hydroguy2

hydroguy2

Well Known Member
I'm going to order my -7 tail soon(very soon). I'm in a small Montana town so not a huge amount of RV builders close by. I helped build a Rans S-6, but had an experienced ransbuilder doing most of the thinking. My question is:

1. will someone with 0 rivet experience(I'm green but not stupid) be able build a quality empannage.
or
2. would going to oregon and taking one of those build classes be beneficial to jump starting my project. ($2000expense)

I realize everyone is different and has different backgrounds. I also read the threads and it appears, some whiz through the plans and build a perfect(well perfect enough) tail first time. others struggle and have to reorder messed up parts. I'm building RV-7 quickbuild, on a budget. but if the expense of going to a builder class results in a better RV, then that is money well spent.
 
Brian,

You know several builders at your airport, have them teach you how to do it. That's what I did and I'm happy with it. I'm not saying the building class is a bad thing, I'm just saying that I'd not feeling like I'm missing anything by not doing it.

You might run into some issues reading the plans, but I highly doubt it. The preview plans make everything confusing, once you get piece and the real plans, things get much simpler. I'd be more worried about the riveting thing, but you can practice that on scrap until you get good enough to do it for real.
 
Thanks for the link,Bob.

I'm in Montana, so no luck on finding a close workshop. I was thinking along the lines of Synergy Air in Oregon and doing the 5day empannage class. It's not too far to drive, the wife has been wanting to go to the coast anyway and I could come home with airplane parts. But will most likely cost closer to $3000 with all expenses(vacation included).

Paul, 6 hangers & only 1 other builder at my airport is the Rans Dealer(he has plenty of work without teaching me). I also have found the preview plans to be a bit confusing, if the actual plans are better, I'll probably jump in on my own. Shop is just about ready. Also, I have an old RV-4 tail partially completed, the guy said here practice away and make mistakes on it before you ruin your new kit.
 
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First, find a local EAA chapter and join. They may have a few members which can help you get started. Then go to a local airport or two and start asking around (any excuse to go to an airport is a good one). A builder of ANY all metal plane can help. I got my first riveting lessons from a guy who built a Mustang II. I'm sure you will hook up with someone.

Then order a tool kit from the vendor of your choice and the practice toolbox kit from Vans. Together you will learn a lot of the basics. Before I started my empennage, I had squeezed about 100 rivets and bucked about 150. And drilled out a lot of them.
 
I was in a similar situation when I started -- no class available nearby within 6 months. I had virtually no experience working with aluminum and didn't know what half the tools in my starter tool package did. I bought the GBI Aircraft tools video and their practice kit, built the kit, then started the Emp. I feel I did a pretty good job on the Emp. It's not rocket science.

That said, I would encourage anyone to go to a class if they could. Also read Dan Checkoways 11-part series in Kitplanes.

And if I were doing it over again, I would probably go to one of those five-day deals where you build the Emp under expert supervision. Why? So I'd know I was doing it right. I didn't do that at the time because it seemed like too much money. But I have come to learn that it's not really very much money in relation to what the plane will eventually cost. It's one wing-leveler autopilot, or a couple of Bose headsets, or one fourth a constant speed prop. The advantages are that you get some great training, have outstanding workmanship on your Emp, and have the peace of mind knowing right off the bat that you know how to do it right. Not to mention the Emp is mostly done in five days verses three months.
 
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Not sure where you're at in Montana, but you mention that Eugene is drivable. If so, all you'd be out is the gas for the drive and a couple nights of hotel for Wally Anderson's one or two day course. You do NOT need to do your whole empennage there. Especially since you've already built a plane, Wally will give you all the help you need to learn the basics of aluminum construction in just the one or two days. That course only costs a couple hundred bucks.

While you're there, pick up your empennage kit at Van's. You'll save crating, shipping, and Van's will even through in a $50 credit for taking Wally's class. So some of your trip costs would be recouped.

If you choose to make a larger vacation out of it... well, yes, it is going to cost you more.

Do you need to take a build class? Definitely not if you have some really good people to teach you where you're at. At the same time, I see a lot of builders on this forum post questions and express anxieties that would have been answered and/or alleviated had they taken a basic building class.

This is just my two cents. If you do drive to Oregon, you're free to stop by my place if you're interested in taking a look at my project. I'm pretty much on the way (and about 3.5-4 hours from SynergyAir). Good luck.
 
alpinelakespilot2000 said:
....snip....nights of hotel for Wally Anderson's one or two day course. You do NOT need to do your whole empennage there. Especially since you've already built a plane, Wally will give you all the help you need to learn the basics of aluminum construction in just the one or two days. That course only costs a couple hundred bucks.

While you're there, pick up your empennage kit at Van's. You'll save crating, shipping, and Van's will even through in a $50 credit for taking Wally's class. So some of your trip costs would be recouped.

...snip...If you do drive to Oregon, you're free to stop by my place if you're interested in taking a look at my project. Good luck.
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Thanks for the wallly info.

I should have found this website earlier, I could have stopped by your place on my way back from Arlington.
 
I built 2 planes

The first was with pop rivets, the second the RV, Had 9 experience before I started and no training...Took a few goes to get the solid rivets right but it was less than what the "Toolbox" project would have given me.

I quite fancy one of those toolboxes now come to think of it...:)

Frank
 
I bought the Van's practice kit and used it for part of my training. A good friend with riveting/plane building experience gave me one good lesson in riveting.....plus.....he said, "be patient in all you do. These have brought me to a quality plane at the wiring stage. IT HAS BEEN GREAT FUN!!!!

Frank @ SGU and SLC
 
My wife and I attended the Synergy Air empennage building class back in April. Neither of us had any experience or knowledge, so we felt like this was a necessity. We made a vacation out of the trip as well, so it was expensive. The money was well spent. We left with the tail feathers completed, good training, and the confidence that we would be able to build this airplane. Wally Anderson and his staff are the best. Wally also helped us customize the took kit we bought from Cleaveland.
 
This is right on the money

Brian I had no sheet metal experience 10 years ago before I started my RV-6A. I went to Van's two day class at North Plains, OR from south of Los Angeles. The experience I gained made all the difference. The first rivet I drove would have ruined a skin. It is not just basic riveting that you learn, a wide variety of techniques and tools for dealing with different situations will prepare you for the whole sheetmetal airframe building experience. It reduces the risk so much, that you can methodically progress through the building process knowing that you will build a good airplane instead of hoping you will build a good airplane. This quote from alpinelakespilot2000 is really good input.

Bob Axsom

alpinelakespilot2000 said:
Not sure where you're at in Montana, but you mention that Eugene is drivable. If so, all you'd be out is the gas for the drive and a couple nights of hotel for Wally Anderson's one or two day course. You do NOT need to do your whole empennage there. Especially since you've already built a plane, Wally will give you all the help you need to learn the basics of aluminum construction in just the one or two days. That course only costs a couple hundred bucks.

While you're there, pick up your empennage kit at Van's. You'll save crating, shipping, and Van's will even through in a $50 credit for taking Wally's class. So some of your trip costs would be recouped.

If you choose to make a larger vacation out of it... well, yes, it is going to cost you more.

Do you need to take a build class? Definitely not if you have some really good people to teach you where you're at. At the same time, I see a lot of builders on this forum post questions and express anxieties that would have been answered and/or alleviated had they taken a basic building class.

This is just my two cents. If you do drive to Oregon, you're free to stop by my place if you're interested in taking a look at my project. I'm pretty much on the way (and about 3.5-4 hours from SynergyAir). Good luck.
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