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RV8A-Aviator

Member
G3X Expert,

I have a GNS480 in my RV10. I recently installed a G3X which is intergrated with the GTX330 & GNS480. I would like to upgrade my GTX330 to ES. I was told today that due to the fact that GNS480 doesn't currently support the correct data feed to the GTX330, upgrading the GTX330 to ES is not going to give me the ability to be 2020 compliant, only if a software update is made to the GNS480 could I gain 2020 compliance, and there are no plans to update the GNS480 software.

Are there plans to upgrade the G3X to support the data requirements to allow the G3X to drive the data to the GTX330ES?

Or am I stuck with having to purchase a new GPS Navigator to drive the GTX330, if a update of the GNS480 doesn't happen.

Thanks.
 
I imagine that the cost to update the GNS480 is very high for Garmin seeing as how ADS-B was just being dreamed up when the 480's current software was certified. One can assume that new software would have to be ran thru the expensive certification gauntlet all over again if they wanted to issue an update. There would be little to no return to Garmin for the money spent to make that happen. Not saying they won't do it, I would just not be surprised if they did not when I look at it from a business point of view. (Steve cleared that up below. Garmin is going to do it!)

The G3X can already provide the ES transponder with data but it does so along with setting the flags that let the FAA know that it is has lower integrity, position accuracy, containment and velocity accuracy than you would get with a GPS that meets the 2020 standard. Apparently for now and possibly until 2020 it is OK to do this as long as the data and flags provided in the squitter data package are accurate and reflect the integrity/accuracy etc. of the position source being used.

What the FAA does not like is false flags, false integrity/accuracy etc. information, fake, interpolated or hard-coded data being included in the squitter data package. I have heard that there are solutions out there on the market today that are or were guilty of this in one form or another. Bottom line is that if an ES transponder or a UAT is getting it's position data from a device outputting NMEA or Aviation format, it does not meet the 2020 requirements and may be breaking the rules if it is also providing false integrity/accuracy etc. values and flags in the squitter data.

For 2020, the rules say the position source must meet the requirements. Who knows how fast or how hard the FAA will take a stand on this. It is possible that they will stop providing TIS-B traffic even before 2020 if the position source does not meet the 2020 standards.

It is almost a given that before 2020, there will be position sources available for use with ADS-B that will meet the requirements and that will be much less expensive that today's options. Today however Garmin has a major discount on their 400W for G3X owners....

I am sure Steve will be along shortly to directly answer your questions....
 
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RV8A-Aviator said:
G3X Expert,

I have a GNS480 in my RV10. I recently installed a G3X which is intergrated with the GTX330 & GNS480. I would like to upgrade my GTX330 to ES. I was told today that due to the fact that GNS480 doesn't currently support the correct data feed to the GTX330, upgrading the GTX330 to ES is not going to give me the ability to be 2020 compliant, only if a software update is made to the GNS480 could I gain 2020 compliance, and there are no plans to update the GNS480 software.

Are there plans to upgrade the G3X to support the data requirements to allow the G3X to drive the data to the GTX330ES?

Or am I stuck with having to purchase a new GPS Navigator to drive the GTX330, if a update of the GNS480 doesn't happen.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hello RV8A,

The GNS 480 software was updated in April 2015 to provide the ADS-B Out+ capability required to use it as a FAR 91.227 compliant position source. See this posting for details on software versions.

Fortunately we are many years away from 2020 and you have a couple of options already to supply position data to your GTX330ES and get those stingy ground stations to share their traffic knowledge.

As Brian mentions, the G3X system to which the GTX330ES is attached is already sharing data with it which is used to fill in the data fields in the 1090 Mhz extended squitter. As shown in the G3X installation manual, GSU73 RS-232 port 3 is connected to GTX330ES RS-232 port 1.

The GTX330ES will simultaneously receive position data from a certified WAAS navigator on RS-232 port 2 and even prioritize that data over the non-certified G3X position data. If you reach up and turn off the GNS 480, the ES keeps going, but it is filled with lower integrity data coming from the non-certified GPS.

We don't know for sure if the ground stations will always respond positively to these non-compliant squitters, but they appear to do so now and you will not be the first G3X aircraft to prove that.

Please let us know if you have any questions with this installation.

Thanks,
Steve
 
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G3X Expert,

Well that's great news that the GNS480 will be updated. I do want to upgrade the GTX330 to ES now, is the upgrade available yet with the final software? Thanks again...Mark :)
 
GTX330ES - G3X Configuration Question

G3X Expert,

Can you provide a link to the install manual for a GTX330ES? I just received my GTX330 back from Garmin with the upgrade to ES and latest software. I need to reconfigure the GTX330ES back to my G3X. I was going through the GTX330 setup page there are several new pages that pertain to ADS-B & 1090 & 987 not sure if I am to turn these on or not? I have the latest G3X install guide with the configuration guidance and have followed that guidance.

Thanks.....Mark
 
RV8A-Aviator said:
G3X Expert,

Can you provide a link to the install manual for a GTX330ES? I just received my GTX330 back from Garmin with the upgrade to ES and latest software. I need to reconfigure the GTX330ES back to my G3X. I was going through the GTX330 setup page there are several new pages that pertain to ADS-B & 1090 & 987 not sure if I am to turn these on or not? I have the latest G3X install guide with the configuration guidance and have followed that guidance.

Thanks.....Mark
Click to expand...

Hello Mark,

For certified products, Garmin relies heavily on customers to work with their dealer to receive the installation information and support they need. This policy remains the same as it has been.

Garmin will, however, provide direct support to any experimental aircraft customer who for whatever reason does not have a dealer to work with. That direct support will provide any and all necessary information to assist you in successfully installing and configuring any Garmin product in your experimental aircraft.

The new 1090 IN and UAT IN fields on the GTX 330ES have been a wide source of confusion. Fortunately, it is very straight forward. The data in these squitter fields just tells the listening ground station what type of receivers you are using and allows it to tailor the uplink data for your operating area.

If your aircraft has a GDL 39, it is capable of receiving both 1090 Mhz ES and 978 Mhz UAT, so you would normally set both of these fields to YES.

We are happy to help you with any and all questions. Call or send an email and we will provide any installation support you require.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Steve thanks, there is also the ADS-B field, that too should be yes right ?

One other thing, the way I have the GNS480 configured, and it was the orginal equipment communicating with the GTX330 prior to the install of the G3X. I had to turn the GNS480 off for communicating with the GTX330ES on the same port as the G3X, as the GMS480 would initialize and keep rebooting. As soon as I configured the GNS480 for no TIS on serial port 6, it works fine and the G3X communcates with the GTX330ES. I hope is that once the GNS480 has a future software update will I be able to have both the G3X and GNS480 configured to the GTX330ES? My wish would be the GNS480 tranmits the data to the GTX330ES as it's a TSO'd FAA approved unit, but the GTX330ES send the traffic data to both the G3X and GNS480 for display. Is this possiable, the way I interperate the interconnections with the 6XX & 7XX this is an option.

Thanks....Mark
 
RV8A-Aviator said:
Steve thanks, there is also the ADS-B field, that too should be yes right ?

One other thing, the way I have the GNS480 configured, and it was the original equipment communicating with the GTX330 prior to the install of the G3X.

I had to turn the GNS480 off for communicating with the GTX330ES on the same port as the G3X, as the GMS480 would initialize and keep rebooting. As soon as I configured the GNS480 for no TIS on serial port 6, it works fine and the G3X communcates with the GTX330ES.

I hope is that once the GNS480 has a future software update will I be able to have both the G3X and GNS480 configured to the GTX330ES? My wish would be the GNS480 tranmits the data to the GTX330ES as it's a TSO'd FAA approved unit, but the GTX330ES send the traffic data to both the G3X and GNS480 for display. Is this possiable, the way I interperate the interconnections with the 6XX & 7XX this is an option.

Thanks....Mark
Click to expand...

Mark,

Yes, the ADS-B TX field should be set to ENABLE (always on) or PILOT SET (pilot turns on/off the ADS-B Out).

We agree that you would not be able to share a serial port on the GTX 330ES between the GSU 73 and the GNS 480. This connection is bidirectional between the GSU 73 and the GTX 330ES as shown in the G3X installation manual.

Call or send us an email if you have an additional wiring questions.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Steve,

How does PILOT SET work? How do you actually turn it on/off? Some switch wired into something?
 
Radomir said:
Steve,

How does PILOT SET work? How do you actually turn it on/off? Some switch wired into something?
Click to expand...

Radomir,

It is even easier than wiring a switch.

Once you set the ADS-B TX field to PILOT SET on a GTX 330ES, the ADS-B out transmissions can be controlled by the pilot through the front panel - even during flight.

To do this, push the FUNC button until the ADS-B TX window shows up on the right side of the GTX. Press the START/STOP button to toggle this setting between ON and OFF. Since ADS-B TX defaults to ON at each power cycle, you don't have to worry about it being accidentally left off.

The latest Rev. G version of the GTX 330ES Pilot Guide explains this.

For those of you who have a remote mount GTX 23ES transponder connected to a G3X, you too can configure it to allow the pilot to turn ADS-B Out on/off through the PFD in flight.

Steve
 
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Steve, the current interconnect drawings for the G3X show use of the same ports for both connection to the GNS480 to the GTX330ES & G3X to the GTX330ES, this created the configration issue in my install. I have corrected the issue by turning off the GNS480's communication to the GTX330ES, but will need to corect this interconnect issue in the future. I would like to see an upodate of interconnection drawings with the correct connections. Thanks for the outstanding customer service......Mark:)
 
RV8A-Aviator said:
Steve, the current interconnect drawings for the G3X show use of the same ports for both connection to the GNS480 to the GTX330ES & G3X to the GTX330ES, this created the configration issue in my install. I have corrected the issue by turning off the GNS480's communication to the GTX330ES, but will need to corect this interconnect issue in the future. I would like to see an upodate of interconnection drawings with the correct connections. Thanks for the outstanding customer service......Mark:)
Click to expand...

Hello Mark,

You are going to have to help me out here.

I am looking at the G3X Transponder Control drawing on page D-3 (Rev. G manual) and the GNS 480 drawing on page D-9 and there doesn't seem to be any wiring shown between the GNS 480 and the GTX 330ES or any conflicts.

The only connections between the GNS 480 and the GSU 73 are A429. The RS-232 interface out of the GNS 480 is to the GDU 37X.

Eventually there will likely be a RS-232 ADS-B Out interface from the GNS 480 to port 2 on the GTX 330ES just like there is with the other GNS and GTN units to provide the ADS-B Out data to the transponder.

Please let me know if I missed something or if you still have questions. You can also email us.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Steve,

The issue is that the original connections from the GNS480 and GTX330 used the same pinout 22,51,23, as called out for the interconnect from the G3X to the GTX330. All is working correctly now as I have turned off communication of the GNS480 to the GTX330, but in the future I will have to create a new interconnect between the GNS480 and GTX330ES once the 480 has been approved to provide data to the GTX330ES.

All is good....Thanks.....Mark
 
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