DeltaRomeo

DeltaRomeo

doug reeves: unfluencer
Staff member
(reproduced here from front page of VansAirForce.net for archives/discussion)

DON’T MAKE THIS MISTAKE!!!!!
WE WERE LUCKY!!!!
By Roger H. "Woodman"

I wasn’t going to tell the community about this situation fearing it would make me look foolish. However, it provides an excellent and uncommon educational moment, so here goes.

About two months ago my best buddy was taking a friend of his for a ride in our airplane when, on takeoff, he ran into a flock of blackbirds. They heard a bang and knew a bird had been struck. After leveling off, they observed feathers and feet waving in the wind near the right wingtip. Everything felt OK so the flight was resumed with no sign of anything wrong. After landing, they discovered that one bird had impacted directly on the lens of the Duckworks taxi light. It shattered the lens and bulb but didn’t hit any aluminum at all. We ordered a new lens and bulb and replaced what had been broken. Everything was cleaned up and the new bulb and lens were replaced.

About a month later my wife and I were getting ready to go flying. My Sweetie did a thorough preflight inspection and everything was in good order. I should mention that after the lens was replaced my friend and I logged at least a half dozen flights.

As Myra and I were taxiing to the active runway, I moved the stick in all directions, as I routinely do, and found that the ailerons were literally LOCKED AND WOULD NOT MOVE. We shut down and I proceeded to identify the problem. I tried to move the ailerons by hand while standing next to the wing and they would not budge. I was able to get a little movement and I heard a slight clicking sound coming from the right wing. I kept inspecting and could not find what was causing the noise or the frozen condition. As I moved towards the wingtip the click became louder and I noticed a reflection between the wingtip and the aileron. A PIECE OF PLASTIC FROM THE BROKEN LENS HAD WORKED ITS WAY FROM THE LEADING EDGE, OVER A RIB AND SLID DOWN BETWEEN THE WINGTIP AND AILERON. It had wedged itself at the very aft part of the two surfaces and locked the ailerons. WOW! I removed the plastic and tapped with the palm of my hand on the bottom surface of the wingtip to see if I could hear anything else rattling inside. There was n
o sound so I assumed that it was just one piece that made its way past the lens reflector and into the wing. My Sweetie said, “What makes you think there aren’t any more pieces in the wingtip?” Mistake number two. We flew to our”must get to” fly-in, fortunately, with no further incident and glad that this happened on the ground.

The following day I told my friend of the experience and he related to me that about a week prior when he took the plane up for a solo flight he felt a momentary sticking and assumed the seat belt on the right seat had become wedged near the control stick. He moved the belt and all was normal. When I explained what had happened the day before, he immediately began taking screws out of the wingtip. WE FOUND AT LEAST A DOZEN MORE PIECES OF PLASTIC inside the wingtip and between the two most outboard ribs. We removed what we could see by hand and then vacuumed as much as we could reach until we were sure all debris was removed. The lesson here is if ever you have something go wrong, carefully examine every area that could be affected and do not leave anything to chance. Disassemble parts if you have to. We didn’t think anything could have passed the reflector in the back of the light but when we looked closer after the this incident we saw there is a ¼” space at the very top of the reflector that is not readily
visible when looking at the lens straight on.

The photos depict how the plastic was wedged in the wingtip. I painted it for the pictures. Because it is made of clear plastic it is almost impossible to see until it caused a problem. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Woodman (Roger H.).

2hn449d.jpg
 
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i hope the most important lesson is, when you fly into anything other than air, YOU LAND IMMEDIATLY! why? read the article, "Everything felt OK so the flight was resumed with no sign of anything wrong." enough said, we are thankfull you are ok! thinking that everything is ok isnt acceptable, knowing it is ok, saves lives.
 
Wow! My heart skipped a beat! DR, that is an amazing story, thanks for sharing!


Glad it turned out the way it did! YIKES! :eek:




[ed. Just clarifying it was Roger that had this happen. I'm just the copy/paste text guy! <g>. My heart skipped a beat too! dr]
 
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The same thing can happen when hardware, nuts, bolts, tools, rags, debris etc.. go missing. Always do a final closeout inspection for FOD before closing up an area.
 
Dorkus Maximus LLC is proud to introduce our new.... Automatic Control Lock. Only$9.95 + shipping/handling. Order now and we'll send two for the price of one. Now how much would you pay? Don't answer yet. Operators standing by.
 
I sometimes wonder how many of the NTSB investigations of aircraft crashes, as thorough as they are, do not find the real cause of the crash. If this RV had crashed there probably would not have been enough evidence to point to the plastic piece wedged where it was. Sometimes the reports point to a possible health problem, or flying too slow, or banking too steeply, etc.

Thanks for having the fortitude and forthrightness to share your experience. You will never know how many lives you may have saved.
 
Back in my days as a CFI in wintery upstate NY, we always cautioned our pilots to check for control surface blockage caused by internal airframe ice. Many airplanes (including RVs) have voids or open areas at the ends of ailerons and elevators that seem to attract and hold rain water that can turn to ice overnight. These little blocks of ice can dislodge in flight and potentially block or interfere with control surface movement -- similar to your blockage issue. It always seems to be the little things that get you. -- David
 
Please tell your story

I was disturbed by the opening comment that he at first was not going to post for fear some might think less of him. I just want to advocate to tell your story to all on this forum, of course unless there is a legal reason not to do so.

One of the pinnacles of the military safety program is that one has to get their story out so that safety can be improved. This fellow has now put the knowledge into a lot of minds that might not have done a good thorough inspection after a bird strike.

When you do something dumb or something unexpected happens to you please tell your story on this site. Not only is it a great source of all build information, it has the potential to be a hub of safety information flow not yet seen in the GA world. Only when we read of repeated incidences can we improve out safety.

I nearly scrapped me and my RIO off the water when new to the F14, I had intercepted a low slow aircraft headed toward the ship (exercise not even real world) He was 200 ft off the water, I was given the "Kill" order, so to maneuver for a shot I pulled the nose of to perform a high yo yo, I selected full throttle but not afterburner, (known as Mil Power). Nose low at the bottom of the yo yo I was rolling and pulling to align for a gun shot, the aircraft felt mushy in roll. I instinctively applied rudder to help the roll knowing I was getting into a stall but low to the water I could not relax the back pressure, I also applied full afterburner. This was the only time in my career at that I actually looked down at the ejection handle and seriously considered punching me and my RIO out. Luckily the aircraft responded and we began to climb, as I this happened the King Air that was simulating a low slow aircraft for the exercise was in a perfect position for a gun shot, a few seconds of video with the gun sight on him and I call one bandit dead.

When I returned back to the ship, that night in the ready room I related what happened to me in order to help others. You see I suffered from the classic transference, if you are knew to an airplane there is a tendency to transfer back to the airplane you know. I was on an exchange assignment, I was an Air Force guy loaned to the Navy, I had come off the F15 and the maneuver I performed with military power in the F14 would have most likely been fine in the F15, I had not flown the F14 enough to get a feel for what power was required. I had spent a lot of time flying low altitude in Germany, we had low fly areas that were a free play area and any one there was fair game. Kind of fun interrupting Alpha jet, F18, F4 A10s you name it. Of course there were rules and you were limited to only 180 degrees of maneuvering.

Many of us will come to our RVs with experience in other aircraft when stress and new to the plane you are likely to do the same. Keep this in mind and this is why transition training is a good idea.
 
Walt said:
The same thing can happen when hardware, nuts, bolts, tools, rags, debris etc.. go missing. Always do a final closeout inspection for FOD before closing up an area.
Click to expand...

...Digging in the belly of the -8 (flown for almost 400 hours, mind you), I discovered a 6 inch long 7/16 combination wrench... :eek:

...I wonder if the builder/prior owner of the airplane wants his wrench back?
 
I'm not an expert, but I think flying with ailerons locked in the neutral position wouldn't be an automatic death sentence, assuming you aren't trying to land into a crosswind. This is a great cautionary tale and I'm grateful to hear it and glad you and your friends/family are ok.
 
From Roger

Thanks for the positive comments guys. It's appreciated. I have discussed this occurrence with quite a few pilots who ask me what I would have done if this happened on takeoff or in flight. Here is my answer:
In takoff I would have put the nose down into level flight and made turns using the rudder. I have actually practiced this type of flying and the answer came to me instinctively. I have simulated the incident and did indeed find the RV6 to be very controlable in this mode. A crosswind would have been a factor as well as using trim only in the flare, but very doable if I wouldn't panic first. Practice a few landings using only trim.
Woodman
 
jimbower said:
I'm not an expert, but I think flying with ailerons locked in the neutral position wouldn't be an automatic death sentence, assuming you aren't trying to land into a crosswind. This is a great cautionary tale and I'm grateful to hear it and glad you and your friends/family are ok.
Click to expand...

A slight deflection of the aileron on an RV causes a considerable roll response. For a locked aileron to not be a major headache, I imagine it would have to be perfectly faired and the airplane perfectly rigged (straight).

It might not be a death sentence, but clearly an emergency situation.
 
Interesting....

I am now wondering if something similar happened to me last fall. After returning from my long September flight (9 days of flying), I noticed that my left aileron had a small bend in it. The fiberglass on the wing tip was cracked on both the top and bottom across from the bend. I have been assuming that someone at one of the airports that I overnighted at had damaged my plane. Now after reading this I am thinking that maybe something got jammed in between and when I moved the aileron the damage happened, but the object must have fallen out.

I am working on fixing the wing tip currently (it sure takes fiberglass a long time to cure when it is cold out). I decided that I would seal the back portion of the wing tip. I did this think that it might be better aerodynamically, but I am thinking now that this would also be safer.

Kent
 
Jammed aileron in flight.

About 5 years ago I had a similar experience. A small screwdriver was left in the wing and worked its way down to the bottom corner of the wing where it jammed the aileron in flight while I was straight & level I called the tower and they and they declared and emergency for me and told me cleared to land on any runway. I didn't know what was jamming the controls so I gently moved the stick back and forth until the jam cleared. I made a real flat turn around to the runway and landed with out incident. It took me 2 days to find out what jammed the aileron but after removing both wingtips I found the screwdriver.
I sealed the opening from the wing so that could never happen again.]
Don
 
What type of RV was this? The reason I ask is that Vans plans for the RV-7 wingtips include a metallic rib riveted to the the inside of the wingtip which would prevent anything inside the wingtip from coming into contact with the aileron or jamming it's motion. I always wondered if these metallic ribs were really necessary but this story illustrates why they are important. Did this A/C not have these ribs installed?
 
Elevator

kentb said:
I am now wondering if something similar happened to me last fall. After returning from my long September flight (9 days of flying), I noticed that my left aileron had a small bend in it. The fiberglass on the wing tip was cracked on both the top and bottom across from the bend. I have been assuming that someone at one of the airports that I overnighted at had damaged my plane. Now after reading this I am thinking that maybe something got jammed in between and when I moved the aileron the damage happened, but the object must have fallen out.

Kent
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I suspect had something like this occur once, with the elevators. On run-up I could feel resistance in the stick, which had never happened before. I went back to the hangar and spent next couple of hours exposing and inspecting the entire control system, but found nothing (the rear stick was not installed at the time in case anyone's wondering). Never happened again, and in my case there was no obvious damage. I suspect that something kicked up off the runway to foul the elevators, but then dislodged itself.
 
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Noah,
this occurred in an RV6-A. I have seen that many builders seal the aft part of the wingtip with foam and fiberglas. That would have prevented the problem and it is on my to-do list.
Woodman
 
when my dogs eat tear things up i often recreate the item to see if something is missing, ie possibly ingested.

i think doctors do this also when operating, they have an inventory to make sure nothing is left in the wrong place?

something to think about in a damage situation is to find all the pieces if possible, puzzle them back together and see if parts are missing (loose in the airframe) It might seem very difficult but it is amazing what can be found with a little bit of patience. I shot a tahr in 2008 and was careful to see the location of the animal and what was behind it. despite an acute angle i was able to find the bullet and examine its construction after it did its job very well on the animal, it was very interesting for me to see the projectile after traveling apx 100 yards of air apx 20-26" of animal and 2" of dirt.
 
During my first annual, I found a 1/4" about 3" long AN bolt in one of my wing tips. It freaked me out and although I knew there are no bolts of such size in that area, I went and checked all the plans and all the connections that I could think of in the wing. I am still baffled where that came from?
 
Bavafa said:
During my first annual, I found a 1/4" about 3" long AN bolt in one of my wing tips. It freaked me out and although I knew there are no bolts of such size in that area, I went and checked all the plans and all the connections that I could think of in the wing. I am still baffled where that came from?
Click to expand...


A few years ago we had a maintainer lose a tool in an FA-18. It flew about a half dozen times before he confessed, I was one of thsoe flights. :mad:

They had been working on a fuel cell in the center section of the fuselage, opened the jet back up, and couldn't find the tool. Opened every inspection panel in the fuselage, no luck. Eventually found it in an engine bay. From where they had been working, to where the tool wound up, there was no WAY there was a path within the fuselage from point A to B. A mystery to this day.


So a bird strike, with visible evidence, and the flight wasn't aborted? First COLOSSAL mistake. For the life of me, I can't possibly understand the rationalization here. But, moving on.

The second is, when you have an instance of FOD in an airplane, that airplane is DOWN until every piece is accounted for. Meaning you better be able to recontruct that lens with all the pieces. If you CAN'T find all the pieces, then you dissasemble everything until you either 1.) find the rest of the pieces or 2.) determine that you are FOD free. No less. The OP's experience tells us why.

Good on you for owning up to this. It's only though experience can we use better judgement. And I don't know about the rest of you, but I prefer to read about others experience and learn from it, than do it myself.
 
Watch the tone please

Words like "COLOSSAL" are a bit strong and my cause someone not to post an experience, one of the things I think we need to avoid. Open and honest posts without judgments. We all have lapses in judgment, own up to them and tell us the story. The person telling the story more than likely knows they messed up. We don't need to tell them what they already know with condescending comments of our own.

My .02

Sig600 said:
A few years ago we had a maintainer lose a tool in an FA-18. It flew about a half dozen times before he confessed, I was one of thsoe flights. :mad:

They had been working on a fuel cell in the center section of the fuselage, opened the jet back up, and couldn't find the tool. Opened every inspection panel in the fuselage, no luck. Eventually found it in an engine bay. From where they had been working, to where the tool wound up, there was no WAY there was a path within the fuselage from point A to B. A mystery to this day.


So a bird strike, with visible evidence, and the flight wasn't aborted? First COLOSSAL mistake. For the life of me, I can't possibly understand the rationalization here. But, moving on.

The second is, when you have an instance of FOD in an airplane, that airplane is DOWN until every piece is accounted for. Meaning you better be able to recontruct that lens with all the pieces. If you CAN'T find all the pieces, then you dissasemble everything until you either 1.) find the rest of the pieces or 2.) determine that you are FOD free. No less. The OP's experience tells us why.

Good on you for owning up to this. It's only though experience can we use better judgement. And I don't know about the rest of you, but I prefer to read about others experience and learn from it, than do it myself.
Click to expand...
 
RVG8tor said:
Words like "COLOSSAL" are a bit strong and my cause someone not to post an experience, one of the things I think we need to avoid. Open and honest posts without judgments. We all have lapses in judgment, own up to them and tell us the story. The person telling the story more than likely knows they messed up. We don't need to tell them what they already know with condescending comments of our own.

My .02
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I would agree, but by the same token someone else out there may think the course of action was acceptable unless discussed (which I never saw mentioned). It's not a personal attack on ones character or ability (at that point, learning stops and honesty becomes defensivness), but meant to underline just how poor the desicion was for those it was unclear too.

Anyone who wants to be taken seriously as a professional aviator has got to learn to take the good with the bad, and be willing to share their screw ups as well as learn from others. You've got to have a thick skin to take on board what people tell you not as critisizm, but critique. (Had a guy in my squadron that could not seperate the two, he no longer flies). I've done some SERIOUSLY stupid things in 17 years of flying, which while not proud of, I was/am more than willing to share with others in my squadron/work in the hopes that they learn from them. Personally I applaude the OP for posting this and would never think any less of someone for owning up the way he did.
 
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Why not!?!?!

For the original poster and anyone else with an "I learned from that" story I hope this does one big thing...tell your story. My squadron flies on average 100 student training events a day. That is about 50 separate aircraft each day. One thing we do it to have an open, non-punitive email forum just like this, and we have at least one each day. Some benign, some dangerous, and a few where the more senior of us say "you did what?" But I hate to imagine how many accidents or near miss we might have without it. PLEASE share your story, it will probably save someone else if not more. At least that way something good comes out of the damage. Additionally, we are a Navy squadron, with the full financing of the Navy (OUR tax dollars), and the full pressure to make new aviators (read this as probably MORE pressure to go than any leisure flight could/should have) and we have full support from our leadership to cancel, even if its just our spidey senses saying "don't go". I always cancel for three strikes, and it has kept me safe.
 
These are some of the Items I can remember finding loose in airplanes:
1) Wooden handled phillips with handle 1/2 rotted away (Beech mouseketeer).
2) 2D maglite wedged in rudder pedals (C-320).
3) Mac 3/8 combo wrench, my favorite (C-182 subfloor).
4) 3D maglite (Delta 737 wheelwell).
5) 5/16 Ace hdwe combo wrench (C-206 under pedal floor).
6) Diamond "Ford Wrench" (Delta 737 wheelwell).
7) Big bucking bar with "rust outline" (C-441 wheelwell).
8) Mac stubby #2 phillips (C-340 behind pressure bulk).
9) Milbar safety wire pliers (Delta 737 wheelwell).
10) Bucking bar (M20-C wintip).
11) nuts, bolts, lotsa washers, drilled rivets, screws, ink pens, jolly ranchers, plotters, tinnerman clips, battery box covers, etc.

It's been a good deal for me because I not only use all these tools, but have even reinstalled some of the hardware I've found.

Items I've lost (that I know of):
1) sidecutters, found after one flight by coworker (PA28R front baffle).
2) Mac clutchless palm wrench, found by ex boss at another airport (C-R172).
 
One day I found the tiny pin that holds the wristband to a watch on the back seat of a glider. I didn't fly it until we found the watch -- under the seat pan, right next to the elevator bell crank. :eek:
 
RVG8tor said:
Words like "COLOSSAL" are a bit strong and my cause someone not to post an experience, one of the things I think we need to avoid. Open and honest posts without judgments. We all have lapses in judgment, own up to them and tell us the story. The person telling the story more than likely knows they messed up. We don't need to tell them what they already know with condescending comments of our own.

My .02
Click to expand...

Sig600 said:
I would agree, but by the same token someone else out there may think the course of action was acceptable unless discussed (which I never saw mentioned). It's not a personal attack on ones character or ability (at that point, learning stops and honesty becomes defensivness), but meant to underline just how poor the desicion was for those it was unclear too.

Anyone who wants to be taken seriously as a professional aviator has got to learn to take the good with the bad, and be willing to share their screw ups as well as learn from others. You've got to have a thick skin to take on board what people tell you not as critisizm, but critique. (Had a guy in my squadron that could not seperate the two, he no longer flies). I've done some SERIOUSLY stupid things in 17 years of flying, which while not proud of, I was/am more than willing to share with others in my squadron/work in the hopes that they learn from them. Personally I applaude the OP for posting this and would never think any less of someone for owning up the way he did.
Click to expand...

Well Sig, at the risk of makin' this a 2 v 1, I gotta go with Nemo on this point. There are many fighter types here, the three of us included, and most pilots get the thick skin part. For instance, RV formation bubbas know to check the ego at the debrief door.

But this is also an online family, and style points count too, especially when the diversity of the pilot group is as immense as this. We can cut to the chase, but more folks will be reached, and more will continue to post their oooops moments, if tone, oh so hard to interpret in e-media, is respectful, rather than a face shot. Critiques can be direct without being condescending. I aint milk toast, but this aint quite a ready room either. Just a debrief item for you, shipmate! ;)

My interpretation is that Roger wasn't even the pilot of the birdstrike flight, but I wouldn't want to deter that pilot from posting either, if he wanted to share.

What the story is really about (and Sig, you made some good points here) is post incident actions, post maintenance inspection, and FOD control (with a good drift into tool control). Jammed flight controls are a nightmare. I go OCD when I look for dropped hardware, and drove myself crazy looking for my missing 5/16 open end wrench...till it turned up in the backpack I had stashed some road tools in. "Navy Training, Sir!" :rolleyes: Biggest find for me was a t-shirt stuffed in the tailcone...must have been there during (pre-purchase) painting...why, I'll never know. But that pre-buy inspection was obviously not as deep as my first condition inspection (I didn't know what I didn't know). It was not impacting controls, but it was a shocker...and a pisser!

I'm sure we all have a good FOD story. Someday I'll tell ya the story of getting the sleeve pocket cut off of my flight suit by my Skipper...for dropping coins out of it...in front of a turning TA-4 motor (none went in!) Now that was colossally stupid (but I can say that about me!) :p

Cheers,
Bob
 
Don't recall all the details, but the Yak -52 is apparently subject to an elevator jam due to tools or other FOD working their way back to the tailcone.

A jam doesn't require acro or a hot airplane. I once gave myself restricted aileron travel by allowing a headset jack to dangle down into the stick base area on a J-3. At 50 ft on departure it made for a few anxious moments when it would not bank right. Good case for stick boots. The rear stick on an RV8 is a fine example.

The local paint shop found a 50lb bag of portland cement in the tailcone of a Seneca. I'm not kidding.
 
Again,
Thanks for all of the feedback to my post. A little more clarification:
It is correct that I wasn't the pilot that day. The reason we didn't suspect any stray particles is because the Duckworks light appears to be self sealed (as it is now). We figuered that the bits of plastic ended up in the wild blue yonder. What we found remaining in the lens were some of the larger pieces. When I spoke to the pilot about why he didn't land, he explained that the impact wasn't as traumatic as I was led to believe.
Woodman
 
Perhaps this is a good reason to fibreglas the end rib portion of the wing tip flush?

In this case the FOD was known, but anything getting into that same aileron/tip gap will work back to the narrow section and possibly jam...:(
 
rvmills said:
I'm sure we all have a good FOD story. Someday I'll tell ya the story of getting the sleeve pocket cut off of my flight suit by my Skipper...for dropping coins out of it...in front of a turning TA-4 motor (none went in!) Now that was colossally stupid (but I can say that about me!) :p

Cheers,
Bob
Click to expand...

I happen to be related to the guy that made the pen pocket flap standard after one worked it's way out and went down an A-4 intake.

Had a plane captain slide out of an intake on her duct dive, and about a buck fifty in change followed right behind her jingling all over the ramp. I just downed the jet and walked right back inside.

As far as jammed controls, I watched two co-workers struggle for 12 minutes trying to maintain control of a C-172 with no aileron control before it finally crashed short of the airport in front of all of us.
 
DanH said:
Don't recall all the details, but the Yak -52 is apparently subject to an elevator jam due to tools or other FOD working their way back to the tailcone.
Click to expand...

I used to hangar next to a buddy with a Yak-52, and part of his pre-flight was to bang on the the bottom of the fuselage between the cockpit and tail. One day he was doing that and heard a wrench bounce. Evidently the Russians didn't design a lot of user-friendliness into that airplane, as it took a couple of hours to retreive that wrench.
 
I'll own COLOSSAL

Sig600 said:
So a bird strike, with visible evidence, and the flight wasn't aborted? First COLOSSAL mistake. For the life of me, I can't possibly understand the rationalization here. But, moving on.
Click to expand...

Even before reading Bob's wise words below, the word COLOSSAL jumped out at me here, and made me re-evaluate my CFI's response to a bird-strike I had 30 years ago (details below), so for me at least, I appreciated the "tough love" in Sig's words.

rvmills said:
But this is also an online family, and style points count too, especially when the diversity of the pilot group is as immense as this. We can cut to the chase, but more folks will be reached, and more will continue to post their oooops moments, if tone, oh so hard to interpret in e-media, is respectful, rather than a face shot. Critiques can be direct without being condescending. I aint milk toast, but this aint quite a ready room either. Just a debrief item for you, shipmate! ;)
Click to expand...

So Sig's word choice helped me, but I really like Bob's perspective here. I'm a newbie to building, but an old hand at online-communities. I've praised DR privately because of the tight ship he runs here, as I've seen so many similar communities in my decades on the 'net (both Inter- and ARPA-) fall apart in bitter name-calling when things get out of hand. VAF's so-called "ruthless moderation" helps (even the one time I was subjected to it), although it's really not particularly "ruthless". Doug's written rules of conduct help, too ("teach 'em correct principles, then let them govern themselves"). And Bob's counsel to extend the VAF Family metaphor even deeper helps a ton; we throw around the word Family when we support one another, and when we grieve with one another, but we should think about it when we correct one another as well. Respect works with my kids, and it should work pretty well around here, too.

VETE76 said:
#25. If an emergency occurs while flying, land as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

Works for me. If only I had known. As a 16-yo student pilot back in the '80's, my instructor and I were in a C-152, low above the Sacramento River delta, on a late-afternoon dual cross-country, when we encountered a large flock of geese heading the other way. I remember the middle-aged CFI (who was probably only mid-twenties, but what did I know, I was a dumb kid) as he grabbed the controls without so much as a "my airplane." He didn't dodge or weave much, just a little, but he cut power and configured for slow flight. The flock just kept coming and coming for what seemed like hours but probably was about a minute. The bulk of their formation had passed and it seemed like we had dodged a feathered bullet when BAM! we hit one of the last stragglers. There were still enough birds around the plane that we actually didn't know where it had hit, but the hit was loud and shocking and felt like it had more than enough force to rip something important off. The CFI called Travis AFB (tower? approach? I don't remember, but we must have already been listening to them to avoid their traffic). Travis asked several times if we were declaring an emergency, but the "wise" CFI said no, and gingerly tested each of the control surfaces in baby steps up to about standard-rate deflections. He then informed Travis we would continue on to our destination of KEDU, our little rural university field near UC Davis, probably 15 nm North of us.

When we landed there, we found a large dent in the inboard left wing LE, nearly two feet wide, a good 6 in deep, and only a few feet from the root (and the windshield). There were no bird parts that I can recall, just some blood streaks. It was scary, but to my untrained eye didn't look too bad, but I later heard the insurance company bought the aero-club plane after inspection revealed three or four ribs needed replacing.

In retrospect, I'm kinda angry the CFI didn't take-up Travis's offer to bring us in. They would have had the equipment and medical to help if things had gotten worse, whereas our destination was uncontrolled and practically deserted once we landed.

I don't remember the instructors name, but I'll own Sig's adjective and say it was a COLOSSAL mistake on my and his part to not land immediately. Like someone else on this thread said, I can say that about myself!

--Stephen

(I'm still a low-time pilot, and I've had an uneventful "career", but in my first 30 hours as a student, I had this bird strike, plus two radio failures going into towered fields, one dual, one solo, in three different airplanes. How's that for "experiential learning"?!? Still, I wonder if I really learned nearly as much as I always thought I had. Keep teaching!)
 
I'll own that "Colossal" may have been a bit... aggressive in underlying the decision making process, but it's good to see above that it's not taken as a slight against one as a professional or personal standard. As a 99% rule I'm used to guys that can take even harsh criticism to heart and not personally. To genuinely learn from it and move forward, it seems you're in that category. Again, the sharing of knowledge and experience without repercussion has always been, and will always be a pilots best tool for learning. I'm more than willing to share my instances of stupid, if only I could think of one to lead off with.

Aviation safety is something very near and dear to my heart, and something I can't stand folks being nonchalant about... thus when I see something like a bird strike after takeoff, on a joy ride, that results in the continuation of a flight/mission I have to throw the flag and bring up the decision making process. Aviation is binary, ones and zeros. We only get one chance to be wrong, and it kills me when I read reports of guys making fatal mistakes with no reward with the risk they took on, willingly being the worst case. There are very few cases cases when the risk out weighs the reward, and the only two cases I can speak with experience on were all life/death. Ferrying transplant organs for donors, and supporting troops in contact. Unless someones life is dependent, yours is not worth the risk, ever.

Stephen, for your case above... I wouldn't be so quick to second guess. It sounds like your instructor made an educated decision, slow flighting the airplane, doing a controlability check, and pressing another 15 miles rather than jump through your *** to land at a military installation and then strand the airplane there. If it had been after take off, with the decision to press on to a destination with unknown damage... then I would change my opinion. There is conservative (your CFI in this case), uber-conservative (landing at Travis), neither of which would be wrong. Then there are the infinite amount of other ways it could play out based on situations, weather, distances, terrain, fuel, etc.
 
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Uber-conservative now, uber-young then

Sig600 said:
Stephen, for your case above... I wouldn't be so quick to second guess. It sounds like your instructor made an educated decision, ...
Click to expand...

Okay, fair enough. I never really questioned his decisions much until I read this thread. I can see safety's a balancing act. Even then, I remember being glad he was aboard and I wasn't solo. Of course, I was young and brash then; now I'm a cautious, old grandfather. So my penchant for daredevil decision-making has dropped a notch or two. I'm judging him after acquiring half-a-life's experience that he lacked then (and I lacked even more!).

--Stephen

(hmmm. but what if it had been the nose gear? sure, Travis was the only tower nearby--it was within 5 nm or so--but even a fly-by there or elsewhere might have confirmed we still had the training wheel. decisions, decisions. oh well, still trying to learn, even with three decades of hindsight)
 
Well said Sig, and all good. Not trying to roll in too hard, and I know you have plenty of chaff, flares and smash to hang in any engagement. Better to say something direct than not to say anything...and the same phrase caught my eye in the OP. I concur with your assessment of the EDU vs Travis call too.

Stephen, hindsight and retrospect are powerful tools. Ya probably can't teach good judgement, but one can sure refine it, via experience (yours or others that share), hindsight and retrospect. Then you get to apply it...and I'm still tryin' to learn too! Funny how I don't seem to have to try too hard to find lessons though! :D

Cheers,
Bob
 
Thanks for sharing that experience. Something to remember.

If you are a pilot and have flown a number of hours i don't believe that any of us haven't made a poor decision that couldn't have led to something far more dangerous.
Anyone with a number of hours who says otherwise I don't believe, no ones perfect.
Remember the saying "wow, I'll never do that again"
I prefer to say, wow" I'll have to do all I can to never allow that to happen again"

and always remember, no ones allowed to ride on the wings.lol
 
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