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Ex Bonanza Bucko

Well Known Member
At OSH and on the AOPA site Rotax says they have delivered 400 fuel injected 100 HP engines this year.

I would love to know about any experience you may have with one of these in an RV12. Rotax claims the injected engines reduce fuel consumption by 30% and that the auto mixture will produce a bigger reduction by going to LOP above 8000 MSL automatically.

I also wonder if anyone has any G2 and Van's using an injected Rotax in the S-LSA RV12s they have said they will produce.

I am in the list for a factory RV 12 but my old (75 and maybe too old) bod is getting an itch to build one. Gonna be checking that out with locals here at KSEE in El Cajon, Ca.

You can get me here or at [email protected]. Please use RV12 in the subject line to prevent messages getting seen as spam.

EX BB:)
 
Young enough

You are a youth by some measure. There is an RV-12 being built, with help, up in Yucca Valley by a fellow who is in his 90s. He currently flies his RV-7A a couple of times a week but figures he is ready to move to the 12.

Tony
 
Fuel injected Rotax

The following statement is made from observations made here on the form and via the web.

Vans at this time has no plans to use the 912SI in any of its SLSAs or ELSAs. As far as I know there are no flying RV12s with an SI engine in it. So until an individual chooses to build a RV12 as an EAB and installs one we have no data.:mad:

IMHO until Rotax decides to discontinue the 912uls Vans will not in brace it. They have far to many other things going on for their engineers to work on!;)
 
912is offers more than just fuel injection

The new engine has increased electrical output specifically to run multiple digital displays and even entertainment systems. I think the airplane started down the yellow brick road with SkyView and there is no end in sight to future improvements. One big issue with the current panel is that if the big box fails there is NO partial panel. No attitude, no compass, no way to squawk 7700, no airspeed, no altitude, etc. So, the logical step is dual displays, like the G1000 which is what I think Dynon has always had in mind for SV.

The new engine will provide the juice for future upgrades, and I'll bet Van's is already planning for this.

Tony
 
If the alternator fails, there goes your backup panel.

Better off with the D1, or your ipad, Tony.

Bob Bogash
N737G
 
Strted my -12 at 70

and finished at 71+.

143WM has backup 1.25" altimeter, airspeed and a ball (skid indicator). Now if I had added a needle I'd have it all./

Wayne 120241/143WM
 
I'd love to see the injected engine! The added 15 pounds may be a show stopper for Van's though. If given the option I'd jump on it. Then again I don't order my engine until next year...

Bob
 
Here's another idea

677934e4-e95e-4c07-bafc-68aabc46d7bd_zps0bcb9278.jpg


Don
 
bhassel said:
I'd love to see the injected engine! The added 15 pounds may be a show stopper for Van's though. If given the option I'd jump on it. Then again I don't order my engine until next year...

Bob
Click to expand...

15 pounds a show stopper? Come on! just add a few pounds in the tailcone (and/or increase the fuel tank capacity by a few gallons).
The real show stopper for VANs is, as mentioned earlier, their limited engineering resources against their priorities. This is why the only hope to get the 912is in the RV-12 sooner rather than later is that Rotax stops the 912 ULS line. It will happen anyway as, at some point, the demand will drop so much that it will not be worth manufacturing it any longer. I have no idea how close we are from this point not having Rotax production figures at hand.
 
WingedFrog said:
15 pounds a show stopper? Come on! just add a few pounds in the tailcone (and/or increase the fuel tank capacity by a few gallons).
The real show stopper for VANs is, as mentioned earlier, their limited engineering resources against their priorities. This is why the only hope to get the 912is in the RV-12 sooner rather than later is that Rotax stops the 912 ULS line. It will happen anyway as, at some point, the demand will drop so much that it will not be worth manufacturing it any longer. I have no idea how close we are from this point not having Rotax production figures at hand.
Click to expand...

I know this is a contriversal(sp?) item; however, if the current battery was replaced by a li-Fe battery...there wouldn't be a weight issue.
 
WingedFrog said:
15 pounds a show stopper? Come on! just add a few pounds in the tailcone (and/or increase the fuel tank capacity by a few gallons).
Click to expand...

FWIW,

Data taken out of the respective manufacturers websites:

Jabiru 3300 @178 lbs
Jabiru 2200 @134 lbs
Rotax 912S @144 lbs
Rotax 912IS@160 lbs

The weights above include the weight of published accessories not to include the engine mount nor of the prop.

The 3 RV-12 Jabs in operation are swinging a lighter weight prop but also have longer engine mounts. The one 3300 has wing tanks versus a fuselage tank. Weight and balance has not been an issue with these installs.

My wag is that the 912IS would be a nice improvement for the -12. Also, I see Don Rivera at Airflow Performance has his engineering hat on again. His Rotax mod would probably be well worth looking at.
 
I would think that the weight difference would be a structural issue versus a W&B issue. As many have mentioned the W&B could be overcome. The Jab 3300's all have stiffing at the firewall and tunnel to make up for the structural issues of the heavier weight. I'm just not enough of an engineer (don't even play one on TV) to know what is needed where.

Bob
 
Maybe not techno glamour but it works.

OK so we?re not cool electronic fuel injection. But I can?t buy 30% saving in fuel burn either. It takes so much fuel to make a HP. So if 100 HP takes 8 GPH, you sure as heck are not going to make 100 HP on 5.6 GPH.

The facts on our mechanical fuel injection system on a Rotax 912 are; 8-12% increase in HP, 4-6% decrease in fuel burn at the same HP settings over the carbs. A net gain of 7 lbs for the conversion. No need for additional batteries or alternator?s. Proven fuel system components (over 2000 in the field on Lycoming's). Redundant fuel supply, (electric aux pump, engine driven main fuel pump). LOP operation by pilots discretion, not stuck with factory settings. Five planes flying with this system, all have 200-600 hours in service.

I don?t know what a 912IS costs but this kit will add around $4000.00 to the price of a 912. And we didn?t have mega bucks to develop this system like Rotax. Did it in about 6 months in 2009.

Don
 
Question about 912 iS

May be this question should be asked to Rotax but I will drop it here just in case:
The carburated 912 exists in two versions - 912 S for certified airplanes and 912 ULS for experimentals . Why is the 912 iS available only in the certified version?
 
Don at Airflow said:
OK so we?re not cool electronic fuel injection. But I can?t buy 30% saving in fuel burn either. It takes so much fuel to make a HP. So if 100 HP takes 8 GPH, you sure as heck are not going to make 100 HP on 5.6 GPH.

The facts on our mechanical fuel injection system on a Rotax 912 are; 8-12% increase in HP, 4-6% decrease in fuel burn at the same HP settings over the carbs. A net gain of 7 lbs for the conversion. No need for additional batteries or alternator?s. Proven fuel system components (over 2000 in the field on Lycoming's). Redundant fuel supply, (electric aux pump, engine driven main fuel pump). LOP operation by pilots discretion, not stuck with factory settings. Five planes flying with this system, all have 200-600 hours in service.

I don?t know what a 912IS costs but this kit will add around $4000.00 to the price of a 912. And we didn?t have mega bucks to develop this system like Rotax. Did it in about 6 months in 2009.

Don
Click to expand...

Hi Don, where can I find info on your system? I could not find it referenced on your website.
 
DAGO said:
FWIW,

Data taken out of the respective manufacturers websites:

Jabiru 3300 @178 lbs
Jabiru 2200 @134 lbs
Rotax 912S @144 lbs
Rotax 912IS@160 lbs

The weights above include the weight of published accessories not to include the engine mount nor of the prop.

The 3 RV-12 Jabs in operation are swinging a lighter weight prop but also have longer engine mounts. The one 3300 has wing tanks versus a fuselage tank. Weight and balance has not been an issue with these installs.

My wag is that the 912IS would be a nice improvement for the -12. Also, I see Don Rivera at Airflow Performance has his engineering hat on again. His Rotax mod would probably be well worth looking at.
Click to expand...

Tom,
Who's the third Jabiru- in addition to you and Oren?
 
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