prkaye

Well Known Member
On Saturday I'm planning to do my first Cross-Country with a passenger - my wife.
We're planning to depart Ottawa (Ontario, Canada) early Sat morning in a Diamond Katana, and fly 140NM SW to Peterborough Ontario to spend the day with my grandparents. Then back to Ottawa that evening. Quite excited as this will be the longest single-leg x-country I have flown as PIC, and also really hoping my wife likes the experience. I think she will really enjoy looking at the map and helping navigate (we have GPS, but I prefer to practice navigating the old-fashioned way).
The return trip will also be on my second night cross-country (did one solo for my night rating). Looking forward to that challenge as well.
 
Outstanding?

Very good Phil!
If she's involved and keeps up with your position, she'll enjoy it that much more. My wife loves the GPS and does the programming of waypoints and holds the maps when I'm busy with controllers. Have fun and if you can find the "quick start" instructions for the GPS, let her use them on the flight.

Enjoy,
 
Phil, beware night ops over open country.

I would recommend making sure that you have lots of lights below you (IE cities, highways, etc). Night operation over open (dark) country can be very disorientating for a new pilot and unless you are IFR rated would recommend against it.
Even after more then 200 hours my first night cross country over the open I experienced the "leans". I was sure that I was above the local mountains, but I could not see them and was very uncomfortable. I changed coarse so that I could fly over a river with a highway running next to it just so that I would have a correctly sense of where the ground was. It only cost me about 15 extra minutes to use this other route.

Kent
 
My first impression

Return home during daylight. Too many stress/pressure issues here. Be very quick to not go or stay a day or two if weather is an issue.
 
prkaye said:
(we have GPS, but I prefer to practice navigating the old-fashioned way).

I confess, I don't think much of the old fashioned way. Am looking forward to full synthetic 3D topography (IMC/IFR conditions). Airport layout maps with your aircraft's position supplied by GPS, and the full compliment of terrain and obstacle warnings. Most of this is available now.

I've been keeping track of too many flight into terrain accidents for too many years........I guess.

L.Adamson
 
Look out!

L.Adamson said:
I confess, I don't think much of the old fashioned way. Am looking forward to full synthetic 3D topography (IMC/IFR conditions). Airport layout maps with your aircraft's position supplied by GPS, and the full compliment of terrain and obstacle warnings. Most of this is available now.

I've been keeping track of too many flight into terrain accidents for too many years........I guess.

L.Adamson

Ok, but please do the rest of us a favor, look outside for traffic. I am in favor of technology but I have taken a few rides with Cirrus pilot friends of mine and noticed a severe lack of traffic scan. Although my RV8 has a GNS 430, I too like to navigate with a sectional chart looking at the view.

John Clark ATP, CFI
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Me too

John Clark said:
Although my RV8 has a GNS 430, I too like to navigate with a sectional chart looking at the view.

John Clark ATP, CFI
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

Me too!
I drew my lines to LAL on the WAC yesterday and also have Sectionals.......the way I learned, (back in the sixties), and still teach. Yup, nothing like orienting a map in the direction of flight and taking in the view. I consider my 496 a backup :D almost.

Pilotage, m'boy..... ;)

Havagoodtrip,
 
Thanks for your comments guys. The weather is looking great, and I'm really looking forward to it. My plan is probably to depart in twilight and arrive back in Ottawa after dark. I do want to get more practice at night.
The GPS will be switched-on and my destination programmed in, but I enjoy the challenge of trying to figure out which town is which, doing my time-checks by finding my checkpoints on the map, etc etc. This is stuff I want to get more practice at as well. Maybe I'll get some practice finding my position by tuning in VOR's as well. Eventually I want to get my commercial, instructor and IFR ratings (by eventually I mean after the RV is flying!), so I'm keen to get lots of practice!
 
I'd finish both wings first

"Phil Kaye
RV9A, left wing under construction "

That's the only part that worries me. I've flown a few hundred hours of cross-country, some at night, some in IMC, but all with two fully finished wings.

I'm not familiar with the RV-9, and perhaps one wing is sufficient. :D
 
Last year I had an electrical failure in the Archer. Lost the GPS and only had a vague idea where I was. I had become way to dependant on the GPS. This illustrated to me the importance of always having a sectional in my lap and navigating with both the GPS and the sectional.
 
Your First PAX and its your Wife!

I have experience here. I have flown quite a few first-time passengers, including my wife, and have a few pointers I've learned. I have been successful enough that my wife has since earned her license and we are into the fuselage of an RV-7A. In fact, I consulted her to put this response together.

The pre-flight briefing is absolutely the most crucial part. What will cause here anxiety is anything that is unexpected. During the briefing, talk to her about turbulence. Talk to her about what she can expect and feel on a cross-wind landing and takeoff (My wife had one passenger that she forgot to brief on cross-wind landings on a breezy day, and the passenger became scared on final as the plane was crabbing down).

Let her trail as you do your pre-flight, explaining what you are doing (in laymen's terms, please). Take the opportunity to point out the safety features built into aircraft these days (especially the redundancy).

Spend some time with her on the charts and your intended route, so that she can follow along and stay interested. Show her some basics about the GPS, especially the zoom in and out, so that she can verify the position on the charts and play a bit with the electronics.

Ask her if she would read the checklists (preflight, taxi, landing, etc.) as you perform them, to help you out. I am very capable of handling this myself, as a pilot, but it sure made it easier for me, and more interesting for my passengers, when they can feel involved in this manner.

Ask her to keep a pad of paper and pen and write certain things down (frequencies, altitudes, etc.). You may not do this now, but it is good practice for your instrument training and is a good practice for VFR. You have lots to worry about up there and it is easy to forget things. Especially if you get handed off to another center, can't make contact, and want to go back to the previous frequency to re-establish contact.

After each exchange on the radio, explain to here what actually is being said and why.

Explain the controls as you are flying, and what each does. Explain how they have to be coordinated. Then let her fly; first with just the stick while you manage the pedals. Then switch. Then let her manage both. She will most likely NOT do very well, but remember your first experiences. Point out only the good things. Tell her she did as well as you did your first time. Point out how difficult it is (it IS), so she doesn't feel like a dummy. Encourage her, telling her you hope to be doing a lot of flying with her and you would like her as a capable backup.

Don't overwhelm her. Feed her information over several flights, as she becomes more comfortable. By the time my wife started flying lessons, she was capable of flying the plane almost to the runway (pattern and all). I think she was capable of actually landing, should I have become incapcitated. However, this took many flights and a lot of explanation as to what is going on. If you feed it to her too fast, she will become discouraged. Even my wife, at times, said "And you think this is FUN?????" (regarding the landing process). It is a busy time in the pattern and lots of multitasking.

Regarding flying at night, I absolutely love it, and so does my wife. It is much more surreal and relaxing. However, don't under-estimate the additional risks involved in flying at night. Our son goes to college at a school that is 3.5 hours driving, or 1.5 hours flying. We go up there every month, and usually fly back at night. This is in northern Minnesota, so the country is pretty barren. For an additional measure of safety, we fly I-35, at least from Duluth to Minneapolis, before heading directly home. This gives us more lights to work by and a potential landing strip in case of engine problems. The alternative, if you have airports that are close to one another, is to fly from airport to airport, at a higher altitude, so that you have options. Flying is all about leaving yourself options and preparing for the worst (while hoping the worst never happens). The few extra minutes reduces (does not eliminate) the inherent risks. Be honest with your wife about the beauty of night flying, but also about the inherent risks (without scaring her).

Buy her the book entitled, The Right Seat, a book for pilot's companions, by Avram Goldstein. Included is a chapter on what to do in case the pilot is incapacitated. In fact, it is worth reading yourself, as it will make you aware of people's "fears" and allow you to put your own checklist together for breifing the other "first-timers" that you take flying in the future.

Last advice. Ask her how much she wants to be involved. Don't try to push more on her than she wants to do, regardless of the reason. Understand that she will be going through a new experience also and that there will be a lot of different feelings she will be experiencing. She will naturally be a bit apprehensive and will most likely be thinking about her trust in you as a pilot. It will be a time to stay in touch with your feminine side, and tuck the male ego away (Come on, all us male pilots have the egos!!!!! My wife says the air is thick of testosterone at our flying club meetings!)

Hope I didn't get too preachy. This is important and you are right to ask for advice. I've heard too many stories of people that are uncomfortable, simply because it was not what they expected, many times because they did not get an adequate briefing.

Good luck. And let us know how it goes!
 
Thanks!

Great post, thanks Macrafic.
Actually my wife has been up with me twice previously, but both of these were just little sight-seeing 1-hour flights around the city and the practice area. I did involve her in the pre-flight briefing, and when we were in the practice area at 3,000 feet I let her take the controls and get the feel for flying. She caught-on very quickly, so much so that she was able to hold altitude and heading perfectly and I let her do most of the flight back to the airport, and only took over when we were getting ready to enter the pattern.
I've taken a few other passengers up before, and for first-time passengers I always try to make it an educational experience by having them follow me during the walk-around, explaining everything out-loud, and doing all-my check-lists out-loud. I also do my instrument checks out-loud, my pre-take-off briefing out-loud, and my "airspeed alive", and "positive rate of climb" calls out-loud. First-time passengers seem to enjoy hearing all the things that the pilot has to run-through for a flight.

This will be my wife's first cross-country in a small plane, and my first cross-country with a passenger with me (alll previous cross-countries were solo, or with an instructor). My wife loves maps, and navigating, so I'm sure she will really enjoy this aspect. She also loves going places, and since I hate long car rides, this is a great solution. I get to build-time, and she gets to do more of those weekend trips she loves :)

The weather here is looking absolutely gorgeous. Temperatures up around 20 degrees celcius, and forecast for continuing completely clear blue skies. After the last couple of weeks of overcast rain and snow, I'm very happy it has improved just in time for our trip. Can you tell I'm *very* excited about my first flight as PIC to actually go somewhere with a purpose (to visit family) ??
 
The weather here is looking absolutely gorgeous. Temperatures up around 20 degrees celcius, and forecast for continuing completely clear blue skies. After the last couple of weeks of overcast rain and snow, I'm very happy it has improved just in time for our trip. Can you tell I'm *very* excited about my first flight as PIC to actually go somewhere with a purpose (to visit family) ??

Your enthusiasm for this series of "firsts" is understandable and has been experienced by all pilots. I hope your wife shares your love of flight and that you both create memories that you will treasure.

But man.......I wish you weren't planning to fly that second leg at night......... :(
 
night

There seems to be a lot of concern over the night portion, and this surprises me. I've done about 5 or 6 hours at night, including two cross-countries (one dual one solo) before, and haven't found it to be terribly treacherous. The only aspect that does concern me is the trouble with finding options for a forced landing.
But in good weather, with GPS and using flight-following, it doesn't strike me as an irresponsible or dangerous risk to do a VFR flight early in the evening (just after sundown). Sun sets at 2000h. I plan to be on the ground by 2130h. The folks who operate the flight school I trained at and rent from also don't seem concerned.
 
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prkaye said:
The only aspect that does concern me is the trouble with finding options for a forced landing.

That seems like a biggy to me and is the reason why I'm building without lights.
 
John Clark said:
Ok, but please do the rest of us a favor, look outside for traffic. I am in favor of technology but I have taken a few rides with Cirrus pilot friends of mine and noticed a severe lack of traffic scan. Although my RV8 has a GNS 430, I too like to navigate with a sectional chart looking at the view.

My reality. GPS/ 2 axis - auto-pilot/sectional

More time than ever, to scan for traffic, rising "mountains" ; and knowing exactly where you are on the sectional.

With the A/P, there is even more time to notice distant landmarks, cities, and lakes, to double check on the sectional for more detailed info.

And..............have a GPS with battery backup, should a power failure occur. Perhaps two GPS's.

L.Adamson
 
Hey Phil.
Good for you. Have a great flight, hope the weather is clear and the experience great. I am a ways behind you...but plugging away. First night x country is at least 3-4 months. Keep it safe.
 
The Trip!

Well the trip was great. Weather couldn't have been better. There was a privately owned amphib plane that left for Peterborough at the same time I did. I encountered him a few times along the way (he seemed not to be following a striaght track). I got some practice plotting my position with two VOR stations, which was fun. We had no problems navigating by landmarks (lakes mostly) so barely even looked at the GPS, except when we got very close. When we departed a couple of those tiny little "trike" ultralights took off in front of us - they were fun to watch. They had a tiny maple syrup festival on in Millbrook (near Peterborough) that day. At the bookstore we picked up a cookbook recipes using maple syrup :)

Oh, and the return flight was the 100th flight entered in my pilot logbook (not inluding my separate glider logbook) ! Only about 90 hours to go until I have enough for my CPL :)

See photos at my website: http://www.c-func.com/blog.html

Sometimes I am amazed at how some private pilots still fly regularly but seem to have forgotten much of their training, and do things that would certainly cause them to fail a flight-test. As we approached Peterborough, I followed the standard procedure of descending on the upwind side of the runway, crossing over mid-field at circuit height and joining the left downwind. Broadcasting my intentions on the radio the whole time, of course. This is exactly the procedure outlined in the Canadian "Aeronautical Information Manual", in "From the Ground Up", the "Flight Training Manual", and probably just about every other such publication. The other owner/pilot who flew the amphib from Ottawa did a completely unorthodox approach. He descended on the circuit (pattern) side, flying parallel but opposite to the downwind leg! Then he executed a 180 degree turn (all on the downwind side) to turn into the circuit. As we approached the airport, he (being the more experienced pilot, of course) suggested that I follow him in. I declined, and said that I was going to descend on the upwind side and cross over to join the downwind. I wonder if he even realized that what he was doing was totally incorrect. Anyway, I found this experience almost shocking, but I've seen licensed pilots do things like this before. Once as a student pilot I was (solo) approaching Carp, and was on short-final when a private aircraft taxied right out onto the active runway, without looking to the approach path, and without listening or communicating on the radio!! I had been broadcasting my position in the circuit the whole way, including my turn to final, and a couple of calls on short final when I saw this guy begin to taxi out. I was forced to do a go-around. Unbelievable. Perhaps periodic re-testing should be mandatory for all private pilots.
 
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Glad it went well.

Its a funny thing. Down in Windsor we have a control tower, but a pretty quiet airport and for fun I listen on my a6 a fair bit. Today the tower had to yell 3 times to a pilot starting with "GEK, are you sure you want to go that way?" to "GEK STOP!". "Do not move. GEK, would you like to turn around and take off into the wind?, 25 is the active and the runway you are to use!" Ha.

A few days ago a student pilot decided to do his descend from from 3000 to circuit height coming in from the county right through the climb out path of the active runway. The instructor and student taking off didnt even see him until he buzzed overthem by maybe 200 feet. Nice

Like they say, its a license to keep learning. Be safe and keep the scan.
 
Sometimes you just can't resist!

Rick:

Thanks for the cheap shot opportunity. It was easy and just too tasty to resist.

I think you are on the right track with retesting, but in the States, the FAA is more interested in reducing the training needed to get into the air(LSA) and trying to keep industry happy, than making it safe and practical for the average Joe to get PPL.

IMHO, a good fix would be to start with a national drivers license, which would be used for qualifying as a class 3 medical for day/PPL. Lose your license for DUI, bad health or too many violations, lose the privilege to fly. Same medical would work for IFR/MEL/Night VFR, with an IFR required for night VFR. BFR would be replaced with a structured, mandatory check ride/ground school every 12 months. This check up would not be a pass-fail, but would require additional training if the score was not satisfactory.

Just my idea, but I think it?s better than the new LSA racket that is starting. We saw a LSA Sport Cub ant SNF for nearly $120,000. I'm sorry, but that?s not affordable and it is a direct result of the misguided lobbying efforts of the alphabet soup guys with lips on the posterior of the FAA.

Recurrent training is important and the FAA Wings program was also not the answer. Your local, grassroots EAA chapter, bringing in knowledgeable guests and instructors is the best start. Again, IMHO, LSA for new pilots is a short cut to the sky, is a compromise/sellout and has failed to address the needs of everyone, except the aviation industry.

Ideas are a direct result of our experiences. These are just mine and I welcome all ideas, except snake oil engines. The future of private, general aviation depends on young people, affordability for the average Joe and the limitation of the expansion of government bureaucracy. EAA does a good job with Young Eagles. No one has effectively addressed the cost of affordable, easily accessible, aircraft rental/ownership. With the Repulicrats running the government, thinking that $100,000,000 is chump change while allowing Vietnam II to continue, hoping the FAA will reduce the number of pages in the rulebook is akin to the IRS calling me a customer!

Is all lost, I do not think so, but our wait for someone else to comment/crusade on the issues that face the private/experimental/general aviation is like saying the fire is out after the barn is nothing but a smoldering pile of cinders. Don't write/call your elected officials, fire them. Keep firing them until they get the message that the money they spend is ours, they work for us and that limited government is the best government. Do the same with the alphabet guys. They need to visit us, not wait for us to come to Wisconsin or Maryland. The need to come to Abilene, TX and Bartow, FL and Louisville, GA and Bloomington, IL, not Las Vegas or Atlantic City.

Sorry for the rant, but the rules for training and preservation in general aviation need to be changed along with the illusion that the local small airport is a club for rich white guys.

FWIW.