T

Tango Mike

Well Known Member
I'm a dinosaur from the paper-chart days trying to get comfortable in the cockpit without having a sectional or IFR Low/High chart open and an approach plate on the yoke or a clipboard. It's proving to be a frustrating transition, but with the anticipation of substantial rewards available at the end game.

My RV-7 is G3X equipped, and my primary use for the iPad/Garmin Pilot combo is for flight planning, filing, etc. In the cockpit, I'm dealing with glare issues and where to put the iPad. So far, it's proved to be the most useful in the terminal phase, resting on my right knee with an approach plate geo-referenced through the GDL-39. Zooming in to read approach details more easily is a great feature and more user friendly than the range rocker and joystick method on the G3X MFD.

I've been getting ship's power to the iPad with a USB adaptor plugged into a standard power outlet. Yesterday, during an hour-long round-robin flight, my passenger was using the iPad and inadvertently connected it to one of two power adaptors that isn't working. I didn't notice the battery level when we discovered that it wasn't charging, but after switching to the working outlet, the iPad became very hot.

My plan has always been to connect a fully charged iPad to ship's power at the beginning of a flight, so I'm wondering if the lower battery level in this case put the iPad into a fast charge mode that caused the heat?

My passenger suggested that the protective iPad case might be affecting the cooling, but the fully charged iPad on my desk using the standard power adaptor is at room temperature. Anyone having problems with heat buildup?

Another issue relates to Garmin Pilot, which in spite of a large user's manual seems to hide specific actions from me. In this case, it's a chart binder I created that isn't labeled correctly. I've looked for instructions on how to either rename the binder or delete if and start over, but the only option I've found is a function called "Edit/Arrange" which is used to move the binders around in the list. If anyone knows how to do this, I'd appreciate knowing.

Thanks in advance for your comments/suggestions.

Tosh
 
Tango Mike said:
I'm a dinosaur from the paper-chart days trying to get comfortable in the cockpit without having a sectional or IFR Low/High chart open and an approach plate on the yoke or a clipboard. It's proving to be a frustrating transition, but with the anticipation of substantial rewards available at the end game.

My RV-7 is G3X equipped, and my primary use for the iPad/Garmin Pilot combo is for flight planning, filing, etc. In the cockpit, I'm dealing with glare issues and where to put the iPad. So far, it's proved to be the most useful in the terminal phase, resting on my right knee with an approach plate geo-referenced through the GDL-39. Zooming in to read approach details more easily is a great feature and more user friendly than the range rocker and joystick method on the G3X MFD.

I've been getting ship's power to the iPad with a USB adaptor plugged into a standard power outlet. Yesterday, during an hour-long round-robin flight, my passenger was using the iPad and inadvertently connected it to one of two power adaptors that isn't working. I didn't notice the battery level when we discovered that it wasn't charging, but after switching to the working outlet, the iPad became very hot.

My plan has always been to connect a fully charged iPad to ship's power at the beginning of a flight, so I'm wondering if the lower battery level in this case put the iPad into a fast charge mode that caused the heat?

My passenger suggested that the protective iPad case might be affecting the cooling, but the fully charged iPad on my desk using the standard power adaptor is at room temperature. Anyone having problems with heat buildup?

Another issue relates to Garmin Pilot, which in spite of a large user's manual seems to hide specific actions from me. In this case, it's a chart binder I created that isn't labeled correctly. I've looked for instructions on how to either rename the binder or delete if and start over, but the only option I've found is a function called "Edit/Arrange" which is used to move the binders around in the list. If anyone knows how to do this, I'd appreciate knowing.

Thanks in advance for your comments/suggestions.

Tosh
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Yes, the ipad can get quite hot. If you allow it to get too hot, it will shut down. We cut large "cooling" holes in the back of the case that ours is in. Also, we know to plan very carefully to be sure it is cool (air vent) before an approach phase when in actual imc. Wish it wasn't so, but it just isn't bullet proof.
 
Are you using the built in GPS or an external GPS? If using the internal GPS and charging at the same time (especially from a low battery) it will utilize the full charge since it is not only needing to charge it but keep it on as well. Depending on the Amps drawing from your ship power it may also get too hot as well. If you are using the internal GPS try charging it at home when the battery is less than 20%. I bet it still gets hot . . . also as said before, be careful it doesn't get too hot because it will shut down. I don't use iPad in flight very often due to the glare but when I do bring it up I have it mounted by the passenger vent so it almost sits in front of the vent to allow cooling when I do have to use it.
 
I only have about 30 hours flying with an IPad mini GDL-39 combo. If it stays plugged into ships power with the display backlighting on continuously it will get hot, this is starting out with a full charge before take off. I have never had it shut off due to overheating...yet. I tried several mounting positions in my Rans, but due to lack of a glare shield on the instrument panel I found the best viewing angle was sitting on my thigh. I bought a kneeboard mount from a company called AppStrap. I bought it from Gulf Coast avionics and while it is a little pricy, it is very well made. It comes with a vinyl covered foam wedge that can be secured under the front edge with Velcro to adjust the viewing angle.
 
To delete a binder, hold your finger on the folder for about 4 seconds and an "x" will appear in the corner of the folder. Touch the x to delete. You can't delete a binder in a current open flight plan
 
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BCP Boys said:
Are you using the built in GPS or an external GPS? If using the internal GPS and charging at the same time (especially from a low battery) it will utilize the full charge since it is not only needing to charge it but keep it on as well. Depending on the Amps drawing from your ship power it may also get too hot as well. If you are using the internal GPS try charging it at home when the battery is less than 20%. I bet it still gets hot . . . also as said before, be careful it doesn't get too hot because it will shut down. I don't use iPad in flight very often due to the glare but when I do bring it up I have it mounted by the passenger vent so it almost sits in front of the vent to allow cooling when I do have to use it.
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Not sure I understand how to select an internal versus external GPS. I elected not to pay the extra for the cellular model, which as I understand it improves the accuracy of the iPad's GPS, because it's Bluetooth-paired with the GDL-39 and derives its position from it.

On a 40-minute flight today, we began with a 100% charged, room temperature iPad, connected it to ship's power, and used it all the way to landing. It might have been in direct sunlight for a short period because I don't use the Kroger shade during the takeoff and landing phase, but for the most part it was shaded from the sun. Even so, the screen and back of the iPad got very hot to the touch.

On the way back to home base, we used it the same way except didn't connect it to ship's power, and it felt as if the heat level was about the same. This seems to indicate that whether or not it's charging might not be a factor.

I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I've got the screen set on full bright. I turned off auto brightness because I was told that the iPad is designed so that in bright conditions it reduces screen brightness, which seems counter-intuitive, and may not be correct to begin with.

I have a cushioned leather case that I really like for protecting the screen and back of the iPad. I'm not too keen about yanking it in and out of the snaps every time I want to use it inflight, but I think that's the next thing to try, along with the suggestion to direct fresh airflow onto the back.

That won't work for having it close at hand on my right leg for verifying approach chart details, however.

Tosh
 
Mike H said:
I only have about 30 hours flying with an IPad mini GDL-39 combo. If it stays plugged into ships power with the display backlighting on continuously it will get hot, this is starting out with a full charge before take off. I have never had it shut off due to overheating...yet. I tried several mounting positions in my Rans, but due to lack of a glare shield on the instrument panel I found the best viewing angle was sitting on my thigh. I bought a kneeboard mount from a company called AppStrap. I bought it from Gulf Coast avionics and while it is a little pricy, it is very well made. It comes with a vinyl covered foam wedge that can be secured under the front edge with Velcro to adjust the viewing angle.
Click to expand...

I heard about that kneeboard mount from another Van's Forum member and looked at it a few months ago. On the few occasions in which I've used it on approaches, I simply rested it on my thigh, but that might not be a workable solution long term.
 
I think there is an issue with your iPad or your charger. I have never had any heat issues like you described. I have an ipad2. Mine is in a black notebook case. I have been using it for several years in the cockpit. I rarely have to charge it while in the aircraft unless it's an unusually long trip 7 + hours
 
Bill.Peyton said:
If you don't purchase th cellular option for the iPad, you don't have a GPS built in to the iPad.
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I kinda thought that was the case, but wasn't sure.

When sitting at my desk with the iPad and Garmin Pilot up and running for flight planning, the blue position dot is showing on the sectional in an Austin neighborhood. When I enter my departure airport, the first leg shows the mag heading and distance from my house to the airport. Maybe that's because the iPad is within range of my local network?
 
I am not sure what the iPad does for location on non cell based units. Until you connect to the gdl39, you won't have a position. One thing to consider, if you had the GPS built in, the iPad could be used as a backup if you lost power or other sources. There are several producers of remote BT GPSs for the iPad. If you are using a gdl39 with the battery, you effectively have that option.
 
Bill.Peyton said:
I think there is an issue with your iPad or your charger. I have never had any heat issues like you described. I have an ipad2. Mine is in a black notebook case. I have been using it for several years in the cockpit. I rarely have to charge it while in the aircraft unless it's an unusually long trip 7 + hours
Click to expand...

Except for the fact that the iPad gets hot even when not charging from ship's power, I've been wondering about that as well.

Mine is a retina display iPad, which might run hotter than earlier models? The Apple 12W USB Power Adaptor that came with it is designed for retina display iPads, but the car chargers listed as iPad charging devices make no mention of being for any specific type of display. I'm using a Wireless brand car charger I bought at the Apple store. The current models are Incase, don't know if that would make any difference.
 
Bill.Peyton said:
I am not sure what the iPad does for location on non cell based units. Until you connect to the gdl39, you won't have a position. One thing to consider, if you had the GPS built in, the iPad could be used as a backup if you lost power or other sources. There are several producers of remote BT GPSs for the iPad. If you are using a gdl39 with the battery, you effectively have that option.
Click to expand...

What I'm saying is that I do have a position with the blue ball pinging at me where my house is on a Garmin Pilot sectional chart as I sit at my desk writing this. It has to be getting the GPS signal from somewhere other than the GDL-39, which is in my hangar, 184 degrees for 23nm from here. That's the source of my confusion about what non-cell models do or don't have in the way of GPSs. My guess is it has something to do with being connected to a WiFi hotspot. Maybe?
 
Tango Mike said:
What I'm saying is that I do have a position with the blue ball pinging at me where my house is on a Garmin Pilot sectional chart as I sit at my desk writing this. It has to be getting the GPS signal from somewhere other than the GDL-39, which is in my hangar, 184 degrees for 23nm from here.
Click to expand...

I think it remembers the last known position, and will display that until it is updated with a new position.
 
Mike S said:
I think it remembers the last known position, and will display that until it is updated with a new position.
Click to expand...

But it's last-known position was at shutdown at my hangar. When I powered it up at the house, the position shown immediately was in west Austin, not at the airport. It definitely updated.
 
Irk mows your position at home because you are connected to the Internet via wifi. If you connect to wifi anywhere else and open the app it will show your location.
 
Mike H said:
Irk mows your position at home because you are connected to the Internet via wifi. If you connect to wifi anywhere else and open the app it will show your location.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the confirmation, Mike. As mentioned in a previous post, I figured that WiFi had to be the difference.
 
Follow-up to iPad heat issues

Based on replies to my original post and an email conversation with another forum member, here's a summary of what I think I've learned:

1. The version of the iPad apparently makes a lot of difference. Mine is a 4th generation with the retina display and lightning connector, and it tends to become very warm both in battery operation and when connected to a charger, whether charging or when fully charged. The iPad Air reportedly does not generate noticeable heat that can be felt in the screen and frame when operating on battery power or connected to a charger. I don't know about earlier versions except as reported that an iPad2 does not heat up for one of the forum members.

2. Any iPad version exposed to direct sunlight can overheat even if it's turned off.

3.The kind of power adaptor apparently makes no difference in the tendency to produce heat.

4. Cases covering the back of the iPad effectively block whatever cooling air is available.

5. Directing a cockpit fresh-air vent onto the back of heat-prone model iPad won't make it feel noticeably cooler to the touch, but it might make a difference in whether it shuts down due to an overtemp.

Based on email comments to me from another forum member with 6 months experience with the iPad Air, that's the answer: smaller overall size but with the same size screen, thinner, lighter, and with an improved processor (which might be the heat-generating culprit in earlier versions?).

Thanks to all for joining this thread.

Tosh
 
Tosh,
My wife and I both fly. She has the iPad Air and I the iPad2. We have never seen these overheating issues with either. If you choose to replace your current unit, purchase one with a GPS, you will be happy that you did. Once you get to where you are going and get in the car you can use the pad for navigation, and you won't have to rely on the GDL 39 for a position source.
 
Bill.Peyton said:
Tosh,
My wife and I both fly. She has the iPad Air and I the iPad2. We have never seen these overheating issues with either. If you choose to replace your current unit, purchase one with a GPS, you will be happy that you did. Once you get to where you are going and get in the car you can use the pad for navigation, and you won't have to rely on the GDL 39 for a position source.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Bill.

The issue for me when I wrote the original post wasn't that the iPad has over-temped in flight, just that it's warm enough to the touch to be of concern and I wanted to know if it was a common problem. Some replies indicate that I'm not the only one dealing with it, and although I'm just guessing, it might be a function of the screen (retina versus previous) and the processor (A7 versus A6X).

Mr. Budget is my virtual co-pilot, and I elected not to pay the extra for the cellular model and deal with any extra monthly charges when I can use a fixed WiFi hotspot or a portable one with my phone when needed on the ground, and the GDL-39 handles the job in the air. I can also add a Bad Elf GPS dongle if necessary.

But your suggestion is falling on fertile ground. The Air looks like a big improvement over the Gen 4s, and if I upgrade, it will be to a cellular model simply for convenience.

Tosh
 
Upgrading

If you are thinking o upgrading to an iPad Air, there have been rumors that the next one (released in October usually) will have a much more sunlight readable screen. Rumor was on several of the Apple news sites last week.
 
Another follow-up to iPad heat issue

As it turns out, the iPad heat issue I reported in my original post has nothing to do with a general tendency for iPads to run hot, using a case that covers the back, or the model of charger used.

On a whim, I took it to the local Apple store, where they ran a diagnostic and confirmed that it was in fact overheating due to a malfunction. In a stroke of unbelievable luck, my warranty was still good, due to run out tomorrow. Close call.

I mention this only as a counterpoint to the reply that heat is a problem we have to deal with using iPads, and to suggest that if you have one that heats up (assuming it hasn't been left in direct sunlight, that is), having it checked out might be worthwhile.

Tosh
 
Good you ran it to the Apple store - I had one do that as well, and they sent me home with a new one.

Note that the 12V charger *can* in fact affect heat in the iPad, though. Some of the "dumb" adapters, as well as the "smart" ones that may not be so smart after all, can cause the iPad to charge/heat in ways you might not like.

But too hot to touch, that's likely to be a problem with the iPad itself. Frankly, it should shut down by the time it gets that hot.
 
greghughespdx said:
Good you ran it to the Apple store - I had one do that as well, and they sent me home with a new one.

Note that the 12V charger *can* in fact affect heat in the iPad, though. Some of the "dumb" adapters, as well as the "smart" ones that may not be so smart after all, can cause the iPad to charge/heat in ways you might not like.

But too hot to touch, that's likely to be a problem with the iPad itself. Frankly, it should shut down by the time it gets that hot.
Click to expand...

It never got that hot, thankfully, but enough so to be of concern.

I've read that many of the 12v chargers out there are counterfeit, if that's the correct term. The one I'm using came from the Apple store, which may not guarantee authenticity, I suppose, but it's not like snagging one off the Internet.
 
Tango Mike,
Good call on getting it looked at by Apple and I hope they send you a new one. Just wanted to clarify a couple of things regarding the iPad. Gen 4 with Retina display is a great choice. The fact that you don't have the cell version simply means that you don't have a GPS chip in your iPad. The iPad will use Location Services through any WiFi that you are connected to. It uses a combination of IP address database to estimate your location as well as something called WPS or WiFi Positioning System. These methods are used by Google and others to pinpoint the location of their users through IP address and other WiFi access points. So if you are at a coffee shop with your iPad and connect to their network, it knows that you are in that location so the blue circle will show up. I just tested this to be true and actually sort of interesting. I live in Atlanta and used my work computer to VPN to my work in San Jose. I then made my laptop the access point and connected my iPad to my laptop utilizing it's IP address (because the of VPN I receive my work's IP address in San Jose). I opened Google maps on my iPad and to my surprise it shows me in San Jose near my work :D . This is very similar to IP spoofing that a lot of the hackers do so they don't get caught....

Now back to your situation. Using the GDL 39 will give you the GPS that you are missing. The GDL GPS is much more precise than the built in GPS that comes in cellular version of the iPad. So if you are considering buying a new iPad with Cellular capabilities just for the built in GPS and NOT turning on your cell service, then you are not gaining anything. Where the new cellular iPad comes handy is having functionality in the cockpit while on the ground or even in your car. You can get weather, file flight plans, download charts, approach plates, etc while in the hanger or in the cockpit doing pre-flight, but you can't do that without the cell version obviously, unless you are connected to the Internet via WiFi.

sorry it was long winded but you had asked some questions that weren't really answered yet.

Hope this helps.

Amir
 
BCP Boys said:
Tango Mike,
Good call on getting it looked at by Apple and I hope they send you a new one. Just wanted to clarify a couple of things regarding the iPad. Gen 4 with Retina display is a great choice. The fact that you don't have the cell version simply means that you don't have a GPS chip in your iPad. The iPad will use Location Services through any WiFi that you are connected to. It uses a combination of IP address database to estimate your location as well as something called WPS or WiFi Positioning System. These methods are used by Google and others to pinpoint the location of their users through IP address and other WiFi access points. So if you are at a coffee shop with your iPad and connect to their network, it knows that you are in that location so the blue circle will show up. I just tested this to be true and actually sort of interesting. I live in Atlanta and used my work computer to VPN to my work in San Jose. I then made my laptop the access point and connected my iPad to my laptop utilizing it's IP address (because the of VPN I receive my work's IP address in San Jose). I opened Google maps on my iPad and to my surprise it shows me in San Jose near my work :D . This is very similar to IP spoofing that a lot of the hackers do so they don't get caught....

Now back to your situation. Using the GDL 39 will give you the GPS that you are missing. The GDL GPS is much more precise than the built in GPS that comes in cellular version of the iPad. So if you are considering buying a new iPad with Cellular capabilities just for the built in GPS and NOT turning on your cell service, then you are not gaining anything. Where the new cellular iPad comes handy is having functionality in the cockpit while on the ground or even in your car. You can get weather, file flight plans, download charts, approach plates, etc while in the hanger or in the cockpit doing pre-flight, but you can't do that without the cell version obviously, unless you are connected to the Internet via WiFi.

sorry it was long winded but you had asked some questions that weren't really answered yet.

Hope this helps.

Amir
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, and I picked up a new Gen4 retina iPad through warranty replacement this afternoon, which started a whole new set of problems.

Transferring the contents of my old iPad over to the new failed to bring the Garmin Pilot help file with it. I called the GP help desk and was told that the app was probably corrupted and to remove it, then reinstall it from iTunes. All of my customizations were deleted, of course.

This afternoon I began downloading everything again with the new app and built a flight plan to check the file and weather brief function. I couldn't get the weather brief because my of an error message informing me that my DUAT(S) access code and/or password are bad.

Turns out they aren't, but the iPad/GP interface isn't letting me into the DUATS system, and when I checked to see if I could file a flight plan, I got an error message that said, "Device unavailable for code: ios----------- followed by a long string of letters and numbers that mean absolutely nothing to me.

Something happened in the process of transferring over to the new iPad that is preventing me from using DUATS.

Who knows how long it will take me to get some help tomorrow? I guess I'll call GP first, and they'll probably tell me it's an Apple problem and I'll try to talk with them about it and end up even more frustrated than I am now.
 
Final report on the iPad heat issue

The last problem encountered at the end of this saga probably belongs in a new thread because it's not about iPad heating up, but it's a consequence of having transferred the Garmin Pilot app to a new iPad, losing the help file for the app in the process, having to remove the app from the iPad and then re-installing it to regain use of the help file.

The app installed on the iPad as a trial version, even though I did that through my existing Apple ID. I didn't know to go to the subscriptions page and sign in as an existing user to gain access to my Garmin Pilot services.

That makes me feel like a fool, but at my age it's not an unusual condition.

:)
 
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