java

java

Well Known Member
I live in Calgary. If you don't want to fly in/over mountains, you pretty much limit yourself to 180 degrees of the compass. At the same time, I am a relatively conservative pilot and I believe in learning from those who have gone before me. I found an excellent CFI with loads of mountain experience and we went up today (after much book learning on my part in advance).

Here is "Angel" waiting for us in front of the hangar...
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This is Castle Mountain. We tucked in behind it into a horseshoe canyon for me to learn a canyon turn...
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This is Mount Assiniboine. First pic we were just below summit level, and the second we climbed a bit...
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I wish I could have taken more pics, but I was too busy flying and in awe of the scenery! I've flown the flatlands, and love it, but there is nothing like flying through the Rockies. There is risk associated with flying in the mountains. Please seek competent instruction to learn what you need to know (and yes... there are things to learn that aren't in the books).

As an aside, my instructor had never flown in an RV. He has flown many types, and was very happy with my 6 and it's performance for mountain flying. We could still climb at 600fpm+ sustained, two up and lots of fuel, at 10k ft. He said it made it easy compared to a 172 ;).
 
JV,

As long as you leave yourself an out and are aware of the weather etc. mountain flying is awesome. I did a trip last year (was written up here on VAF) through your area and flew from High River over to PG right across the parks area and the scenery was magnificent.

cheers,
greg
 
Ahhh, such gorgeous pix.

I used to come to Calgary each year in winter for two weeks of ice climbing and back country skiing traverse. I know some of the mountains and they are so gorgeous. These pix brought lots of good memories from the area, many thanks.

Incidentally, we were flying in the mountains today, but nothing like in your back yard though.
 
Fantastic pictures. I visited Calgary some time back, but didn't have time for much sight seeing, I must go there again sometime and have more time to spend.

Living in the middle of Norway, I have two options; fly west into the open sea (north atlantic) or east into the mountains. Flying in moutains is therefore an integral (but informal) part of the PPL around here.

Lots of pilots from southern parts of Europe come visiting Norway during the summer months. The Norwegian AA publishes a small booklet about vfr flying in Norway, and includes a brief about mountain flying in general. it is free and can be downloaded here:

http://www.luftfartstilsynet.no/multimedia/archive/00008/VFR-guide_for_2011_8990a.pdf

IMO flying in mountains is safe as long as you know about the weather contitions and the wind conditions in particular. I tow gliders in the heart of the Norwegian mountains, and the wind conditions that scare unknowing privita pilots, is the wind contitions that glider pilots utilize to stay up for hours and hours and fly great distances. Knowing about these conditions can greatly increase endurance, fuel efficiency and in particular the climb rate on a motored airplane as well, something I didn't really bother about before I started glider towing, but the effect can be large. The updraft in the waves is so strong that an ordinary private airplane also can stay up there with the engine turned off. The danger is the downdraft, being equally strong, but in the wrong direction.
 
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Fantastic pictures. Agreed

Flying in moutains is therefore an integral (but informal) part of the PPL around here. Here too.

Lots of pilots from southern parts of Europe come visiting Norway during the summer months. Midnight sun or very long days.

IMO flying in mountains is safe as long as you know about the weather contitions and the wind conditions in particular. I tow gliders in the heart of the Norwegian mountains, and the wind conditions that scare the **** out of unknowing privita pilots, is the wind contitions that glider pilots utilize to stay up for hours and hours and fly great distances. Knowing about these conditions can greatly increase endurance, fuel efficiency and in particular the climb rate on a motored airplane as well, something I didn't really bother about before I started glider towing, but the effect can be incredible. The updraft in the waves is so strong that an ordinary private airplane also can stay up there with the engine turned off. The danger is the downdraft, being equally strong, but in the wrong direction.

I have to say that no matter which way you look at it, mountain flying is inherently riskier. It is all about justifying and mitigating the risk. There are other factors too in mountain flying than up and down draughts.

Power Cables strung across valleys.

Lack of sutable emergency landing sites.

Remoteness

Communication problems.

Weather (Mountains are cloud magnets)
 
Mountains and all ... but look at the plane!

Dude, that is a beautiful plane.

Honestly, one of the nicest I have ever seen.

Do you have any other pictures of it.
 
Survival Course

If you're going to fly in the mountains, I HIGHLY recommend the winter survival course offered by the Montana Dept of Transportation Aviation Branch - or there are probably others. It is ostensibly a winter survival course (because it's usually winter here :)) but it applies to year round survival in the event of a plane crash in wild country. It's held in January and folks from out of state often attend. The biggest take away is, if you're flying over wilderness country, prepare AND WEAR a survival vest that has in it all the things you might need if you were to go down - then know how to use it. Experience shows, if you survive a crash, you often only get out with what you are wearing. This class is taught by a world class survival expert and is excellent. I've spent my life in the wilderness guiding and hunting, but I learned a ton that was very relevant to the unusual circumstances of surviving a plane crash in the wilderness in winter, and surviving after the crash. It is usually held in January and culminates (if you choose) in spending a night out in a winter shelter of your own construction. Way cool.

see following links.
http://www.mdt.mt.gov/aviation/ed-training.shtml
http://www.eri-online.com/Aviation_Training.html
 
Nice

JV, thats sweet. Glad you are enjoying your plane. Still going to meet up for beers at Osh? Flew my hours off and am flying throught Toronto on to Ottawa next week if weather works for my first cross country and business trip. Should be great but no scenery that nice. See you over RIPON.:D
 
Instructors for RV's

Jas
great pics, nice plane, and a GREAT idea....I don't think there are many proficient mountain flyers, just those who make it thru, and those who don't.
With permission, can you give the name of the CFI? Now that he has some RV time, he could probably have a full-time job doing checkouts and the same 'course' that you took, to other RV'ers. Even us BC'ers do not get mountain flying skills putting up and down the valleys here.

One comment, the canyon behind Castle Moutain looks ideal, but I wonder how wise to practice in it?....did you do some minimum radius turns at altitude first? ( I know they 'feel' meaningless without ground reference....but that 'ground' looks awfully hard!)
 
flyboy1963 said:
Jas
great pics, nice plane, and a GREAT idea....I don't think there are many proficient mountain flyers, just those who make it thru, and those who don't.
With permission, can you give the name of the CFI? Now that he has some RV time, he could probably have a full-time job doing checkouts and the same 'course' that you took, to other RV'ers. Even us BC'ers do not get mountain flying skills putting up and down the valleys here.

One comment, the canyon behind Castle Moutain looks ideal, but I wonder how wise to practice in it?....did you do some minimum radius turns at altitude first? ( I know they 'feel' meaningless without ground reference....but that 'ground' looks awfully hard!)
Click to expand...

I'll check with him and get back to you. This was an "on the side" thing for him, apart from his primary business (flight instruction, but different situation), so I'm not sure whether he is interested in doing more of it or was just interested in getting some RV stick time.

Your comment re: Castle Mountain is a good one, and yes, we did some practice turns before we even entered the rocks, especially with him flying as he was unfamiliar with RV characteristics and performance.
 
islandmonkey said:
Fantastic pictures. Agreed

Flying in moutains is therefore an integral (but informal) part of the PPL around here. Here too.

Lots of pilots from southern parts of Europe come visiting Norway during the summer months. Midnight sun or very long days.

IMO flying in mountains is safe as long as you know about the weather contitions and the wind conditions in particular. I tow gliders in the heart of the Norwegian mountains, and the wind conditions that scare the **** out of unknowing privita pilots, is the wind contitions that glider pilots utilize to stay up for hours and hours and fly great distances. Knowing about these conditions can greatly increase endurance, fuel efficiency and in particular the climb rate on a motored airplane as well, something I didn't really bother about before I started glider towing, but the effect can be incredible. The updraft in the waves is so strong that an ordinary private airplane also can stay up there with the engine turned off. The danger is the downdraft, being equally strong, but in the wrong direction.

I have to say that no matter which way you look at it, mountain flying is inherently riskier. It is all about justifying and mitigating the risk. There are other factors too in mountain flying than up and down draughts.

Power Cables strung across valleys.

Lack of sutable emergency landing sites.

Remoteness

Communication problems.

Weather (Mountains are cloud magnets)
Click to expand...

Looking at accident reports, the typical accident is the pilot pushing on when flight conditions has gone beyond VFR instead of turning around or not taking off in the first place. Poor visibility, low cloud base, and eventually ending up in a situation where the ground climbs faster then your plane. There have been two of those during the last 15 years just 40 km from here almost on the exact same spot. One norwegian pilot and one from germany. Those accidents would not have happened in a flat terrain, but they would also not have happened if the pilots had not pushed on dispite non VFR conditions.
 
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SvingenB said:
...the typical accident is the pilot pushing on when flight conditions has gone beyond VFR instead of turning around...
Click to expand...

Just to share something I learned...

My instructor emphasized to look behind from time to time (do some clearing turns) to keep an eye on weather. You don't want to go blindly forward, find that you can't get to your destination, and turn back only to find a wall of weather has decended behind you too :eek:!

For those who were interested in connecting with the same CFI I went up with, he said he'd be open to other RV pilots looking for training. PM me and I can send contact info.
 
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