning now!!
 
AndyRV7 said:
...He said that you could derive accurate cloud cover and cloud base info...
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You can get METARs with XM weather. These are the same station based observations you could get from Flight Service or other sources. They cover one specific location and are generally issued once an hour unless changes meet "Special" criteria.

XM weather gives no cloud base information in areas where there is no aviation weather reporting. The only cloud coverage information available is a type of satellite photo that gives very general and non-detailed information and that may not show low clouds at all.
 
One more thing that the Garmin with XM weather offers, is it will show any TFRs that happen to pop up.

Out here in wildland fire country, that is kinda nice.

Sure do wish Garmin made a screen the size of my AvMap---------Oh, wait they do, just costs megabucks.
 
Mike S said:
One more thing that the Garmin with XM weather offers, is it will show any TFRs that happen to pop up.

Out here in wildland fire country, that is kinda nice.

Sure do wish Garmin made a screen the size of my AvMap---------Oh, wait they do, just costs megabucks.
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The guy on the phone told me that too. I think that sounds great. How often do they update? That is, how long after a TFR is issued will it be on the screen?
 
Sorry, I dont know the answer-------------the unit updates info every few minutes, but I have no idea how often the TFR data is added to the info stream.
 
I love my Lowrance 2000c. It has no weather capability but then again it's in the $600 range as opposed to the $2000 range for the 496. You can also use the GPS in the car or a boat if you buy those databases.

You do WANT to update your database on a 28 day cycle and that runs you around $35/month or about $300 for a year. There is probably a similar cost with any GPS you chose.

You are not required to update your database, however I have run into a couple of intances where my frequencies were wrong due to an expired database. Bottom line is, you don't have to spend the $35/mo but it's a good idea.
 
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Andy,

Congrats on the PPL! That is big, very BIG!!!

I have been flying with a 496 for a year now and have the basic weather service turned on. It is cool to be flying along and see the 496 show some rain or snow and then look up and see each rain or snow cloud right where it showed it.

The pop-up TFR thing has been a license saver and was one of the main reasons I went with it.

The other real advantage to the 496 vs. the 495 or some others is that it has the entire North American road database. More than once we have landed somewhere, pooped the 496 out of the AirGizmo and used it to find our destination.
 
Old timer story, and those Compass, Sectionals and VOR thingies

AndyRV7 said:
Hi,

I got my private certificate Monday and would love to purchase a handheld GPS as kind of a graduation present of sorts (my rentals are pretty light on nav equipment). I've been interested in the Garmin 496/495, and now, I like the looks of the AV8OR as well. The size of the screen on the Garmin has always been something that had to be tolerated, not celebrated. In practice though, it might be plenty big enough!?

(if money is no object, Garmin or Lowrance makes nice units. You want something small and has good battery life so you don't have to plug it in and have cords going every where. A big screen is nice but also takes up room.)

To try to keep this simple and focused, what I would like to understand is weather capabilities, and the differences between the Bendix and Garmin units, from a features standpoint. Obviously they are both moving map GPS units, but beyond that feature, I don't know enough about the equipment to know what is most appropriate for me. Also, with the weather function, is that primarily an IFR feature?

(As a new private pilot you have a little time to worry about flying in and around weather and IFR, however like most "computer/electronic" purchase, getting the best you can afford is usually a good thing, but I think may be a low cost used one might serve you well. You seem to be a little picky about the screen size? Frankly I still rock a Garmin 195 gray scale. Color is nice but so what. I must admit terrain avoidance is a nice thing I don't have; however I solve that by flying above MSA on X-C or knowing the obstacles in my local area. Most all GPS will warn you of approaching restricted airspace. Saved my behind once in the south west where some restricted areas can pop up in the middle of no where. Again a sectional is still handy. Having the ability to upgrade to in-flight WX in the future is real nice. As far as I know, XM radio is the main deal and it cost you a good chunk monthly. Are you going to be using it enough?)

(I suspect you will fly a couple of handful of hours local each month. In cockpit/in-flight weather is not needed usually for local boring holes in the sky or T/G's locally. My advice is get a cheap used Garmin 195 or Lowrance for rental flying. One that uses AA's is nice. You can buy a slug of NiMH rechargeable batteries and keep a spare set ready to go. Learn to use that basic GPS well and than upgrade later. There is no need to spend $800, $1,700 or $2,300 on your first GPS when you can get one used to do 85% of the same thing for $100. Even a Lowrance 600C is $450 new. All you really need its NAV, distance, course, ground speed. Next is the data base and map display, landmarks, other airports plus the data-base with runway and freq info. Next on my list is terrain warnings and than WX. Since you are a fresh pilot learn to use the map and pilotage, look out the windscreen for traffic.)

That is, as a brand new low-timer, I can't imagine needing a GPS to tell me if I should be flying or continuing to fly a route. I have to believe that I will be sitting on the ground if there is any question about weather. But I could be wrong about the utility of the weather feature in practice??

(sure its great to have a in cockpit weather display. However you will be flying what kind a plane, a rental Cessna or Piper. They are fairly slow and you will have a brief and weather picture in your mind before departure. To get weather you will look out the weather. If the weather looks low or you have any anxiety, turn around and land. Most of your flying will be local I suspect. If you really are doing a lot of cross country travel than get the WX feature and subscription if you can aford it. Where do you live? In Seattle there is little convective activity and lots of marine and low stratus, vis limited by mist and rain. You don't need radar for that. If you live in areas of the US with lots of Convective activity (thunderstorms) than a WX display may be justified.)

So if anyone can patiently help me understand some of these issues, that would be a great start!!:) Thanks. Andy
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I learned when all we had was a VOR. DME was a rare luxury. You spent you time (IFR) using time x dist calcs or crossing radials to guess where you where along an airway, may be a NDB fix. Than LORAN was out when I was learning, but it had spotty coverage, not many rentals had them, they cost a lot. Early ones required you enter Lat/Long and only gave you bearing, dist, ground speed to way point, which you entered manually. Later ones added an airport/vor data-base. Even with no MAP display it was awesome! Direct way-point to way-point NAV. Than slowly GPS came along and than map displays in the early 90's. So your complaint or lament about screen size may be valid, but I have a hard time seeing the problem (pun intended). You really want that course, distance, gnd speed and ETA. I know us guys are attracted to shiny things and electronics, but as a new pilot KEEP YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE COCKPIT. Mid air accidents DO HAPPEN. I am all for GPS in the hands of students or new private pilots, because it adds safety. HOWEVER WX DISPLAYS DO NOT MAKE YOUR INVINCIBLE TO WX RELATED ACCIDENTS. Will you make an in-flight decision based on your GPS weather display to continue or GO/NO-GO. Really. For an IFR pilot it is good for seeing convective activity. However if a VFR pilot is trying to use a GPS WX display to pick their way around a line of WX or scud run, well good luck, sounds like a bad thing.

Pretty soon a 19" flat panel LCD will not be good enough. :D
 
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Don't forget METARS and TAFS...

gmcjetpilot said:
Will you make an in-flight decision based on your GPS weather display to continue or GO/NO-GO. Really. For an IFR pilot it is good for seeing convective activity. However if a VFR pilot is trying to use a GPS WX display to pick their way around a line of WX or scud run, well good luck, sounds like a bad thing.
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I agree with much of what you wrote George, but I might amplify on this point. Something that gets missed a LOT in discussions of XM weather is what it provides OTHER than radar. In fact, I probably use the METAR function far more than radar - looking ahead to assure myself that I am still headed into VFR conditions (or, since I can file IFR, figure out if I need to do that). I agree that we don't want people "head's down" in the cockpits - yet there is some extremely valuable data available that DOES help with good decision making. I'm not saying you can't fly without it - I'm just making sure that people know what is out there. I spent decades flying around wondering what was ahead, and it is much more comfortable KNOWING!

And as I said couple of weeks ago - I personally use the XM Radar to make sure that I don't HAVE to pick my way through lines of storms - I use it to keep clear of them by going around!

paul

Paul
 
Frankly I still rock a Garmin 195 gray scale. Color is nice but so what. I must admit terrain avoidance is a nice thing I don't have; however I solve that by flying above MSA on X-C or knowing the obstacles in my local area.
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One thing is for sure. There are a whole lot of "expired" pilots and passengers who were on VFR, IFR, commercial, and military flights who ended up hitting terrain one way or another. None of them seem to have had the "big picture" color moving map GPS's with terrain warning.

Controlled flight into terrain accidents, is a part of aviation, that I've had quite an interest in for a lot of years. I have lots of files with the whys, wherefores, and onboard equipment. With terrain warning and the new synthetic vision, things can only get better.

P.S. --- out here in mountain country, the 496 with XM weather is excellent for VFR flight; as it allows for deviations far ahead of time, when its hard to see past a 12,000-14,000' range to the next one. I still have the black and white 195 too, but went on to the Garmin 296, and now the 496.
the clarity and speed of the 496 makes the others seem "old"........ like they are...:)

L.Adamson
 
We do not have XM WX or WAAS over here :( but let me just share the opinion of many GA drivers downunder!

GARMIN = GPS

About says it all really.

Buy a G296/396/495/496 according to your needs and budget
 
Andy,

I'll add my congrats to the list on your PPL...that's great! You're in one of the most fun times of your flying career, when ya feel like Columbus or Lewis and Clark every time you set out on a X-C! Enjoy every minute of it!

After one year of flying behind a 396, I'll echo what the others have said, and give you a specific example. My RV-6 is a VFR machine, and when bringing it home (after purchase last year) from Florida to Reno, the 396 was invaluable in doing just what the others have said...namely aiding in the decision making process to stay VFR and keep the flight running smoothly. On day 1, the overnight was to be Carlsbad, NM. Leaving Texas, we checked the METAR and TAF, saw CBs in the area, and zoomed out to see Carlsbad. Sure 'nuff, the weather was right on the field. We checked nearby airports and made a divert plan just in case. But we were able to watch the storm track (well) away, kept checking METARS for leftover nasty winds (all way before a conventional radar would have been in range at our altitude, and long before AWOS could be heard), and made it to Cbad in superb VFR weather. The next day we planned to stop near Phoenix, but weather there was awful (monsoons), so we stopped early for gas in Demming, NM, and then made it to Needles, CA for gas, missing all the bad stuff. Then headed home.

Between info such as METARS, TAFS, Radar, Terrain, TFRs and Contolled Airpace limits (not sure that one has been mentioned yet), the units just give you so many tools that it's well worth considering. I told my seller and buddy (a 777 guy) that day, "Hey, I want one of these in my 737", and he jokingly replied..."nah, ya gotta have a single engine airplane to have one of these!" :D

Hope I haven't dog-piled too much...it just really is a good tool. Of course, so are eyeballs, E-6Bs, plotters and sectionals, so don't forget how to use those as you explore new horizons (don't become a "glass/GPS cripple too fast!) Threw that in for George, though he's right...and these are just tools for your toolbox (I too remember back when I thought, "If I only had a DME!"). (And where's that 19" EFIS...never mind, I can't afford it!) ;)

Congrats again, and happy flying!

Cheers,
Bob
(Still feeling like Lewis after 30 years...or was that Clark) :)
 
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Thanks everyone. I am learning a lot about GPS and more. I actually think I am smart enough to go away and read up on a lot fo the different products now. :) I am also leaning toward holding onto my money for a little while. It is true, I am going to be bound to the local area for the near future anyway, so I can start to polish my pilotage/dead reckoning skills a little. Should give me something to work on while I am enjoying the air.

Hopefully, sometime in the not too distant future though, I will have worked out a way (and some confidence) to fly a little further away. Then, I can pull the trigger on some NAV gear I guess.

Thanks again. Andy
 
RV10inOz said:
We do not have XM WX or WAAS over here :( but let me just share the opinion of many GA drivers downunder!

GARMIN = GPS

About says it all really.

Buy a G296/396/495/496 according to your needs and budget
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Gotta agree with this. Have had 5 or so different makes/model combinations and I'm personally sold on Garmin anything. Hiking, boating, flying, driving. They're reliable and effective. Even for just beating around the local area in a rental plane, it's nice to have *a* GPS with you. Even if it's something like an old Pilot III, 96 or other. The 196 (flush mounted) in my panel currently has served me very reliably for years.

2 cents
 
GARMAN GPS III PILOT.... almost free

Andy, I have one of these that I don't use. It has the book, holder, remote antenna and quick reference guide. Also the 12v adapter........... It's yours for $30.00 to cover UPS shipping etc. If you want it, send me a PM.

THIS OFFER ONLY GOOD TO ANDYRV7..........:D
 
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