[roadrunner20]

Here's the stats on my first full year flying.
Mostly local with not a lot of long cross country flights.

How does this compare to others?

My hangar is my highest fixed expense.
I just need to fly more hours to reduced my hourly expense.

One big surpirse is the low cost to maintain my RV.
Having the ability to do your condition inspection, I've only had to do a brake shoe change and oil changes for maintenance. Otherwise, it's been pretty much maintenance free.


Totals flights: 159
Total Landings: 180
2007 Tach Time Hours: 81
Hobbs time: 112

Total Fuel Used: 716 gals
100LL: 60 gals
93 AF : 656 gals


Fuel cost: $2232
Hangar: $3372
Misc: $ 250 (brake shoes, tires(not installed yet), oil changes...)
Insurance: $ 600 (liability only)

Total $6454

Based on 81 hours TachTime
$79.67/hr

Based on 112 hours Hobbs
$57.62/hr

 

[arffguy]

Thanks

Thank You for posting that. Wow, the hangar was half of the expense. So am I reading that right, that you use mostly 93 octane auto fuel? What source? What engine and carb/injection? And Happy New Year!

 

[Ron Lee]

93 Octane fuel

Seems like this was discussed recently and that 93 octane auto fuel is less when using avgas equivalent rating (verify). It would be interesting to see what the avgas equivalent octane is and what the minimum recommended fuel is.

Piston compression is relevant.

I suspect that a Cessna 172 is over $100/hr wet but have not checked in years.

 

[roadrunner20]

Thank You for posting that. Wow, the hangar was half of the expense. So am I reading that right, that you use mostly 93 octane auto fuel? What source? What engine and carb/injection? And Happy New Year!

I'm using Sunoco 93 autofuel.
I'm flying a Superior IO-360, forward induction.
Superior recommends any fuel combo, 100LL or other =>91.

 

[N131RV]

Engine reserve?

In my per hour costs, I always include the cost of the new engine when I reach TBO.

IE, IO-360-A1B6 overhaul, typically $20,000.

2000 hour TBO = $10/hour for engine reserve.

YMMV.

My costs:

Hangar (I built it) $0 per hour.
Insurance, $1800 per year.
Fuel, 10GPH typical
Oil change $75 every 50 hours.
Oil used 1 quart per 4 hours = $1 hour (or so)
I flew 290 hours this year.
$42 per hour fuel
$10 per hour engine reserve
$6 per hour insurance.

Miscellaneous maintenance, $1200 ($
$4 per hour

Approximate total:
42+10+6+4+1 - $63 per hour (or thereabouts)

Here's the stats on my first full year flying.
Mostly local with not a lot of long cross country flights.

How does this compare to others?

My hangar is my highest fixed expense.
I just need to fly more hours to reduced my hourly expense.

One big surpirse is the low cost to maintain my RV.
Having the ability to do your condition inspection, I've only had to do a brake shoe change and oil changes for maintenance. Otherwise, it's been pretty much maintenance free.


Totals flights: 159
Total Landings: 180
2007 Tach Time Hours: 81
Hobbs time: 112

Total Fuel Used: 716 gals
100LL: 60 gals
93 AF : 656 gals


Fuel cost: $2232
Hangar: $3372
Misc: $ 250 (brake shoes, tires(not installed yet), oil changes...)
Insurance: $ 600 (liability only)

Total $6454

Based on 81 hours TachTime
$79.67/hr

Based on 112 hours Hobbs
$57.62/hr

 

[WilburD2]

Exactly..

I suspect that a Cessna 172 is over $100/hr wet but have not checked in years.

Thats what the local school is charging for their 172.. Kinda has put a damper on my flying again..

 

[roadrunner20]

Thats what the local school is charging for their 172.. Kinda has put a damper on my flying again..

But it's not an RV!

 

[roadrunner20]

In my per hour costs, I always include the cost of the new engine when I reach TBO.

IE, IO-360-A1B6 overhaul, typically $20,000.

2000 hour TBO = $10/hour for engine reserve.

YMMV.

My costs:

Hangar (I built it) $0 per hour.
Insurance, $1800 per year.
Fuel, 10GPH typical
Oil change $75 every 50 hours.
Oil used 1 quart per 4 hours = $1 hour (or so)
I flew 290 hours this year.
$42 per hour fuel
$10 per hour engine reserve
$6 per hour insurance.

Miscellaneous maintenance, $1200 ($
$4 per hour

Approximate total:
42+10+6+4+1 - $63 per hour (or thereabouts)

Ok, that's great, we're in the same neighbohood.
I don't calculate engine reserve, have cheaper insurance, but have hangar expense, use auto fuel and don't fly enough.
Thanks for the info.

Are you really using 1 qt of oil for every 4 hours?

I don't have the exact data in front of me but figure I use 1 qt every 10-12 hours.

 

[N131RV]

Oil

Ok, that's great, we're in the same neighbohood.
I don't calculate engine reserve, have cheaper insurance, but have hangar expense, use auto fuel and don't fly enough.
Thanks for the info.

Are you really using 1 qt of oil for every 4 hours?

I don't have the exact data in front of me but figure I use 1 qt every 10-12 hours.

I had some "nuisance" oil leaks that took forever to track down and eliminate. While they were small, they do add up.

I had dropped to about 1 quart per 8 hour (or so).

 

[Paul Thomas]

If you truly want to know the cost of ownership, you have to add the opportunity cost of having all that money tied up; for me it's 10% which is the average return on stocks. That make owning and building more expensive.

Sometimes it's better not to know...

 

[roadrunner20]

If you truly want to know the cost of ownership, you have to add the opportunity cost of having all that money tied up; for me it's 10% which is the average return on stocks. That make owning and building more expensive.

Sometimes it's better not to know...

No offense Paul, but...
I guess I could invest the 55k I have in the RV and stay at home everynight & watch TV. At a 10% return on my investment, I would have plenty of money to do nothing in the future.

My RV is great therapy.
I wouldn't trade it for anything. It's just interesting to know the true cost of ownership.

 

[Paul Thomas]

None taken, there is a reason I'm building one

 

[roadrunner20]

None taken, there is a reason I'm building one

I guess at times, I think of my RV as an investment.
I see older pilots out there and if I ever lose my medical, I can opt for selling it at the going rate including my sweat equity.
So my 55k investment, can return a profit including all the fun along the way.


Best of luck with your RV. You're gonna love it!

 

[videobobk]

Our hours are almost identical, Hobbs 115, don't know the exact on the engine hours. We have an O-320 and use only 100 LL, mainly because of availability and have full coverage. Our numbers are considerably different because of that, and also because of WAY cheaper hangars.

Fuel $2680 (average abt $4.00/gal)
Ins 1900
Hangar 504
Misc 224

Total $5308

That gives a Hobbs average of $46.15, add in $10.00 for engine overhaul and I am still below the $60 that the local Tomahawk goes for. And, besides all the fun I'm having, this thing IS an investment!

Bob Kelly

 

[24Golf]

C172 Cost in Mississippi

We pay $135/hour plus around $5.00/hour fuel surcharge to lope allong at 108kts in a 400 hour C172 with G1000 panel. Can't wait to get the -9A in the air!

 

[rocketbob]

My philosophy is that its best not to know how much your airplane costs you. There's just no way to financially justify owning one. On that note my 2008 new year's resolution is to fly more!

Burning mogas is one way to lessen the cost and I really don't understand why folks would NOT run auto fuel in an RV. Mine runs just fine on 87 octane. Been doing it for several years now.

 

[roadrunner20]

Our hours are almost identical, Hobbs 115, don't know the exact on the engine hours. We have an O-320 and use only 100 LL, mainly because of availability and have full coverage. Our numbers are considerably different because of that, and also because of WAY cheaper hangars.

Fuel $2680 (average abt $4.00/gal)
Ins 1900
Hangar 504
Misc 224

Total $5308

That gives a Hobbs average of $46.15, add in $10.00 for engine overhaul and I am still below the $60 that the local Tomahawk goes for. And, besides all the fun I'm having, this thing IS an investment!

Bob Kelly

Wow! What a great price on hangars. We can't get a tiedown for that price.
Misc expenses are about the same.
These are very reliable airplanes. I have a friend with a Pulsar that's always having to do work. He can't more than 3 flights without tearing down to fix something.

Thanks Bob.

 

[TravisHamblen]

Hobbs time: 112
Total Fuel Used: 716 gals
100LL: 60 gals
93 AF : 656 gals
Fuel cost: $2232

Dan,

Being that I've known you a couple years I won't come right out and call you a liar, but COMON MAN. Either your lying or your trying to make me cry!! Your numbers translate to an average fuel burn of only 6.39 gals per hour. To make things even worse you are only paying an average of $3.117 gal???? Good GOD!!! I'm starting to hate you alot, I haven't averaged mine, but even LOP cruise I am still knocking down 9 gals per hour!! The ABSOLUTE best price I can get around here is $3.85/gal (which until now I thought was a great little secret)!!

Even with decent and idle time bringing down my average I don't think I'll come close to your very respectable numbers!! Of course, if I could just dial it back and not make every flight a speed run I might just do a little better.

On the other hand I am glad you have got to fly your RV so much, all the hard work is so worth it. And the best thing is that it is an accomplishment that nobody can ever take away from you!! I used to love flying my bought-already-flying RV, but the RV I built myself is 100 times more fun, its mine, no body knows it better than me! By the way, you are now famous, your post made the front page of the VAF!!! Keep in touch...

Travis
(I will race your for pink slips though)

 

[roadrunner20]

Dan,

Being that I've known you a couple years I won't come right out and call you a liar, but COMON MAN. Either your lying or your trying to make me cry!! Your numbers translate to an average fuel burn of only 6.39 gals per hour. To make things even worse you are only paying an average of $3.117 gal???? Good GOD!!! I'm starting to hate you alot, I haven't averaged mine, but even LOP cruise I am still knocking down 9 gals per hour!! The ABSOLUTE best price I can get around here is $3.85/gal (which until now I thought was a great little secret)!!

Even with decent and idle time bringing down my average I don't think I'll come close to your very respectable numbers!! Of course, if I could just dial it back and not make every flight a speed run I might just do a little better.

On the other hand I am glad you have got to fly your RV so much, all the hard work is so worth it. And the best thing is that it is an accomplishment that nobody can ever take away from you!! I used to love flying my bought-already-flying RV, but the RV I built myself is 100 times more fun, its mine, no body knows it better than me! By the way, you are now famous, your post made the front page of the VAF!!! Keep in touch...

Travis
(I will race your for pink slips though)

Hi Travis,
I only have an IO-360 to your IO-390.

I hope you're doing well. You've got to come down and visit, although it was really cold here last night at 28 degrees(the coldest in 2 years).
It must really be cold up there in MN.

If you take my 81 TachTime/716 gals = 8.84 gph. This may be more palable. BTW, with my 8.5:1 low comp pistons, I'm able to run 93 unleaded which has averaged here to about $3/gal. That of course just went up to $3.17 yesterday. I had so many short flights, my hobbs display is much higher than TT. Hey, it's been so much fun to fly, at times I would go fly for 10-15 mins.
I've also tracked the fuel I've used since day 1 and the average gph per TT is 8.22/gph.


Hope this makes you feel better.

 

[TravisHamblen]

Hi Travis,
I only have an IO-360 to your IO-390.

I hope you're doing well. You've got to come down and visit, although it was really cold here last night at 28 degrees(the coldest in 2 years).
It must really be cold up there in MN.

If you take my 81 TachTime/716 gals = 8.84 gph. This may be more palable. BTW, with my 8.5:1 low comp pistons, I'm able to run 93 unleaded which has averaged here to about $3/gal. That of course just went up to $3.17 yesterday. I had so many short flights, my hobbs display is much higher than TT. Hey, it's been so much fun to fly, at times I would go fly for 10-15 mins.
I've also tracked the fuel I've used since day 1 and the average gph per TT is 8.22/gph.


Hope this makes you feel better.

We are about to get a HEAT WAVE here. It may, just may, get up to 40f tomorrow!!! Of course you can only imagine how this cold weather helps your performance!! I will, after building the plane in Las Vegas and almost laughing at the thought of a heat muff, be adding a second one before next winter. With the normal outside clothing on I am okay at altitude with just one heat muff, but 2 will be very nice!!

So far, after 1.5 years up here, the cold hasn't got to me, and I think I will be here for at least 10+ years because it is VERY nice here and the family loves it here!!

As for short flights, I have had a couple times where I just went out around the pattern twice and brought her back in because I had to get going to work or something. Amazing what you'll do to get a couple minutes of flight time!

Travis

 

[Jerry Cochran]

Opportunity Cost

If you truly want to know the cost of ownership, you have to add the opportunity cost of having all that money tied up; for me it's 10% which is the average return on stocks. That make owning and building more expensive.

Sometimes it's better not to know...

Paul,

To make ourselves feel better, the real opportunity cost is only what you get from risk-free govt. T-Bills, minus tax, so right now about 3% at most. Still, you're giving up .03x $90k = $2700, so right there with hangar rent. If you don't figure it in, you're kidding yourself. Me? I just ignore it...

The so-called opportunity cost of stocks carries risk, a lot of it, so no fair using that, especially shorter term. Now, if you're a youngster and will keep your aircraft for 25 years or so, then might be fair to figure in the average return on stocks, maybe 7% after tax. But then factor in inflation and all bets are off unless the plane appreciates. But this stuff makes my head hurt and why I just ignore all that nonsense at my age...

Jerry

 

[Jerry Cochran]

X Factor

I just remembered this. Back when everyone was flying Cessnas/Pipers, a friend and I used to get out the napkin at our watering hole and calculate the cost of aircraft ownership including the "Opportunity Cost". We soon learned there was no way to justify it financially, so to offset the cost, we invented the "X-Factor"
which was the extreme amount of fun one had whilst flying. Somehow the value of the X-Factor always came out equal to or greater than all those pesky hangar rents, insurance, maintenance, etc.

That's how you do it, works every time.

Jerry

 

[TravisHamblen]

Paul,

To make ourselves feel better, the real opportunity cost is only what you get from risk-free govt. T-Bills, minus tax, so right now about 3% at most. Still, you're giving up .03x $90k = $2700, so right there with hangar rent. If you don't figure it in, you're kidding yourself. Me? I just ignore it...

The so-called opportunity cost of stocks carries risk, a lot of it, so no fair using that, especially shorter term. Now, if you're a youngster and will keep your aircraft for 25 years or so, then might be fair to figure in the average return on stocks, maybe 7% after tax. But then factor in inflation and all bets are off unless the plane appreciates. But this stuff makes my head hurt and why I just ignore all that nonsense at my age...

Jerry

The bottom line is that if you love flying as much as me, you WILL scrape together the money to make it happen. Don't get me wrong, I have my retirement all set and I retire in a little over 13 years (young retirement). I would never advise someone to put themselves in financial jeopardy in order to fly.

However, how much longer are you going to live? How many lives do you get? All I know is that when I am on my deathbed I will look back and remember all the awesome things I did and I will be totally satisfied. If I added up every cent I spent on aviation I could have bought a vacation home cash! But I don't care, all my memories and experiences are more valuable to me! There is no financial justification for owning an RV, unless you are Doug and become a gazillionair running a website promoting RVs and have one as a tool of your "trade."

Travis