T

ten4teg

Well Known Member
I just finished my RV8 and it had its first flight by an experienced RV driver. I took some lessons in a RV7, but I am not comfortable flying it and scared to fly mine. I am having a hard time getting good landings. I am used to flaring over the runway, but he teaches flying it to about a foot over the runway and then bleeding off the airspeed until it quits flying. He does this because of the abrupt stalls and does not want it to happen too high above the runway. Is this the way others fly RVs. I would like some other opinions. I did stall the RV7 and the stall is very rapid without any warning. Thanks, Tom
 
"Taking some lessons" is one thing, getting your TD endorsement from a qualified TD instructor is another. The landing in a TD is always dependent on the conditions at the time you land. Crosswinds demand a different landing procedure over winds that are straight down the runway. Sounds to me like you need additional TG training. Don't get frustrated. Get the training you need until you feel competent to fly your plane.
 
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Try feeding in a little power just as you flare, enough to fly the plane a foot or two above the runway for a reasonable distance like you are mowing grass with it. Then slowwllly come off the throttle and it will settle right onto the runway. If you give it too much throttle, just do a go-around. The RV is very difficult to land with all the power off until you get a feel for it. If you do the usual gradual power reduction technique and cut the throttle just before the flare, it can drop like a rock a few feet off the runway and do a pilot induced oscillation, or two, or three. Especially with a constant speed prop. Make sure you are in a stabilized approach and at the right speed on short final. Read Van's article on how to land the RV. Find a nicely manicured long grass strip to practice on if you can. The grass slows you down very quickly. Keep your feet lively on the rudders and expect it to dart one way or the other until you bleed off speed on the runway. Look for days with very little wind and no gusts.

If you botch things up, just hit the throttle, it will take right off again as you are going up in a bounce instead of bouncing hard. Just don't wait too long, assume you are going to hit the throttle and be glad if you don't have to.

I found this helped me get over being ground-shy with my (new to me) RV6 last fall.
 
Tom,

Are you on the SERV matronics mailing list?

There are a few good RV instructors on that list that live in NC. Try posting this on there as not all of them check out this forum.

Once you get the landings down, you will wonder what all the fuss was about.
 
Still bounce a few after 50 hrs

I have a couple of hundred hours in tail wheel airplanes, and the RV-8 humbles me some days. Last fall I worked hard on my landings and with just me in the plane, started squeaking them on by doing a sort-of wheel landing. I'd level off in the flare, let speed decay, then hold the tail slightly low while slowly descending. I would also add a little power if I felt the sink rate increase. I tried a lot of different flap settings and could make them all work, but 20 degrees seemed to be the most forgiving. I also worked at full stall landings a lit, but generally would touch the tailwheel first, and then the nose would come down pretty fast as lift was lost. I don't know if I ever really landed three point. It was either 2 then 1 or 1 then 2!

Our trip to Sun-N-Fun was great but with wife and baggage the handling changed enough so what was working for solo flight was no longer working well.

One suggestion that helped me is to look at the horizon/cowl intersections when you pull out on the runway for take off. Try to keep that view in mind on approach so you don't flare too high.
 
After an afternoon of T&G's in a -3 I can tell you adding a little power on flair (as preiviously mentioned) seemed to be the ticket to a smooth landing. What a great little plane Van's started with.

I've always been told a successful 3 point landing is 1 then 2. The tail touching .5 second before total stall. That's what my instructor wanted anyway.
 
My RV8 likes wheel landings.

I trim on final to where at 90 mph I have to hold a little back pressure on the stick.
Hold it just off the runway until the speed bleeds and it settles to the surface and then ease off the back pressure and you are 'landed'.

Wiggle your toes to wake up your feet on final and wiggle your left fingers to wake up your throttle hand in case you need go around.
Get some more dual until you are comfortable.
Nothing to be frightened about, if your landing becomes 'memorable' just apply power and try again.
 
Tom,
You are doing the right thing. When I was learning I listened at the coffee breaks and noon hours, to the stories of the " old guys". I learned a lot from their mistakes. Speak with as many RV pilots as you can. Complete your check-out in the -7.
Speak with your test pilot. Ask about your airplane. For example: Did it exhibit any pre-stall buffet? Do a weight and balance calculation with the test pilot's weight and the fuel load, when he did the stalls and landing. Compare that, to your weight. Will you need to adjust the cg with weights to have the airplane in the same part of the envelope, for you?
I'd also suggest riding in the back of a -8, during a stall series. How did the airplane react? Could you feel the stall coming on? What were the pilot's feet doing? A dance on the pedals or was it more like a displacement? All the cues will help.
My landings in lots easier airplanes to fly than RV's were dismal, until the instructor finally gave up and got out. My best landings just seem to happen,
when I think about them too much, I Arrive. My .02 cents.
H
 
Keep it straight first and foremost and less that 1 ft off the ground second.

Hi there,

I have a 6 which I am confident landing very smoothly either on 3 wheels or two. Here is my advice as someone who helped another friend learn to fly his RV safely.

This is what works for me.

Three pointing:
1.) Fly it slowly coming over the numbers. If you have too much speed you will likely balloon when you flare especially at sea level. Not sure where you are.

2.) KEEP it straight at all times even after a botched landing. This is your primary concern as if you keep it straight even after something goes wrong, you are unlikely to hurt either the plane or you. This means being very fast on your feet sometimes. As you come in to land, this should be your primary concern. If you cannot do correct cross wind landings in a taildragger, go practice in an easier taildragger until you can keep it straight even in a strong crosswind.

3.) Keep the nose down. Its easy to let the nose come up as you get close to the runway which is usually a good thing as you get closer to the runway, but don't let it come anywhere near level as you reduce your pitch. You want to avoid coming through level until the final flare at 1 ft.

4.) When you are confident you are about 1 ft off the ground or less, level out and wait for the sink (remember keep it straight!!). You should only be 'thinking' about moving the stick at this point and not physically making big changes.

5.) As it begins to drop from under you, ever so slightly ease back (again keeping it straight all the time!! You only need to think about it..)

6.) KEEP IT STRAIGHT as something touches. Ideally your mains will touch first with your tail low. Whatever happens keep it straight. If you ballon, you were too fast coming in, so go again. If you feel a swing left or right, you were not straight (which I hope you recovered!:).


Two Wheel Landings:

1.) Learn what level looks like!! Fly at altitude and learn what level looks like. Get very familiar with how this feels and looks out the window. This is key.

2.) Fly as mentioned above with a little more speed than a three pointer, maybe 3-4 kts more.

3.) Leave on a little power when you get to the runway until you figure this out!!

4.) KEEP IT STRAIGHT. Check your ailerons for level, centre line etc. Basically, insure that you have minimised drift.

5.) Keep the nose down all the way to the runway and flare at about 3 feet, leveling out at 1 ft above the ground. ITS CRITICAL to not flare through level at this point otherwise you are committed to a three pointer. Thats why no.1 helps. The small amount of power here helps also. Now just wait.

6.) This is all about feel and not so much about visual. If the plane bounces onto the runway, you were too high on the flare, so add power and go around. What you want is for it to grease the front wheels or wheel slowly. THE MOMENT something touches, you need to PUSH FORWARD ever so slightly to keep the tail up. Again, keep it straight.

7.) As the plane slows and the tail wants to come down, keep pushing forward to insure the tail drops at the slowest speed possible. When you get really good, you will use brakes to help with this and even add power combined with brakes to keep the tail off, but thats for another day.

Best of luck. This requires lots of practice to get it right. You need excellent eyesight and senses to master this also which is why a friend of mine does not want a taildragger. Remember KEEP IT STRAIGHT regardless of what happens as it will keep you and the airplane safe and the rest is about practice and feel.
 
I had exactly the same issue with my -8. Scared the be-jeepers out of me, until I realized that it likes wheel landings (20 or 30 hours later ;-). I always wheel land now. I fly final at 80kts, over the fence at 75, and carry a tiny bit of power into the flare. Just put your tail slightly low and let the speed bleed off. Works every time for me now.

I keep meaning to start practicing three pointers again,but never seem to get around to it.

Cheers
 
Funny how this topic comes up....;)

I hadn't flown the -6 since January, and with Louise and "Mikey" down in Houston for the weekend, we went up for some casual flying. As has been mentioned above, the -8 is definitely a wheel-lander - three pointers are not full-stall, so they are just a very special case of a wheel landing where the tailwheel happens to touch at the same time, and you have to careful, because you're still flying! The -6 is a much better three-point airplane, but I still find I prefer to wheel-land it (if it's not a really short runway) because of visibility and controllability. But it is a trickier wheel-lander - always takes me a few tries before I get the speed right and the feel back.

Anyway, after a couple of "Navy landings" yesterday, I took it out this morning and shot about 8 stop and goes to get the feel back. I never quit on a bad landing, but if I get three good ones in a row, I figure I've done enough practice for one day!

Paul
 
Ironflight said:
...The -6 is a much better three-point airplane, but I still find I prefer to wheel-land it (if it's not a really short runway) because of visibility and controllability. But it is a trickier wheel-lander - always takes me a few tries before I get the speed right and the feel back....
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I agree that the -6 is a three-point airplane. I think a major reason is the springy gear that isn't very forgiving of a firm arrival at good flying speed.

I also agree that the -8 is a natural wheel lander, just because so many people say so. What I don't know is why, since I have never flown one and I have never read anything where someone explained it. What happens in three pointers in an -8 that makes people not, so much, want to do it?
 
n5lp said:
I also agree that the -8 is a natural wheel lander, just because so many people say so. What I don't know is why, since I have never flown one and I have never read anything where someone explained it. What happens in three pointers in an -8 that makes people not, so much, want to do it?
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AS best i can tell Larry, the -6 is pretty much stalled in the three-point attitude, while the -8 is still several degrees below a stalled AOA when all three wheels are on the ground. that means that if you really wait to touch until the wing gives up, you touch down with the tailwheel first, and the mains about a foot in the air. the mains then drop in, and you get into a bit of a galloping bounce. Conversely, touching down with all three wheels first has you still flying, so any little bump gets you airborne again with minimal speed - again leading to a porpoise.

I haven't done any analysis, but my guess is that it is just due to the length of the airplane and the relative heights of the gear. A degree or two of deck angle can make a big difference.

The best way to describe my favorite landing in an -8 is a "tail low wheel landing" in which, just as you touch, you put just a smidgen of forward stick in to pin the airplane on the ground. Done correctly, the airplane settles straight and true, and as you bleed of speed, the tail comes down on it's own.

Paul
 
Three pointers:

Our wing quits flying quite abruptly at approximately 12 degrees AOA. That's comfortably higher than the 3 point attitude of the RV4, 6 or 8, so you shouldn't fear stalling the airplane over the runway as long as you're in the ballpark in terms of pitch attitude in the flare.

However, it is common to simply run the airplane out of speed when feeling for a good three point. The RV6 seems to bleed off speed faster than the 4 or 8 does in this regard, so maybe that's why it plops on more readily. Also a CS prop will brake the airplane down faster than one with a FP prop so you might find a touch of power will give you more time to feel for the touchdown if you have a CS prop up front.

My RV4 had the short gear and was definitely still flying when touching down in a three point. Wanting a bit more AOA at touchdown, I began experimenting with tail-first landings. And it worked - the 4 schmoozes on nicely if you get the tail on just fractionally before the mains.
 
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