Bigfig

I'm New Here
Hi all,
Just joined the forum and have been trying to decide which RV for about 1 year now. Looks like ti will be the 4 and recieved my preview plans last week. Graduated from ASU (Arizona) about 20 yrs ago with aviation degree and had the classes is structures, powerplants, systems. Currently work for a part 135 outfit in Toledo as a dispatcher.

1st off, Should I just go buy a fishing rod and fugetabout it?

I plan on joing the EAA Toledo, OH chapter and I know there are a couple RV out there.

Do most of you keep all the clecos and tools after the build or sell them off?

The preview plans and bprints were pretty straightforward. When you get the kit though does it explain step by step and do you check off as you go?

Any other words of advice. I plane on ordering emp in Jan so I do have a little time to get sane.
 
cheap advice

I hear Van's usually has a price increase the first of the year, so you might want to order your kit before Christmas. My tail kit order is going in the mail tomorrow...
 
Do it.

Although I have been on a 6 month no-building-hiatus, I still love it and am about to start building again.

The plans are very good in the beginning but as you go they get more abbreviated. I think the vertical stab section has more wordage than the whole fuselage section.

Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
After twelve years I'm....

"?getting ready to fly it!"

I still use my fishing rods and don't let airplane building get in the way when salmon are swimming around the island I live on... or other fun things I like to do; golf, flying, exercise, family, etc.

The basic tools don't take up much room and I'll need them to make modifications and repairs. I'm not planning to sell them. I am pretty sure I spent less than $1,200.

The 4 is not pre-punched but I wouldn't let that stop you from building a great model of the RV line.

The builder manual is a little sparse but I think the drawings are very very good. Sometimes it takes a few hours of contemplation to get a mental picture of what you're trying to fabricate or assemble. That's the fun of it... learning and thinking. This forum can help you fill in the blanks when a cold sweat breaks out.

Go for it!!!
 
Welcome to the Family!!!

Congratulations on making one of the most rewarding decisions you will make in life. I've built many things in my life, including other types of aircraft but nothing as fun and rewarding as an RV.

It sounds like you have a very good path laid out.

Joining the EAA, especially a local chapter is not just a good idea but arguably a must. If you haven't attended a metal builders workshop and it fits your schedule and budget, you could really save yourself some pain and unnecessary expenses. You have chose to build one of Van's most beautiful aircraft but sadly it does require jigging and aligning. I've worked on other kits that require this and it can be time consuming and frustrating, even for experienced builders. Don't get me wrong, it is extremely rewarding but the stakes are a bit higher. It is easier to make mistakes and they can cost you in both time and money. So if its within your means, brush up on your skills with a local workshop.

Network, network, network. I'm a newbie having only been with the EAA for 17 years but there are no other people in the world like the experimental aviation community. They will usually literally give you the shirt off their back, no questions asked. Where I am building there are only a handful of RV builders (3 including me) and we are all either test pilots or engineers (or both) and still collaborate on even the most trivial detail. I wouldn't want it any other way.

As for making indications on your Building Instructions. What I personally do is not only check off each step but write the date I completed the step next to the paragraph. Once I finish every task on that page I put a check mark at the bottom of the page to indicate there are no pending items on that page. You may find that you need to skip ahead and when you got back, it may be very confusing and frustrating to find the steps (or important details) you may have missed. Also, if you do take a lengthy break, believe it or not you will forget the last thing you had worked on. This is a back up to my hand written notebook I keep in the shop. I try to write my log as if I know nothing about what I am building (Lesson Learned: I had taken two weeks off and went out into the shop and read my notes and it took me at least 45 minutes to re-orientate because my notes sounded like stereo instructions...which is not good when you are building an airplane).

Van's Price Increase Possibly Delayed until Feb. 08 - When I ordered my next kit, the Van's rep. told me they are probably going to delay increasing their prices until February. Of course I would verify this with Van's but that is what I was told. This didn't really matter because I ordered in November but it was good info.

I can't speak for everyone in the forum but by making an empirical observation it seems as if most builders will be repeat offenders...meaning even if they sell some of their tools, they will probably keep the majority on the off chance they build again. Also, may need a majority of the tools you purchase for the odd Service Bulletin, Repair or Upgrade. Granted you probably will not need 325 clecos but these don't take up that much room and aren't that expensive.

The preview plans should have the step by step instructions and a small version of the plans. The larger Blue Prints come with each kit along with any revisions to the preview plans. Your plans will be much more detailed because you will have to do more jigging, aligning and hole locating.

Other words of advice. Stay plugged in. Builders all hit the wall and get discouraged at some point in the build. Depending on your skill sets it will be at different stages during the build. I think the number one reason why there are so many flying RV's is because of the strong community. We will pick you up when you have fallen as long as you do the same.

Good luck and happy riveting! :D
 
Bigfig, I am building a -4, and have previously built a -9a, and just read the replies you have recieved. I would particularly urge you to concentrate on Brian's reply. He said "The [-4] builder manual is a little sparse.... ". Unlike the rest of the VANS range it is worth understanding that in this area the -4 is different. (perhaps the 3 is the same.) I would say "sparse" is generous towards the details for a -4, but we have all passed those points one way or another, and I have no doubt the -4 community will get you through.

I am absolutely NOT trying to put you off, just set expectation. I am having a great time. I will be out there in a couple of hours, working on the engine baffles. I have had no help with my build since yesterday as you will see if you look up my recent posts. I get more than my fair share being a little on my own here in the UK and basically incompetant.

For a bit over a year I have been keeping a blog of my experience. You might find a poke around that interesting. There is less -4 related stuff on the web because most -4s were built before we built the web. There is a link below.

If you dont mind a long project, I agree, go for it! Good luck, Steve.
 
Look in the mirror and honestly ask yourself:

(a) I want to build because I want to build

(b) I want to build because I want to fly

(c) I want to build because I want to save money

If you answer (a) or (a) and (b) then build

If you answer (b) or (b) and (c) then buy one already built

If you answer (a), (b), and (c) then consider which (a) or (b) is most important. (a) build, (b) buy.

The main point is this: All things considered, it's less expensive to buy.

All things include:

Shop space, shop heat, A/C, power, lighting, tools, equipment, supplies, your time, the kits, band aids, extra parts, personal health issues, finishing, certification, test flying. This is not a all inclusive list, but you get the idea. Some of these items are huge..... Like you time. If you are an organized productive worker, yes you can build in the time specified. If you approach it as a hobby, admire your work too much and don't produce like you are a production worker the the project can span decades or longer.

Yes writing a check is cheating but it sure is fun to fly :D Also I think if you financed the airplane with a fixed rate HELOC your long term cost for the airplane would be less due to inflation. When Van's first started selling certified OEM Lycs they were less than 10K and a C/S Hartzel was 3K. Now the prices look astronomical however adjusted for inflation the prices have remained somewhat stable. Many like to think it's less painful to build and spread the costs over many years. The problem is this; the more years you spread it out, the bigger hit with inflation because many of the big ticket items come at the end. I talked to a guy who claimed his recent paint job was over 10K.:eek:
 
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Building is important

If you can afford it building an RV airplane is special "life experience." The building instructions will not automatically lead you to a completed airplane that is exactly like the designer intended or like every other RV with the same model number. Much is left up to the builder to figure out and all of the systems must be developed for you specific airplane. You must study the drawings and think ahead all the time just to end up with an error free airplane. When (not if) you make mistakes you have to develop standard repairs where possible to maintain structural integrity and continue moving forward. To get good results you have to use good tools some of which you will design and make yourself. I still have all my tools even though I first flew my airplane in March of 2004. Some builders have a need to build a new plane for various good reasons but I have strong attachment with the one I built in my garage and I constantly work to refine it in ways to make it go faster.

Good luck with your decision and your future experience.

Bob Axsom
 
Thanks for the replies. I am sure most of the builders go through the pre project jitters. I like the a,b,c test. I am totally confident in my abilities as I do have a analytical thought process and can visualize the big picture. My downfall and one reason I want to build is to work on my quality control. I will have to keep telling my self to do it right as I am staking my life on this. Big projects are my forte' as I just finished redoing a 1872 farmhouse about 95% solo. I look back and wonder how the heck I did it. (pre digital camera)

Going into this I am more interested in the build more then the fly. With fuel prices and the economy who knows how viable owning/flying a personal aircraft will be in 2-3 years. Of course the end result if viable will add to the excitement as the end draws near. I have recently sworn off flying commercial airlines any more (not worth the hassle) so this would open up a whole new way to go.

I would prefer the -8 with the matched hole but will just have to learn more patience with the 4.

My plan for the -4 is: k.i.s.s.
0-320 or IO if carbs are being fazed out. Mid time Lyc.
Leaning toward inverted system but 50/50 at this time
Manual flaps,trim and analog fuel qty indicators
Steam guages (may be able to get free from work)
Mode C (also should get radios free from work)
Nav/Strobe (just in case)
FP wood prop.
GPS
Paint (Kawasaki Green with black and white accents)

As you can see a budget build but a/c will be primarily short hops and high VFR.

I still find it amazing that all that flat stock aluminum is turned into such a amazing flying machine.