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newamiga

Well Known Member
Guys,
I don't want to ignite a spirited discussion of the finer points of RV-12 vs S-19. Last week I checked both of them out in person at Sebring. I like both planes. One thing that really worried me about the RV-12 however is the means of actuating the flaperons. The removable wings requiring the teflon channel which interfaces to the controls inputs from the stick seem to me to be a little bit scary? Maybe just me.. I just looked at it at the show. I am curious from RV builders/owners what you think about this issue? Also the electrical contact interface that carries the power to the wing also seems like a potential point where corrosion could occur easily. Are these valid concerns?

Thanks
 
I'm not sure what your issue is with the teflon (UHMW?) guides for the flaperon actuators, but I was a bit unimpressed with the aluminum tabs-to-bolt-head wing electrical contacts--impressive for economy, but relying on it for reliably electrical contact.... You battle both oxidation problems and over-reliance on the springyness of the aluminum tabs. I would have preferred a solution the either used some genuine connectors (which makes wing installation/removal a bit more tedious) or some spring-loaded contacts.
 
Hey Carl - -

I'll say no to both. The torque tube is strong, and the piece it interfaces with on the flaperon is strong also. The other issue is minor. If corrosion, clean and put some grease on the contacts if concerned. If you can, find someone who is building, and has the wings built. Look at the piece in question. Look at the torque tube. Pretty strong pieces. The system is proven and the least of your worries. Pilot errors, and weather are much more likely to be a concern to all.

214.6 hours as of yesterday afternoon. 20 degrees - total snow cover.

John Bender
 
Thanks for the replies. I just looked at it quickly at Sebring. It was just a different approach from anything I have seen elsewhere in terms of the actuation. I am glad to hear positive feedback from someone flying one.
 
RV-12 or S-19?

The plastic flaperon connection is strong and of no concern. But I agree that the wing electrical connection could be better for two reasons: 1. Aluminum corrodes and 2. Rivets do not provide much tension, especially when plastic is sandwiched between metal parts. However, a poor electrical connection is no reason to reject the RV-12. A socket and plug can easily replace the aluminum contacts. If you do not plan to remove the wings, they can be hard wired with no contacts at all.
Consider that the S-19 kit was being offered for sale a long time before the RV-12. But how many S-19s are flying compared to RV-12s? Both companies have a good reputation. The RV-12 plans are excellent and clearly explain with both pictures and words how to accomplish each step. I suspect that it will take much longer to build a S-19 than a RV-12. The RV-12 has excellent visibility. I admit to being prejudiced favorably towards the RV-12, having built one. I suggest making the decision based on the big overall features that you are looking for in an aircraft kit, and do not worry about small details that can be changed.
Joe
 
Great points Joe.. I really appreciate the feedback. I am really torn between the two. The other issue that had me thinking twice was the standard avionics package to remain E-LSA on the 12. I was very pleasantly surprised by the mockup they were showing at the Van's booth at Sebring showing the dual Dynon Skyview to replace the 496/100/120 combo. I fly a dual Garmin G3X now and would really like that. The Skyview seems to be a close substitute and cheaper.

Thanks Carl
 
E-AB or E-LSA

Unless Randy has changed his mind, Rans will not provide Form 8130-15 that is required to register the plane as E-LSA. So the S-19 will have to be registered as E-AB. The RV-12 can be registered as either E-LSA or E-AB, your choice. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. No matter how either plane is registered, each can be flown by a sport pilot.
Joe
 
newamiga said:
I was very pleasantly surprised by the mockup they were showing at the Van's booth at Sebring showing the dual Dynon Skyview to replace the 496/100/120 combo. I fly a dual Garmin G3X now and would really like that. The Skyview seems to be a close substitute and cheaper.

Thanks Carl
Click to expand...

Carl,

Please post a photo of the Skyview mockup!!
 
FYI as of Sebring's Expo, Mitch Lock explained that Vans has yet to decide on the 2nd (optional) panel being a 7" or a 10" Dynon Skyview...so the (somewhat crude) panel sketch that was being exhibited with the -12 at Sebring was only a guestimate.

Also, keep in mind that with Skyview the A/P controls and the transponder, both mounted in the panel in the -12 kits to date, go away as those functions are controlled within the Skyview panel. The intercom controls were relocated, and that's about it as the panel is very simple to begin with. (I did notice a very open piece of real estate on the right side of the newly designed panel for a RAM mount and iPad. :D)

For newamiga, I dug around on the Web for some feedback on the build difficulty (or should I say 'challenges'...) of the S-19 vs. the RV-12 when comparing the choices. I personally think the S-19 has more ramp appeal (probably because it looks so much like our prior AA-5). I found two folks who had built (or helped build) one of each, and the both explained that the S-19 was a more time consuming build project, and with a greater degree of difficulty for the first-time builder. I think this becomes understandable when reviewing the RV-12 build plans. Don't forget that you can review representative plans segments by downloading the many revision pages that Vans generated as their initial -12 kits were being assembled by the first batch of 'pioneers'.

Jack
 
Hey Carl - -

As I recall, the S-19 was about $4 - 5k more with similar equipment. It is also heavier by I think 30#. I know someone who is building an S-19, and I can assure you there is lots more drilling, and marking lines etc on the S-19. I think the S-19 is a fine plane, but the above items swayed me to the RV-12.

Just my opinion. I am sure you'd be happy with either.

John Bender
214.6 hrs on RV-12.
 
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