roadrunner20

Well Known Member
I went to my local Sunoco station today for my 3xweekly supply of 93UL only to see a new sticker declaring the 10% ethanol blend. I've been using this station for my UL refills for the last 2 years.

I had a discussion with the station manager on this new declaration. She told me they ran the existing tank dry so they could fill it with the new blend. She also stated the entire state will be jumping on the 10% ethanol bandwagon.

I did a quick check of the other locals options.
I knew Hess had used ethanol. To my surprise, Shell too.

I'll be checking BP and Chevron tomorrow.

Is there any non-ethanol distributors out there?
 
Just when I thought I would start using MoGas I noticed those stickers showing.

It upsets me to no end that they keep increasing the price of gas but when they add ethanol AND rise the price it really gets me. More so since that stuff lowers the MPG and causes your fuel tank to rust, if you have a metal tank.
 
More mundane than aero engines but..

I am concerned about the ethanol too, but not for aero engines. I have a classic 2-stroke motorcycle (RZ500) that does not like variations in fuel. I have a close relationship with many GP replica 2-stroke owners and I know of 4 engines meltdowns over the last few years that have been attributed to fuel content. The first indications were fuels heavily laden with MTBE, which again will lean the mixture on a plain carb. We would get the bikes running "spot-on" at our shop (out in the "wilderness" of western NC where gas is gas and the sheep are scared ;)) and then ship the bikes to a big metro area that mandates a special petrol coctail and BOOM... Melted piston crowns, scored pistons and bores.

I imagine we will be able to compensate for the ethanol, but these bikes are finicky and becoming expensive to break. The Non-RV 2-stroke powered aviators will need to pay attention too. :eek:
 
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Georgia Also

Sorry to say but I saw the same sticker in Georgia too. Be careful out there!
 
sorry to say, but all gas has the alky in it, doesn't need to have a sticker. I found out by testing my gas here, yup, all stations with alky in the fuel. Oh and get this, the gas companies get a tax break for putting in the alky, that's why it's there. A little force feeding without us knowing it.
 
Ethanol mix S@#%$

It upsets me to no end that they keep increasing the price of gas but when they add ethanol AND rise the price it really gets me. More so since that stuff lowers the MPG.


I have a diesel truck so I don't pay much attention to the gasoline pumps. I did notice a while back that Hess and Sam's fuel pumps said MAY contain up to 10% ethanol. What the heck does that mean? Either it has ethanol or it doesn't. the MAY is just another marketing scam if you ask me. Something really has to be done about this stuff. I don't think we should be force fed a fuel we do not want. Ethanol is NOT a viable solution to the fuel situation.
 
I tested the Sunoco 93UL today.
The sticker said it may contain up to 10%.
It tested out to 5%.

The neighborhood Chevron station, said they hadn't moved to ethanol yet but will soon. They told me they would only offer up to 3%. According to them, this would satisfy the feds and qualify them for some sort of kickback/rebate...:eek:
 
fuel

Is there a way to get the ethanol back out of the fuel after we buy it? Any chemists out there? The diesel guys are brewing their own, we might have to as well.
Is it true that stuff is attracted to water?
 
Dennis, ethonal and methonal are water compatable. Gasoline & water are not. The problem is that when alcohol is in gasoline it can and will absorb moisture leaving it suspended in the fuel. Over a period of time it can build up significantly - condensation from humidity etc. Whereas without the alcohol, water being heavier than gas, drops to the bottom of the tank and of course is detectable.

The longer the fuel (with 10% ethanol) sits in the tank the more moisture it absorbs. The point here is you cann't leave it sit without it going sour on you. If you have no choice go ahead and use it but then replace it ASAP. It can also leave a varnish build up over time, plugging things up a bit. We have a very difficult time with the oxygenated fuels in boats where water is always present.
 
You don't have to take this lying down. There is momentum building to revisit the wisdom of the ethanol question and the more pressure you exert, the better. I emailed all the EAA chapter presidents in Oregon information about the Oregon ethanol requirement and 2 guys got very involved, many, many pilots wrote letters to the legislature. The result wasn't total victory; it was a small one, the best we could hope for at the time for various Oregon related reasons. But when the legislature held their experimental off year one month session in February, the lawmakers, including the ones who wrote the bill, admitted they screwed up and passed legislation allowing airports to sell ethanol free mogas. Not a good solution, but we have 2 airports now with mogas and one FBO is working to get it added to 2 more. It's a start.

With this an election year, make it an issue for the candidates. Issues are what they think are issues until you tell them there are other things on your mind. At minimum, push for having premium exempted and mid grade allowed at 5%. Combined, these only represent 16% of US gasoline sales.

Here are some talking points to use with the politicians:

? People are starving because of ethanol: Growing corn to make ethanol has driven up corn prices worldwide. In addition, corn demand for ethanol has diverted thousands of acres from wheat, soybean and other crops to corn, reducing production and driving up the prices of those crops. The cascade effect has caused shortages in feedstocks, increasing the price of vegetables and many other foods such as milk, chicken, beef, pork and so on. Food riots have occurred in Egypt, Cameroon, the Philippines, Burkina Faso, Ivory Coast, Mauritania and Senegal. Our use of ethanol to fuel vehicles has been called a ?crime against humanity? by a World Food Bank official. Half the rise in world corn demand since 2005 is due to diversion of the crop from food to fuel. This year, 34% of the US corn crop will be used for fuel while poor people starve.

? Ethanol is an environmental disaster: From the Amazon to the Gulf of Mexico, crop production for ethanol has had devastating impacts. Deforestation in the Amazon has accelerated in order to grow more crops for ethanol. In the Midwest, where we grow most of our corn, fertilizer use has increased to feed nutrient hungry corn. Fertilizer runoff has expanded the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. Ethanol production requires an abundance of water and water tables are lowering in many parts of the country. Lastly, nitrogen fertilizer is made from natural gas, a non-renewable resource.

? Ethanol may be increasing, not decreasing our oil dependence: No one really knows. Theory suggests 10% ethanol in gasoline will decrease mileage by 3%, since ethanol has only 67% as much energy per gallon as gasoline. Anecdotal reports suggest much greater mileage reductions, with some who regularly track their mileage claiming reductions of 20% or more. We have no scientific studies of mileage impacts. If ethanol decreases mileage by 10%, we have gained nothing with the mandate at great cost to our citizens and to the environment. The question of mileage impacts should have been studied before ethanol was mandated.

? Ethanol may require more energy to produce than it yields: The energy balance question has not yet been settled.

? We can?t grow our way to energy independence: Replacing just 10% of our fuels with biofuels would require 1/3 of all our cropland to be devoted to growing food for fuel.

? A transition to cellulosic ethanol is too far in the future to justify a mandate now: Estimates run 10 years or more before it may be practical. Costs, impacts and production potential are unknowns at this time.