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alexw

Member
I am starting IFR training. I screwed up in my avionics design by not installing a TSO'd GPS. I have a GPS in the EFIS from Grand Rapids Technology. I do have VOR on a Sl-30 Nav/Comm.

The Garmin 430W looks like a great GPS/Nav/Comm/VOR etc. but it also cost more than I want to spend and looks like a lot of rewiring. I am not sure if it is worth the aggravation and expense.

Once I have an IFR ticket, I doubt I will do hard IFR flying. I expect to use it to break through clouds for take-offs and landings. Where the cloud deck will be well above minimums.

I am considering buying a new or reconditioned Garmin 155XL. Is this a good idea? Do you have any other ideas?

Thank you
 
IFR GPS

I have a 300XL and an SL30, as my 2 Navs and 2 Coms. I find them totally adequate for IFR. I don't have the built-in GPS in my GRT Sport, so the map display of the 300XL (such as it is) does help. Since you have a map display on your GRT, the 155 will do fine. The GRT can be the CDI, but don't forget, you need an annunciator panel. The wiring job will be a pain no matter which way you go.
Which GRT EFIS do you have?
Do you have an autopilot? I highly recommend one for IFR in RV's.
 
For actually flying the approach, the basic IFR GPS should be fine. In the TSO, the FAA went a long way toward spelling out how the GPS would operate, which is why they are so similar operationally during the approach phase.

However, the difficult part of IFR work in the RV is maintaining control and situational awareness in an airplane that requires more than the normal amount of mental focus. There are some things I discovered doing IFR work in my airplane:

1) The GPS receiver is not that great for taking cross radials off VOR's. The process of having work through menus and selecting identifiers is time consuming.

2) It is significantly more difficult maintaining situational awareness in the airplane, mostly because precision flying takes more mental energy than your typical Cessna.

3) Cockpit organization is critical in that little cockpit.

4) Sometimes, you get behind and just flat out need that 2-axis autopilot.

All of that to say, you are much better off with an IFR GPS receiver with a good color moving map, containing the approach waypoints, in order to help with nos. 1 and 2 above. At my own personal skill level, the autopilot isn't an optional piece of equipment for IFR work.

If you are interested in my (mis)adventures on learning to fly IFR in the RV, try this

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/ifr.htm

John Allen
 
300XL displayed on GRT Sport EFIS

DGlaeser said:
I have a 300XL and an SL30, as my 2 Navs and 2 Coms. I find them totally adequate for IFR. I don't have the built-in GPS in my GRT Sport, so the map display of the 300XL (such as it is) does help. Since you have a map display on your GRT, the 155 will do fine. The GRT can be the CDI, but don't forget, you need an annunciator panel. The wiring job will be a pain no matter which way you go.
Which GRT EFIS do you have?
Do you have an autopilot? I highly recommend one for IFR in RV's.
Click to expand...

Have you wired your 300XL to your GRT Sport? It will display the 300XL GPS route on your GRT Sport Map page!! Lots better then trying to use the 300XL display. If you had the GRT built in GPS on your sport you could display the 300XL as GPS2 on the GRT EFIS map page. I have duel Horizon I displays and a GRT Sport and have my 300XL wired to all three displays as GPS2 on each. Works like a charm.
 
Yeah, but ...

dav1111 said:
Have you wired your 300XL to your GRT Sport? It will display the 300XL GPS route on your GRT Sport Map page!! Lots better then trying to use the 300XL display. If you had the GRT built in GPS on your sport you could display the 300XL as GPS2 on the GRT EFIS map page. I have duel Horizon I displays and a GRT Sport and have my 300XL wired to all three displays as GPS2 on each. Works like a charm.
Click to expand...
I have the 300XL wired to the Sport, but I don't have the Map option in my Sport (yet anyway :) So I'm stuck with the 300XL display until I pony up a few more $$$.
 
Thank you for the replies.

I do have an auto pilot. I have the Sport from GRT. It is great. I have been practicing navigation with the VOR display on it. Using my Garmin SL-30 and taking advantage of the dual VOR reception on this radio. The GRT HSI display shows both VOR's and a nice display of where the VOR is located relative to me.

However, most airports near me require DME or GPS for the approaches. DME is about the same $$$ as a GPS. So why go with older technology?
 
Alex

It may be a hard pill to swallow, but save up the money and buy a Garmin GNS430W and if you can a 530W, but the 430W is a minimum for single pilot IFR ops.

You can sometimes get factory overhauled units which are basically new, and save a few bucks.

Dont mess around, get family and friends to give you Garmin Cash not socks and undies for birthdays xmas fathers day etc.

You will not regret it.

DB
 
No Map In Sport

DGlaeser said:
I have the 300XL wired to the Sport, but I don't have the Map option in my Sport (yet anyway :) So I'm stuck with the 300XL display until I pony up a few more $$$.
Click to expand...

You ought to check with Grand Rapids about an upgrade. It is my understanding that GRT is now providing all three screens (PFD, MAP, and Graphics Engine Monitor) in the Sport at no additional costs. I suspect you can send in your sport for an upgrade to the HiRes Screen and get all three screens displayed for little or no cost upgrade.
 
It doesn't hurt to ask...

dav1111 said:
You ought to check with Grand Rapids about an upgrade. It is my understanding that GRT is now providing all three screens (PFD, MAP, and Graphics Engine Monitor) in the Sport at no additional costs. I suspect you can send in your sport for an upgrade to the HiRes Screen and get all three screens displayed for little or no cost upgrade.
Click to expand...
That would be nice...:cool: I'll let you know what they say!

UPDATE: I spoke to Carlos, and apparently the latest S/W (which I recently loaded) has it in there, all I have to do is turn it on! I didn't know it was there. I will give it a go the next time I'm at the airport.
Thanks for the tip!!
 
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Is the "map" on 430 and 300 Good enough?

If you have the GNC300 or GNS430, do you still have a 496 type unit? I'd like to think the built in map displays are all that's needed, but are they marginal compared to a 496 or AvMap or AV80R?

I'd like to have IFR GPS, but, if I still would want an improved display, I may opt to only fly IFR with a normal VOR/ILS nav, and have an AvMap/696 for situational awareness, airport info, plates and weather. IFR will be a very small portion of my mission, so a large, color map display is probably how I'll spend my money.

Additionally, what are the real world advantages to filing and flying IFR with GPS? Are there getting to be more GPS approaches than VOR/ILS approaches? Are GPS routes more direct? Are they easier and more intuitive?
 
dbuds2 said:
Additionally, what are the real world advantages to filing and flying IFR with GPS? Are there getting to be more GPS approaches than VOR/ILS approaches?
Click to expand...

It's probably a good idea to take a critical look at the approaches for the airports you usually use as destinations - you might be surprised at how important GPS is becoming if you want to actually go to many fields! We rebuilt the panel on Louise's -6 just a little less than a year ago, and made a consious decision to go VOR/ILS only for the time being. It turns out now that there are quite a few fields that Louise looks at and realizes that she can't legally shoot an approach into. Fortunately, we were smart enough to leave panel room for at least a simple IFR GPS, which will probably go in when we find a good deal.

But the 396 currently hooked up to the Dynons and TruTrak will undoubtedly stay - for "situational awareness" purposes only, of course....;)

paul
 
dbuds2 said:
Additionally, what are the real world advantages to filing and flying IFR with GPS? Are there getting to be more GPS approaches than VOR/ILS approaches? Are GPS routes more direct? Are they easier and more intuitive?
Click to expand...

It all depends where you fly. Over the weekend, I completed an 1100 nm IFR roundtrip from TYS up to HPN and returned through FME in the DC ADIZ.

From eastern PA up through NY and down through MD and VA, it was all VOR airway flying with numerous doglegs and about as convoluted routing as you can imagine. My various requests to cut the corner on some of the doglegs were acknowledged and mostly ignored or I was told to ask the next controller. Whether you have VOR or GPS equipment in the northeast, ATC wants you on the airways and doesn't care how you do it.

When I got to the point of heading west past Richmond, ATC almost solicited requests to go direct from me and other pilots. I use a handheld GPS for these situations. In a few instances, I told them I had a handheld and they cleared me direct anyway!!!

I regularly fly IFR, some of it "hard" IFR, with an SL30 and a handheld GPS connected to a single-axis TruTrak. This setup gets me everywhere I want to go. Sure, I'd like to have a 430 or an IFR GPS, but I couldn't see the value in maintaining the databases just to be a able to shoot no more than a half dozen necessary GPS approaches in 150 hrs. of flying a year.

Like Paul said, GPS approaches are becoming more numerous, but for now, I'd rather put the money in avgas.

Bottom line:

Flying IFR in the northeast, no GPS needed.

Flying VFR in an around Washington DC in the DC ADIZ, a GPS is mandatory just to stay out of trouble, in my view.

Everywhere else, GPS is nice to have, but a handheld is good enough. Mine's not even an aviation unit.

Different strokes........

Mike
 
Aside from GPS approaches, keep in mind that a lot of ILS, VOR and LOC approaches require DME or ADF or both. GPS can subsitute for both of those items (in most cases).

Older IFR certified GPS units which are perfectly serviceable can be had for $2K plus the annunciator, CDI, and installation.

I have found that a lot of controllers assume everyone has GPS nowadays and having an IFR GPS allows you to accept those unexpected "direct-to" clearances.
 
Real IFR

If you plan on using the GPS for more than just the occasional pop through the clouds the 430 has a clear advantage especially if single pilot. At class C and higher airports often you will get an arrival in addition to the approach. Most of the older certified GPS just don't have it. At one point i had UPS GX-60 - ATC gave me an arrival and i had fly a hold just so that i could load the approach waypoints in the system.

Don't underestimate the 430 - it's long on its legs but it does IFR well!!!
 
DP's and STAR's etc.

True... the 430 has lots more in its database, departure procedures and arrivals and VOR, ILS, LOC approaches... The database updates cost more, but you get more, no doubt about that.
 
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