izzybear

izzybear

Well Known Member
Friend
... and I was wondering what the determining factors are for going with electric trim or manual trim. I am thinking I want the electric trim but if that means I can't have something else "really cool" then I want to know that up front so I can make an informed decision. I did a forum search and found a lot of discussion on weight / failure potential / spar hole room / ease of installation / slop, etc. I know everything is a trade off - I just want to make an informed decision and to know that the $325/electric trim is worth it. :confused:
 
Jim, just informing you that $325 in gas will cover half of the CONUS in your RV. The leaner (read "less cool") you go on your built the more country you see. Unless you are building a show plane... then it's a different story. :)
 
Yep... I get it.

Vlad said:
Jim, just informing you that $325 in gas will cover half of the CONUS in your RV. The leaner (read "less cool") you go on your built the more country you see. Unless you are building a show plane... then it's a different story. :)
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Completely understand what you are saying Vlad and the $325 is definitely a trade-off. I won't be building a show plane - so for you, you are saying the money is the determining factor in itself? Thanks for the input as well as all the inspirational trips you post about!!
 
I got the electric trim for one simple, basic reason: I like being able to trim the aircraft without taking a hand off the controls. I did my private in a DA-20 with electric trim on the stick, and got used to that. Now I'm usually flying an Archer with manual trim; it's not any kind of horrid inconvenience, mind you, but I do miss just being able to move my thumb to get the plane trimmed instead of reaching down between the seats.

And really, in the grand scheme of the entire build, $325 is pretty small potatoes. At the end of the day, only you can decide what plane you want and what it's worth.

:)
 
Agreed.

N546RV said:
I got the electric trim for one simple, basic reason: I like being able to trim the aircraft without taking a hand off the controls. I did my private in a DA-20 with electric trim on the stick, and got used to that. Now I'm usually flying an Archer with manual trim; it's not any kind of horrid inconvenience, mind you, but I do miss just being able to move my thumb to get the plane trimmed instead of reaching down between the seats.

And really, in the grand scheme of the entire build, $325 is pretty small potatoes. At the end of the day, only you can decide what plane you want and what it's worth.

:)
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Thanks Philip - Currently I fly a 172 and the trim wheel is on the column below the panel - so I don't think the manual would bother me - I was just thinking of going for the electric for ease of installation. I guess I just wanted confirmation that if I went with electric trim, I wouldn't be excluding myself from some other option that I don't yet know about. In general, I want to build a light-ish plane, 180hp, cs prop, medium glass panel (meaning not a full blown glass panel), because I hear the lighter the better.
 
Electric trim is great

I have electric trim on my RV-8 with trim buttons on the top of the stick. I love it because I like to keep the plane in trim all the time. Without moving my hand from the stick, I can constantly trim off any control pressures. That way, I am always controlling the stick with thumb and index finger and it is always in trim.

I fly a couple of other types of planes without electric trim and find myself frequently pushing on the top of the stick in an effort to change elevator trim.

Finally, I know of nothing that you would give up by installing electric trim. I think that it is well worth the cost.

Good luck with your project. The RV-8 is a wonderful plane; you are going to love it!

Dan Miller
RV-8 IO-360 M1 with WW 200RV prop. 1145 hours of fun.
 
Thanks!

cdmiller said:
I have electric trim on my RV-8 with trim buttons on the top of the stick. I love it because I like to keep the plane in trim all the time. Without moving my hand from the stick, I can constantly trim off any control pressures. That way, I am always controlling the stick with thumb and index finger and it is always in trim.

I fly a couple of other types of planes without electric trim and find myself frequently pushing on the top of the stick in an effort to change elevator trim.

Finally, I know of nothing that you would give up by installing electric trim. I think that it is well worth the cost.

Good luck with your project. The RV-8 is a wonderful plane; you are going to love it!

Dan Miller
RV-8 IO-360 M1 with WW 200RV prop. 1145 hours of fun.
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Thanks For the input Dan! It's all about what you get used to, huh? :D Glad it is not an either/or scenario with the trim - and I am really looking forward to starting this journey!!
 
Is there anyone out there that has the manual trim in their RV-8? If so, how and where are the trim wheels configured, lacation in the cockpit, etc? If there are threads out there on this, please post. Thanks! ~J~
 
cdmiller said:
I have electric trim on my RV-8 with trim buttons on the top of the stick. I love it because I like to keep the plane in trim all the time. Without moving my hand from the stick, I can constantly trim off any control pressures. That way, I am always controlling the stick with thumb and index finger and it is always in trim.
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What he said.
 
Vernier Type Control

JohnCFord said:
Is there anyone out there that has the manual trim in their RV-8? If so, how and where are the trim wheels configured, lacation in the cockpit, etc? If there are threads out there on this, please post. Thanks! ~J~
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John,

The elevator control is a vernier type control that is located on the lower left side of the panel (I believe). The aileron trim is a little slide lever that is located on the left cockpit sidewall.
 
Trying to actually answer your question(s):
what the determining factors are for going with electric trim or manual trim
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Personal choice really... I happen to prefer the Manual.

but if that means I can't have something else "really cool" then I want to know that up front
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I don't think it stops / enables much else?

Aileron Trim: We built it in, didn't like the springs noises / clunks, and never fitted the mechanics in the final build. Flown quite a few RV-8s, and only found one that required Aileron trim i.e. different "heavy" wings across the speed range. Aileron squeezing sorted out the others, and if you let the tanks get asymmetric enough to cause a rolling moment, there is a more fundamental answer :eek:

Just an alternative view ;)
 
Cool!

Jim,

I can hear the excitement in your post.......I am going with manual out of preference......Vans says the weight diff between electric and manual is negligable. Keep me posted on when you purchase the emp!!!
 
Congrats to you Bob!

Skykingbob said:
Jim,

I can hear the excitement in your post.......I am going with manual out of preference......Vans says the weight diff between electric and manual is negligable. Keep me posted on when you purchase the emp!!!
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I see by your signature that you purchased the tail kit today!! I am very happy for you to begin the journey now! I will be following you and hopefully joining you very soon. The game plan is to attend the Sportair clinic in Waco, TX 8/18-8/19 and then I hope to learn more about how to set up the work shop... the tail kit will be ordered either just before or after that class - so I will be a little more than a month behind you. As Belushi said, "LET'S DO IT!"

Yol Bolson!

Why don't you drop by if you are stopping over in Ft. Worth and do the consultation on setting up my shop - I need ideas on how to make it work in half of the 2 car garage :D I think Vlad would also have some Ideas with what I can do with all the "extra" space! ;)
 
izzybear said:
I see by your signature that you purchased the tail kit today!! I am very happy for you to begin the journey now! I will be following you and hopefully joining you very soon. The game plan is to attend the Sportair clinic in Waco, TX 8/18-8/19 and then I hope to learn more about how to set up the work shop... the tail kit will be ordered either just before or after that class - so I will be a little more than a month behind you. As Belushi said, "LET'S DO IT!"

Yol Bolson!

Why don't you drop by if you are stopping over in Ft. Worth and do the consultation on setting up my shop - I need ideas on how to make it work in half of the 2 car garage :D I think Vlad would also have some Ideas with what I can do with all the "extra" space! ;)
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Hey Jim,

Don't think I would have much expert advise for you....still figgering how I am going to set up myself. I responded to your PM a bit ago. I just figger you and Ni hon are at about the same place so I want to keep in touch to be able to bounce off each other! "LETS DO IT!!!
 
Jim, This is a great question. I bought an electric trim, but I didn't consider what I might have to give up. I'm glad you asked the question, because now I'm able to make a more informed decision -- even if it is retro!

Looking forward to buying tools at Oshkosh!
 
As others have noted, it's a personal choice.

My personal choice was to go with manual elevator trim. These were my reasons:

Firstly, I have a partnership in a Piper Archer and a Cessna 182. Both have manual AND electric trim. In both aircraft I find the feedback and sensitivity to be superior with the manual trims and use them exclusively. I have flown a number of RVs, some with manual and some with electric trim. Again I always find the manual trim to provide better feedback and sensitivity.

Secondly, there is very little that can go wrong with the RV manual trim...very reliable. The electric trim on the other hand can always suffer from "runaway full trim" and if that happens at an inopportune moment it could be disasterous.

In my case I felt that opting for electric trim in my RV would be a case of adding potentially dangerous complexity to the aircraft for absolutely no gain in functionality. But, just my opinion.
 
Captain Avgas said:
As others have noted, it's a personal choice.

My personal choice was to go with manual elevator trim. These were my reasons:

Firstly, I have a partnership in a Piper Archer and a Cessna 182. Both have manual AND electric trim. In both aircraft I find the feedback and sensitivity to be superior with the manual trims and use them exclusively. I have flown a number of RVs, some with manual and some with electric trim. Again I always find the manual trim to provide better feedback and sensitivity.
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Bob.....well put! That is my reasoning as well. I have flown King Air 100's and jets that have no manual trims. They have a finer(slower) turning motor that is sufficient.....but to me, there is nothing like the feedback feel of the fine tuning of a manual trim:D:D:D

Just a preference thing!:cool:
 
Hopefully starting soon too

Jim,
I don't have anything intelligent to add about your trim question but wanted to say that im also in about the same place with the garage/workshop planning. Planning to at least start an RV-10 in my 2 car Garage in Carrollton this fall.

I'm also signed up for Waco in August so hopefully we can meet and compare thoughts there.
 
Skykingbob said:
That is my reasoning as well. I have flown King Air 100's and jets that have no manual trims. They have a finer(slower) turning motor that is sufficient.....but to me, there is nothing like the feedback feel of the fine tuning of a manual trim:D:D:D

Just a preference thing!:cool:
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Many RV builders opt for electric trim so that they can put a trim control on the joystick. That, of course, adds even more complexity and so further increases the potential for failure....more connections, more fine wires to chafe, delicate little switches that are easily damaged. There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple in what is effectively a small and basically simple aircraft. :)
 
Thanks Guys!

All the good feedback is very appreciated! That is exactly the type of information I was looking for. I understand it is a personal preference, but there is usually a good bit of logic that ferments into a preference :D

Thanks Again!
Jim

Hey KCBerner, glad you are so close! Are you a member of EAA 168 in Carrollton? I just attended my first meeting this month - great group of guys - check 'em out.
Jim
 
Welcome!

Well good deal... Welcome to the good ship VAF!

You will find there are a great group of people here too! :D:D

And TONS of good information!
 
Izzybear, I've just finisshed my tail feathers and just inventoried the wing kit, so moving on to the next phase. I did the same as you, went to the SportAir workshop before starting my build, and it did help. More than anything, though, you'll learn as you go, and the kit does a good job of bringing you along. I don't think I could have done it, though, without help from VAF and some friends, as there is a LOT to learn.

I bought the electric trim for the same reasons most others here have said. From a weight standpoint I'd say it's got to be lighter than manual, as there isn't much to the electric trim other than a servo motor and some wiring. Also, after spending this much money on the plane and tools, $325 seemed pretty minor. I've got a feeling there will be more $$$ spent on things to customize the plane down the road, and I doubt they will be this inexpensive!

I wish you the best with your build, and have a good time at your workshop.
 
Thanks!

Thanks Jim - I wish you luck on your build too. Thanks for the input on the trim - you all are right, it's a personal preference. Glad that are not limiting factors with the use of either method.
 
I bought a partially completed empennage that came with an electric trim. Had it not, I would just have gone manual for the reasons Bob said.

Now, I've heard that the electric trim can be a bit touchy at the speeds we fly. I have a two speed Safety Trim system that I love which moves the trim at a very slow rate in cruise but speeds it up when the flaps go down. However, this adds a considerable cost to your trim system.

Installing the electric trim was pretty easy though.
 
Autopilot Trim?

Will you have an autopilot?

I selected manual trim - same reasons as the others.

I have recently learned however, that had I selected electric trim, it could have been wired to the autopilot for programmed climb, descents, level off, etc. the AP will still control and hold altitude with manual trim, but from my understanding it will be limited to gradual vertical speeds in the nature of +\- 100fpm unless I manually trim it. The AP does annunciate when manual trim is needed. If not manually trimmed, then the autopilot servo would simply just fight off the out of trim elevator, which could send you for a ride upon AP disconnect.

That being said, I'm still ok manually trimming. But, just saying, if you have expectations of full blown hands off AP coupled approach, then you may appreciate electric trim.
 
Yep, I was thinking that same thing...

Dbro172 said:
Will you have an autopilot?

I selected manual trim - same reasons as the others.

I have recently learned however, that had I selected electric trim, it could have been wired to the autopilot for programmed climb, descents, level off, etc. the AP will still control and hold altitude with manual trim, but from my understanding it will be limited to gradual vertical speeds in the nature of +\- 100fpm unless I manually trim it. The AP does annunciate when manual trim is needed. If not manually trimmed, then the autopilot servo would simply just fight off the out of trim elevator, which could send you for a ride upon AP disconnect.

That being said, I'm still ok manually trimming. But, just saying, if you have expectations of full blown hands off AP coupled approach, then you may appreciate electric trim.
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I was reading about the G3X and the auto-trim functionality...yes, that interests me. I think based on that, I am thinking electric trim is the way to go for me. Thanks, as always for all the input!!! ;)
 
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