C

cattflight

Well Known Member
Hey gang,
As a future RV Builder, and having followed discussions on another board regarding a high speed taxi test of an Exerimental in Idaho gone terribly awry, (story here: http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-sep2409-nampa_airport_crash.1b05d66e5.html) I was wondering:

When it came time for your ship's first flight, did you hire a test pilot or fly it yourself? What was your philosophy behind the decision and, in hindsight, would you do it the same if to do it over again?

And for those of you yet to perform your first flight, which way are you thinking you'll go and why?

I know the circumstances of the aforementioned unfortunate accident are remarkably different than the typical RV first flight - for more reasons than we can list here - but it made me wonder why some decide to perform their own flight tests. I suspect the answers will be as diverse as the Builders.

Thanks!
 
do a search and you'll find this topic has been discussed at length in other threads. Lots of high-time guys say it's foolish for a low-time pilot to do their own first flight. Some low-time pilots will say they've done it without incident. Not sure how many low-time pilots are unable to post their opinions because their maiden-flight met with disaster, but I doubt it's a significant number.
I'd be interested in getting some stats on this... how many pilots with under 200 hours did their own first flight. How many first-flight accidents in RVs have there been, and of these how many were by low-time pilots?
 
Easy decision for me ...

Sometimes it's a pretty easy decision. My thought process went something like this:

1) I hadn't flown anything in over a decade while building; my test pilot flies for a living

2) The majority of my flight experience was in one airplane; my test pilot had owned and flown many types of aircraft

3) I put the plane together as a totally new learning experience, having never built anything remotely as challenging; my test pilot has years of experience with things mechanical and had already built an RV-8

4) My first flight would have no frame of reference; my test pilot has over 1,000 hours on his RV-8, so he knows what "normal" is for an RV-8

5) Unbeknownst to me, the first flight had no EFIS information, inaccurate altitude info and the pitch trim was reversed -- I would've likely panicked, or at least have abandoned the flight; my test pilot knew that the engine was running strong and knew that it would fly fine without airspeed/altitude accuracy

6) My test pilot flies for food. :D

Once we fixed the first-flight glitches, he made the second flight and expanded the envelope a bit more. By the time I got current again and got my tailwheel endorsement, I was able to make MY first flight in Smokey without having to worry if it would track straight, if it would fly solidly or if the wings would fall off. THAT, my friends, is PRICELESS.

That's just my take on your question. Hope it helps. I'm glad I had a friend with his qualifications willing to make those first two flights.
 
FWIW, I did not do the first flight on my RV-6.

And I'd do it again that way.

Now I know what they are supposed to feel like, but back then I didn't, and think it was a wise move for me.

b,
dr
 
My decision was more emotional than practical. I am a very low time pilot. When I first flew my RV, I had around 150 hours of which 25 were tailwheel. My thinking was that I would have a very difficult time living with myself if the airplane that I built ended up hurting another pilot who was on my payroll. I know that a hired gun assumes the risk, but that would not help how I would feel about a tragic outcome. Once this decision was made, the key was to get my skills up to snuff.
Every hour that I spent renting towards the end of the project was spent doing simulated engine out landings and what-ifs. Right before first flight, I took 10 hours of transition training in a RV-6 and did over 60 landings over a period of four days. Two of those days were in spring weather with horrible cross winds and so forth...

For the first flight, I wore nomex, a 'chute and a helmet. The flight was a great experience.

Now for the not so good news...
I am not skillful enough at the controls to fly the exact profiles required for accurate test flying. I am having a great time trying, though. My operating manual will in a constant state of improving and revision as my skills grow and I am able to hold her in more precise flight and extract meaningful results.
I also have to SLOWLY move the CG aft as I expand my test flying. This is probably not such a big deal to the side-by-side drivers, but it makes a BIG difference with the tandems. A more experienced pilot could run through the CG range much more efficiently than I am able to...the great thing is that there is no big rush and I can take as long as I need!
 
my way

I can't imagine to let fly my 8 to another pilot, I think that nobody else knows my RV better that me. Btw I did other test flight, I've a lot of taildraggers in my 800 hours. I'll let you know :)
 
In 1998 when my RV-6 was completed, I had several thousand flight hours but only 10 or so in RV's and only 20 hours in the past year. I choose to have a very experienced RV pilot make my first flight. He circled the airport for 30 minutes. After a complete going over, I made the first official flight ;)
Zip forward 11 years and 800+ hours later in the RV-6, the decision to make
the first flight in my RV-8A was very easy.
 
I did my own first flight

I had zero time in an RV so I went to Oregon and got a transition session with Mike Seager. I completed my RV-6A not too long afterward and made the first flight from Chino, California. I had around 4,500 hours of flight time then and the flight was no challenge at all.

I have never done a high speed taxi test and I think the practice envites problems.

I test ran the engine, taxied the plane and checked for defects prior to the flight.

The test flight was one trip around the pattern and a full stop landing followed by cowl removal and inspection.

I would do it exactly the same way again.

Bob Axsom
 
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Yes I would take the first flight again.

YES, I would be the test pilot for first flight again. Note that it was a lot of work getting ready!!!!:)

Here are some comments I agree with.
Would you take an RV up the altitude, kill the engine and dead stick it? If not, you are not ready for the first flight.

While building, each part was built using these thoughts...
Can you trust your life with what you have done?
I rebuilt many parts that failed this test. I made many trips to re-check how this really works?
There were too many embarrassing errors on the ground. There were many calls to vendors for what was a simple confusion on my part.

Train like your life depended on it!
Our EAA chapter has people who trained me and helped me plan my test phase of the project. I would highly recommend using any resources you can find to prepare. They let me fly their planes, they taught me enough that all were satisfied I was ready. I was told that there people who they would not recommend do their first flight. If they tell you are not ready listen. I asked that they be honest and stop me if they felt otherwise. I would comply (or train more)

I did not want to endanger anyone else with my project. The same rule applies when I have another sole on board.

This test question always applies... Would this be stupid? If yes stop and find a way to change the answer before proceeding further.
 
I did my first flight, and would do it again. My decision process went like this:

While fairly low time (about 800 hours,) I have flown many type of aircraft, including H/P, sailplanes and U/L's.

I have had several emergencies, including engine out, and handled them well, nothing bent. I do not panic and can maintain concentration until everything quits moving. Then I get real shaky!

I had flown a lot of hours in a plane with a similar field of view, and I had completed transition training in an RV with no difficulty only a week before.

I was pretty sure of the airplane, although that is always iffy. I was very familiar with the field and it was a perfect location (5000' with open fields around.)

There was no one around I would have trusted more than myself, although I could have hired someone from some place distant.

My choice, not that I recommend it to everyone. I think knowing that I could handle a real emergency was what finalized the decision. Had I never stared at a stationary prop through a windscreen, I don't know if I would have done it.

Bob Kelly
 
My first plane, a RV4, had it's first flight in 1995. At the time I had lots of tail dragger time but I was uncomfortable with a first flight situation and thus had a high time friend do the honours for me. Since then I have accumulated lots of RV and Rocket time and I have done 10 first flight myself. The most exciting first flight of all of them, and the most memorable, was the one that I let someone else do. It was an amazing experience to watch what had been a pile of aluminium leave the ground and circle the airport, knowing that it was in good capable hands. I still have a picture of that RV grin above my desk.
 
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Wow, you're going to get a lot of variation in answers on this one!

I'm a relatively low-time pilot...6 months ago when I did my first flight I had about 380 hours. I did 3 engine runs and lots and lots of inspections making sure everything was right before flying. I had flown (right seat) on 3 different occasions very briefly in 2 RV-6's and one RV-7, which gave me a good idea of the handling. I got 3 hours of "familiarization" training in a -10 for insurance purposes (which I don't think is close to what the -7A flies like, but that's what the insurance company wanted).

That said, I'm on the fence of whether I "should have" done it. I am proud of the fact and thrilled that I flew my airplane first. I was fortunate that nothing major went wrong during that first hour.

BUT, as I flew more of my 40 hours off I realized that I should have been even more prepared. As others have pointed to in this thread, if something really bad happened, would I have been able to handle it correctly and get down safely? I don't know for sure about that. I had an ex-military test pilot fly the aerobatics and some of the high G maneuvers in my airplane and I can tell you that his envelope for my airplane is MUCH bigger than mine. I know that a professional test pilot will handle emergency situations correctly. The ambiguity in me knowing for sure whether I would have handled them correctly is why I'm on the fence.

Now, looking back I don't think I would have done it again. But with a little more training, then I can say "yes, I would". The line is pretty fuzzy and I think if I ever built another one I would do it again. I just don't think I was 100% ready for my last one (even though I thought I was!).
 
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I did my first flight...

.. after 300 hours TT with 30 TW - mainly C172 and PA12 but including C152, RAF Bulldog (a long time ago but a great beginning!) and just over an hour dual with Mike Seagar in the RV7.

I completed a biannual and then rehearsed the first flight manoeuver by manoeuver with my instructor in a C172 during which time we ran through generic emergency procedures and picked out potential landing spots around the airfield. I then did some dual in his tail wheeled PA20 Pacer.

The RV was thoroughly inspected and the first flight performed on a perfectly calm summer evening. I took off over flat fields, climbed directly above the airport, did a couple of stalls to determine my indicated approach speed and returned to make a pretty good three point landing. I wouldn't have missed it for the world. I took it seriously and prepared as best as I could but I think that I was at the just adequate end of prudent on the necessary experience scale. I would do it again.

Jim Sharkey
Rv6 - Phase 1
 
cnm.jpg

I thought quite a bit about the first flight but never really considered having someone else do it.

I had around 2,000 hours in a fairly wide variety of light airplanes and gliders. I took advantage of Mike Seager being in Fort Worth to get 1 hour in an RV-6 about 21 months before my first flight. That dual time showed me that this airplane is really straightforward compared to the PA-20 I was flying at the time. I guess Mike agreed because he seemed satisfied with my competence at the end of the hour. I wasn't worried about the time gap because I was flying the PA-20 regularly and strangely enough I think that airplane is good preparation for the RV. It is quicker handling on the ground and has a similar power off sink rate. It is not as fast but I had plenty of time in airplanes like the Cessna 210 that are in the performance range of an RV. I also had time in several of the two seat Grummans that have responsive handling and sink rates similar to an RV.

I was completely comfortable with the idea of landing the RV with a dead engine (I have since done that as an exercise). Most of the thought about the first flight was how to deal with a low altitude engine out situation. My airport was very well suited to this.

I waited until the wind favored runway 14L. This insured that I would always be in range of a runway, no matter when the engine might quit. Shortly after takeoff I started a gentle right turn that put me into position to land on runway 21 as soon as I was too high for the departure runway. After I was too high for 21 I could land on any runway. The great climb performance really made it easy to always be in glide distance of a runway.

Yep, be comfortable with the idea of an engine out landing and don't do any high-speed taxi tests.
 
I did

After six and half years of building there was no way I was going to let someone else be the first to fly my airplane. Frankly, the thought of having someone else do my first flight never seriously crossed my mind. It was more a matter of being sure I was ready to do it.

Part of my rationale was that if something did go terribly wrong and the pilot was hurt or killed, I would never forgive myself for having asked someone else to fly the airplane. If anyone was going to get hurt, it was going to be me.

My other rationale was that this was my project, my dream, and the only opportunity I'd ever have to do something like this first.

Having built the airplane, I was very confident that the structure was solid and would fly well. As far as my flying skills were concerned, I had not flown an airplane in the six plus years of building. My total time was about 600 hours of which 200 were tail wheel.

So in the last few months of the build, I took a BFR in a Decathlon to get my license current and see if I could remember how to fly a tail wheel airplane. After about 4 hours of that I felt pretty good. I then took a couple of flights with an RV-6 transition teacher, and while that was a bit more challenging, I thought I could handle the airplane. Lastly, a friend let me take the front seat of his RV-8 (my first time in an -8). We spent an hour on landings and I asked him to be honest, did he think I could fly the plane. He said no problem.

So away I went on my first flight. Too busy to be nervous.



The flight had a few challenges such as a malfunctioning airspeed indicator (my fault, forgot to tighten the nut on the pitot line) and a prop governor that didn't govern so I had to reduce the power quite a bit to get the prop to drop out of the red. But the airplane flew fine, felt fine and after 30 minutes the landing was probably my best ever. So now 340+ hours later, I'm still grinning. And should I ever build another airplane, I'll be making the first flight.



Do what makes you feel comfortable. After all this is not a contest, and it's supposed to be fun. For me, that first flight was a MasterCard moment -- priceless.

Chris
 
When I flew my RV6A's first flight, last year; it was the first time I had flown solo in 14 years. It took twelve years to build it, and I figured I could wait a bit longer to do the first flight, if needed. I was determined to test fly it myself. The test flight was two months after the DAR inspection.

The first flight did include one "taxi test", that was a good 10 knots below known flying speeds of RV6's. The whole idea was to check how well the landing gear tracked down the runway. It was fine, so I taxied back around and took to the sky.

Of course that 14 years wasn't without flying. I had been flying 172's, Diamond DA40's, two different RV9A's, and some short time in two different 6A's. There was just another pilot always along, which is why it wasn't solo. To get up to speed, I spent a lot of pattern time in the 9A within two months of the first test flight.

It's now a year later, and 107.1 hours on the 6A Hobbs. All but about 4 hours is mine.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
While my RV-8 is still a good way from the point when it is ready for flying, I plan on doing all of the test flying, and I right off-hand I can think of few reasons why this is so:

First, I would not ask anyone else to do something that I was not willing to do myself.
Second, if someone did test fly my plane and they got hurt or killed, then I would feel absolutely terrible.
Third, since I built the plane, I know it better than anyone else, therefore I think that gives me a decided safety advantage.
Fourth, I always wanted to be a test pilot, and I am not about to pass up what may well be my only chance at the job.

However, since getting involved in flying I have made an effort to get my affairs in order; insurance, savings, property, and so on. Therefore, I would suggest the same to any other pilot regardless of their test pilot status.
 
What did you expect from a bunch of type "A"..

...personalities??:)

Seriously folks....it ain't about flying the airplane so much but as Jamie pointed out....things do go wrong and the questions are:

A) What do I do if the engine quits at 100'....or maybe 500'?
B) What do I do if there's a fire and flames are coming in the cockpit? (BTW, this has happened in an RV-8 and the guy jumped out!)
C) What if acrid blue and black smoke starts coming into the cockpit?
...and on and on. These things have all happened to others and IF you can honestly accept that you'd perform exactly correctly and have the discipline and ability to do so, then go ahead. Becoming a test pilot with no test pilot training doesn't appeal to me much.

Regards,
 
Test pilot

I agree totally with Pierre.
BTW, Pierre gave me transition training as well as my test pilot. Great guy, and very good instructor.
I was fortunate to have a very close friend, Air Force Major Jan Scearce, Ret. at my disposal. He has many thousands of hours, and is a civilian flight instructor. He had never flown an RV, but has logged time in over 40 different aircraft. Jan offered up his services as my test pilot.
Long story short, I would be a total DA to pass on that one. Jan is much more capable of assessing the aircraft than I. He also knows how to use a parachute!
I am currently building another RV, and now you may ask if I will test fly the next one. I have gained proficency in the aircraft type, and have practiced all of the maneuvers and emergency procedures many times. I feel totally confident in my ability to assess and react to any situation that may arise.
But I will let Maj. Scearce do the test flight if he sees to do so.
Why?
Simply because he is the most qualified man for the job.
Bottom line...If you have at your disposal a more qualified pilot than yourself to test your aircraft, you should not let anything stand in the way of making it happen.

My 2 cents,
Chris
 
You and only you must decide...

There is only one first flight. I was going to be the one to do it on the airplane I built. I was not going to allow anyone else to do it. I considered it a right of passage after witnessing many "builder flown" first flights.
It was one of the best experiences of my life.

It also could have been one of the worst experiences, maybe even my last experience, had something gone wrong.

I considered myself "qualified", however, only so much as I defined it, by no other measure. Even an experienced test pilot had a first flight and a first test flight. You can always find someone more experienced or more qualified. In the end, you must make the decision, and only you.
 
I have to say..

That the greatest thrill of my aviation life was the first flight of my RV-6a. However, fellow builder and myself decided we needed a plane whilst building so bought a -6a and flew it until mine was ready. We each had 150 or so hours in it and I was very current.

After fussing around and double checking everything thrice, I taxied out to the runway, ran her up and departed (2S6). Climbed to 3500' above the airport, checking all the temps etc, found no problems. Took her on up to 5000 did a couple stalls to check speed and handling then landed.

Everything cool and guess what? She flew just like an RV and the "grin" ensued.

Wouldn't change it for the world...

Only regret? No video...

Jerry
 
Crossbow said:
Third, since I built the plane, I know it better than anyone else, therefore I think that gives me a decided safety advantage.
Click to expand...

This is a common but erroneous thought. Building a plane has nothing to do with flying it safely. I have no idea of your flying experience or currency level, and you may be perfectly qualified to test fly your airplane, but the above line of thinking simply isn't true.

Who makes the test flights on new and rebuilt aircraft for the big boys - the people who built the planes, or trained, experienced professional pilots?
 
Depends on Where You Live Also

Not all of us live near thriving RV or even EAB communities like some of you do in parts of CA, TX and FL so it can be hard to find a tame test pilot (why does Top Gear's Stig come to mind? :) ) willing and able to do the first flight.
Jim Sharkey
 
Actually Ryan, you are not being totally fair to Crossbow. Since there is no such thing as a "standard" RV panel, I think the guy who built the panel and sat in front of it for dozens of hours playing with everything has a decided advantage over another pilot. Building an airplane may not give a builder any advantage as to the handling of that airplane, but building the panel certainly does. It is debatable which is more important, and depends upon the background of each pilot.

As for myself, at my current rate of building, we may never have to decide who will fly it first, but if it ever does get done, then there is only one choice, and you're looking at him.

Cheers.
 
pierre smith said:
...personalities??:)

Seriously folks....it ain't about flying the airplane so much but as Jamie pointed out....things do go wrong and the questions are:

A) What do I do if the engine quits at 100'....or maybe 500'?
B) What do I do if there's a fire and flames are coming in the cockpit? (BTW, this has happened in an RV-8 and the guy jumped out!)
C) What if acrid blue and black smoke starts coming into the cockpit?
...and on and on. These things have all happened to others and IF you can honestly accept that you'd perform exactly correctly and have the discipline and ability to do so, then go ahead. Becoming a test pilot with no test pilot training doesn't appeal to me much.

Regards,
Click to expand...

You're right, Pierre, but even the most experienced test pilot augers in now and then. None of us are able to walk on water so far as I know although there are guys who think they can. :)

The key here is going all out to make sure none of the above occur. And that involves getting other people involved in the process, like your friendly EAA tech and flight advisors. EAA and the insurance industry have the numbers. Since the advisor program began first flight incidents are way, way down.

Beyond all that, making the first flight successfully has a lot to do with the state of mind of the pilot. If one is current in type, feels good about it, and everyone involved agrees the initial plan is doable, go for it. If there is any doubt - don't do it.

Feeling a little tense is normal, everyone does. I avoid stress situations whenever possible and making a first flight with lots of people around is stressful for me. If anything goes wrong, I'm not sure how much a person on the ground will help. Flying the airplane is most important, not yacking on the radio crying help.

I did a first, first flight many years ago in front of a crowd including family and quite a few friends . The flight went well but I hated it. The next 2 airplane first flights, after all the advisors squares were filled, was between me and the guy in the tower on a quiet day with no one else around. I liked that a lot better. I figured the tower guy could call a fire truck and ambulance if needed and he gave me plenty of air space. My wife had mixed feelings after the fact, but she knew it was coming.

Bottom line in all this is an airplane ready to fly and a pilot reasonably sure he can do. The airplane HAS to be ready but the pilot may not be up to it and that's knowing your limits. (And that goes a long way toward staying alive in this business.) The first flight decision can not and must not be an expression of personal ego. It has to be a matter of preparation, experience, and personal limits and nothing else.

And one other point, while the flight is a test flight, most of us are not qualified test pilots. If that were a requirement, not many RV's would be flying. Most of us are just regular aviators doing our thing as best we know how on that first flight without a formal education on what it is we are supposed to be doing. It's not like the airplane is a first of a kind. There are plenty of them flying and if built according to plan, it will fly like all the rest.
 
chrispratt said:
After six and half years of building there was no way I was going to let someone else be the first to fly my airplane. Frankly, the thought of having someone else do my first flight never seriously crossed my mind......Chris
Click to expand...

JonJay said:
There is only one first flight. I was going to be the one to do it on the airplane I built..... You can always find someone more experienced or more qualified. In the end, you must make the decision, and only you.
Click to expand...

This surely rates as among the most highly personal decisions anyone can ever make in their entire life. Let's be honest. It is a calculated risk no matter who conducts the first flight. Everybody has a unique mindset, skill set and worldview. Personally, I was going to do it or die trying. Period. For that matter, I did not announce my intentions that morning either. I wanted to do it alone and I did not want any witnesses although I discovered later there was one local friend who watched it all. As far as I was concerned, this thing was between God and me. Aloft and circling overhead for one full hour that morning, I laughed, I prayed, I marveled, shouted out loud and was scared silly. In the end, that experience changed me forever...a milestone even more profound than my first solo 3 decades ago.

As you can see, my airport hardly qualifies as the ideal location for any first flight. With 30' elevation difference from one end of the runway to the other, we generally takeoff downhill and land uphill.

"You define the moment or the moment defines you." Roy McAvoy

23u7cxu.jpg


Would I do it again? Well, the first flight of my RV-8 is drawing near only this time I will happily defer its maiden flight to someone far more qualified than I. Only this time, I plan to be flying chase in my other RV. Now how lucky is that?
 
Several have mentioned that "there's only one FIRST flight, and nobody's gonna make it but ME ...", and that's great. For you.

We're not all wired the same, nor do we all have the same flight experience, training, motivation, etc. Maybe it's because I took so long building ... maybe it's because I'm a bit older than I was when I squished those first rivets ... maybe it's because my testosterone level is lower now ...

Whatever the reason(s), it would have been a big mistake for me to make the maiden voyage in N8RV. Period. If for no other reason than I'd probably have peed my pants. The motivation just wasn't there. No, I didn't sport an RV-grin when I watched Smokey fly around up there circling around while I watched from the ground. But, when I did make MY first flight, I enjoyed it much more not having to worry about basic stuff (you know, like flight instruments that didn't work right, trim being wired backwards, wings falling off, etc.)

Pierre and others are spot on, IMO -- unless you're current, confident and trained, there's not a thing wrong with passing the reins to someone who is. I was lucky enough to have a good friend who did that for me, and I'll be eternally grateful.

In a word, THINK WITH YOUR HEAD AND NOT YOUR EGO when it comes to the first flight. I don't think anyone will consider me less of a builder OR a pilot because I let someone else do a shakedown flight for me.

And, if I'm wrong ... well ... I really don't care. :D
 
Good reading!

I am enjoying reading the comments on this topic, this is right up there with the primer and prop wars. :)

I am a low time pilot and plan to prepare myself the best I can with training/education beforehand, but ultimately I know I will have to assume some risk if I do choose to fly my first flight...which at this point I am about 95% sure I will. The risk/reward will be worth it to me, and yes, that is a very personal decision and I can respect both sides of this argument.
 
thallock said:
Actually Ryan, you are not being totally fair to Crossbow. Since there is no such thing as a "standard" RV panel, I think the guy who built the panel and sat in front of it for dozens of hours playing with everything has a decided advantage over another pilot....
Click to expand...

Tracy, I hate being the proverbial turd in the punchbowl, but it's important to look at these issues with logic and not emotion (not that there's a thing wrong with emotion, as that is what is motivating 99.9% of us to build these airplanes). While it is true that most RVs coming out of people's garages have panels and switches that are configured differently (running the gamut from plain jane to spaceship as well as cluster-f to feng shui), the mission of a first flight is to verify the airworthiness of the aircraft, not to load a nonprecision circling approach into the triple redundant navigation system. As noted previously, some test pilots have found themselves flying airplanes with erroneous, or even missing, indications from the panel. To a low time pilot, or someone new to a certain type, failures like this can become overwhelming. To a trained, experienced, and current test pilot, it may seem almost routine.

While each and every one of us takes some risk when we go flying in any equipment, we do what we can to manage those inherant risks. Sometimes, an introspective look into our own abilities will lead us to what is the "right" decision, whether we agree with the answer emotionally or not. Again, not trying to be the party pooper here, just interjecting an unemotional perspective into the debate. I'm just in the beginning stages of my build and have a lot of time to ponder whether to test fly my own airplane or not.
 
I didn't test fly mine........

but heck, I didn't have a license, had only had a ride in an RV once. I had just met a friend that had built 3 RV6's and one 10. He also happens to test fly everything from Cont. Airlines that comes out of heavy maintenance. He had looked at everything and all went well. Am I lucky or what? Would I do the same thing again? Only over & over & over.

Every flight I fly my plane is a test flight, "a test flight of me & my skills."

Don't stumble on your ego, "You make your own luck."
 
FIRST FLIGHT: Great responses! Let me add to the question.

Whew! This was my first post to the VAF Forums and it looks like I picked a hum-dinger of a topic that (albeit perhaps discussed ad nauseum previously) still holds a lot of emotion and REALLY good arguments for both sides.

THANKS FOR THE TREMENDOUS RESPONSE! You've given me a lot to ponder. And, since I am only ordering my -9A empennage kit this coming Summer, I'll have plenty of time to think it all over.

Now here's another question along the same lines:
I understand that the FAA regs for the EAB category prohibits the use of An Experimental aircraft for compensation or hire, but there is an exception for certain FAA-approved pilots performing Transition Training in type (paraphrasing here). So are these guys the same guys one would hire as First Flight test pilots, or is there a different breed of test pilots exempted by the FAA for that purpose?

Again..thanks for the lively discussion.
 
Mornin' Paul

You're correct in your assessment of waivered transition training instructors but no, we're not FAA approved test pilots....there isn't such a category for us, I believe. The guys with a lot of RV experience and familiarity with a particular model/models are the recommended first flight test pilots.

Regards,
 
Flyfalcons said:
This is a common but erroneous thought. Building a plane has nothing to do with flying it safely. I have no idea of your flying experience or currency level, and you may be perfectly qualified to test fly your airplane, but the above line of thinking simply isn't true.

Who makes the test flights on new and rebuilt aircraft for the big boys - the people who built the planes, or trained, experienced professional pilots?
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Well, when it comes to the smaller, general aviation planes, normally the test pilot is an experienced engineer who helped design the plane. The reason being, is that since he was so involved in the design, he knows it better than just about anyone else and can thereby give provide a insightful evaluation. There was a good article in the AOPA magazine a few years ago about a fellow who does this sort of work.

As for my qualifications, I am an engineer, I have an IFR rating, I have had the good fortune to own one plane, fly several others, and I am in the process of getting my commerical rating (I would like to be an instructor).

Further, I would say that building a plane can help one to fly it safely because such knowledge could be quite useful in quickly determing if a problem situation is actually a critical problem or a trivial problem.

Thanks!
 
First Flight

From the start, I knew I would be the one to fly the first flight. I had about 800 hours in 10 years, most tailwheel lightplanes and gliders. Given the kind of flying I've done, I don't consider that "low-time". Prior to the first flight, I had 5 hours in RVs, including 2 hours with Mike Seager, and two hours five days before. The airplane had been gone over with a fine-tooth comb. I was as confident as I could be in the plane and in myself. Weather was perfect for the first flight -- sunny with winds light and variable. I only had one person watching -- no pressure. My feeling was that I had reduced the risk as much as possible. I flew for 15 minutes. The left wing was heavy and elevator trim was reversed -- no big deal. I made a nice landing.

I didn't like the idea of a test pilot mainly because if something happened, I wanted it to happen to me. I built the plane; it was my responsibility. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if someone else got hurt or killed in the plane I built. Moreover, I figure the percentage of something happening where a test pilot might be able to salvage the situation and not get hurt and I could not was low - 5%. Yeah, there's risk, but there's risk every time you go up.

Finally, I'm very proud of building the plane and then making the first flight. It was my accomplishment, from start to finish.
 
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It sure does my heart good to read about how many builders have the pitch trim servo reversed! I don't feel quite as stupid now ... :D
 
Wedding Night

I am in the middle of my wings now so I have lots of time to ponder this question as well. I realize lots of people have different reasons and thoughts about it..

To me though emotion has lots to do with it; the first flight is like the wedding night and I definitely don't want a stand in. I will put that flight on hold until I know my skills are ready and I can manage the airplane.. I am currently flying other airplanes as I build and will continue to make sure I am super current and ready for the transition into an RV.

Things may change in my mind as I get closer to the day, but for now I look at it as I am the one with the investment and relationship in the airplane. It is personal and emotional and I would buy a used mid 70's plane if I wanted to have something flown by someone else. Just my opinion though.

I am building it to fly it.. ;-)
 
N8RV said:
......I watched Smokey fly around up there circling around while I watched from the ground......not having to worry about basic stuff (you know, like flight instruments that didn't work right, trim being wired backwards, wings falling off, etc....)THINK WITH YOUR HEAD AND NOT YOUR EGO....
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N8RV said:
It sure does my heart good to read about how many builders have the pitch trim servo reversed! I don't feel quite as stupid now ... :D
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Don,

Are you suggesting EGO may be clouding the judgment of those who choose to deal with challenges differently than you do? Hmm. Lets think about that for a moment.

Ego is among other things:
A. An exaggerated sense of self importance; conceit
B. Pride in oneself; self esteem
C. A person's opinion of his or her own worth.

Seems to me that if a person would rather to expose SOMEONE ELSE to the potential dangers (better ye than me)
inherent in a machine they themselves created, that decision *can* in effect be driven by a much larger "EGO" than those builders who selflessly choose to conduct the first flight themselves. :D

I'm kidding of course but the point is....we should not judge. Raising concerns about the OTHER person's motivation smells of rationalization to me. This isn't about calling someone else's "ego" into question....its about confronting our own.

By the way, during that first flight I too discovered the pitch trim is wired backwards and even though a simple wire change is all it takes to "fix" it...I kinda like it just the way it is.
 
Test Pilot Compensation question....continued

So then how can a test pilot accept $$ or other compensation if they are flying in an Experimental aircraft without a waiver?

pierre smith said:
You're correct in your assessment of waivered transition training instructors but no, we're not FAA approved test pilots....there isn't such a category for us, I believe. The guys with a lot of RV experience and familiarity with a particular model/models are the recommended first flight test pilots.

Regards,
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cattflight said:
So then how can a test pilot accept $$ or other compensation if they are flying in an Experimental aircraft without a waiver?
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Here we go again. The waiver allows people to RENT their aircraft for the purpose of offering transition training. You can pay an instructor for a flight review or instrument training in your RV. You can be paid for fly your experimental in an airshow. You simply can't carry passengers or cargo for hire and you may not rent out an experimental aircraft unless you have some sort of waiver.
 
704CH said:
To me though emotion has lots to do with it; the first flight is like the wedding night and I definitely don't want a stand in.
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The difference here is your wife (hopefully) knows it's you. Your airplane doesn't know if it's you or a highly competent RV test pilot.
For me the bottom line is this: only when I feel comfortable flying dead stick with no instruments (i.e airspeed, attitude indicator, etc.) will I attempt first flight. Therefore my first flight may not be the first flight of the airplane.
 
I'm thinking the term "test pilot" for a new RV is a bit of a misnomer. After all, RV's are approaching the level of standardization found in the typical spam can. Assuming the aircraft is built correctly, CG is right, systems checkouts are good, etc, what "real" risk exists? Is the flight of a brand new, "stock" RV much different than the first post-restoration flight of a Stearman or Citabria? Would anyone hire a test pilot for that?

The point is, the flying qualities of a popular homebuilt such as a RV, Starduster, Thorp, Bearhawk, etc, are fairly well established, so the risk to the average "qualified" pilot performing the first flight is pretty minimal in my opinion.

And to answer the OP's question: If I am qualified in type, yes, I will/have perform(ed) the first flight on any of my aircraft, new or restored.
 
No need to read between the lines ...

Rick6a said:
Don,

Are you suggesting EGO may be clouding the judgment of those who choose to deal with challenges differently than you do? Hmm. Lets think about that for a moment...
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Nope, no judgement here, Rick. I'm just being upfront about the thought processes, that's all. We have a LOT of builders here who are years away from finishing and having to actually make that decision. If there's a preponderance of comments like, "Nobody's gonna make that first flight but ME...", it can cause people to think that that's the norm, and that they're weirdos for lacking the confidence to do it. When, in reality, allowing someone else that privilege may be a decision that saves a life.

We macho peelot types sometimes let our hangar flying cloud our better judgement. That's all I'm saying.

Heck, if I'd had lots of time in lots of planes, or even current time in a similar plane, I'd have gladly flown Smokey for the first time and not ask someone else to take the risk. And, BTW, my "test pilot" had also worked on the plane with me several times and knew the plane pretty well. If he hadn't been confident is the structure and systems, I'm sure he wouldn't have volunteered.
 
Rick6a said:
I'm kidding of course but the point is....we should not judge. Raising concerns about the OTHER person's motivation smells of rationalization to me. This isn't about calling someone else's "ego" into question....its about confronting our own.
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That's a perfect statement! That's great, I love it, seriously!!!!

And I agree 100% !!!!

I too am reading through all this entire thread, and see much rationalization of why someone is not conducting a first flight. If a builder doesn't yet feel up to it, then fine. But with RV's being as standarized as they are........ "professional" type test pilots are not required.

L.Adamson ---- RV6A
 
So simple even a cave man can do it

"professional" type test pilots are not required.
I believe Cessna continues to flight test every 172 that comes off of the assembly line (spins included). Interesting that they would feel this is necessary for a design over half a century old. Wonder if they're using "professionals", or just asking for volunteers from the local flight schools to fly these standardized machines.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
 
Crossbow said:
As for my qualifications, I am an engineer, I have an IFR rating, I have had the good fortune to own one plane, fly several others, and I am in the process of getting my commerical rating (I would like to be an instructor).
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So your qualifications to perform the first flight are that you're a private pilot, rated in the category and class that the RV falls into. Nothing wrong with that; it's perfectly legal. Whether the knowledge that there are three inspection panels on the left wing and the ailerons delect 23 degrees up and down is of benefit to you when the engine fails at 200 feet is debatable. Some would argue that many hours flown in the same type of plane would better prepare someone for a first flight, but I digress. All my ratings from ATP and down, and flight experience in many types including experiencing abnormal events in those types, doesn't necessarily give me any great insight on an RV first flight either.
 
terrykohler said:
"professional" type test pilots are not required.
I believe Cessna continues to flight test every 172 that comes off of the assembly line (spins included). Interesting that they would feel this is necessary for a design over half a century old. Wonder if they're using "professionals", or just asking for volunteers from the local flight schools to fly these standardized machines.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
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...............Maybe your correct. I suppose Van's should create a professional test pilot school to test all first RV flights. :( That will certainly take the load off our shoulders, for a slight additional cost...

I'll also assume the comment of volunteers from local flight schools is just being a bit silly. Other than that, it's only reasonable to check out every airplane before it's turned over to a customer. Do you think that Cessna puts every new 172 through the same rigorous testing, that's been taking place with it's new "SkyCatcher"? ......... I don't.

One more thing............Spin testing on every new 172 off the assembly line? I doubt that, but I'd like to know for sure

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
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