aadamson

aadamson

Well Known Member
So, for those that have them, in the cockpit, I'm looking for something "smallish" but effective. We're talking portable here btw. Ya can't get Halon anymore, so what are ya using and how large are they?

Thanks in advance,
 
I am pretty sure Halon is available

aadamson said:
So, for those that have them, in the cockpit, I'm looking
for something "smallish" but effective. We're talking portable here btw. Ya
can't get Halon anymore, so what are ya using and how large are they?
Thanks in advance,
Click to expand...
Alan you can get Halon, it is just HazMat if shipped. The Montreal Protocol
and the Clean Air Act, did outlaw new Halon production in 1994, it is still legal
to purchase and use recycled Halon and Halon fire extinguishers. In fact, the
FAA requires all commercial aircraft to exclusively use halon. Freon and Halon
both used for aerospace are exempt from the ban.


http://store.yahoo.com/stylespilotshop/12hafiex.html
(notice for aviation use only at bottom of page)

Halon is the only thing you can use in the cockpit. So if it was no longer
available, we would all be in trouble. You can get smaller Halon units than
above 2.6 lbs, but that is the smallest I would buy. For hand held portable
fire fighting Halon 1211-1301 is ideal for electrical fires (Class B/C), and will
not kill you with toxic chemicals. Dry Chem is out of the question.

Since you have a composite plane, PLEASE don't think I am picking on you or
being a "Wisenhiemer scientist", but composite and fire don't mix, really :eek:.
I would get a second large fire extinguisher to supplement the small halon
unit.

As far as size, besides one small 2-3lb handheld Halon for electrical fires
behind the instrument panel, you can handle with one hand, I would get a
much larger one, also Halon, CO2 or even dry chemical for exterior use only.

Dry chemical may be more effective for exterior, fuel, oil, brake-fire fires but
leave a mess, but that may be better than the fire getting away from you.
CO2 has the advantage of not leaving residue. Halon would work for the large
extinguisher as well but is expensive.

Halon is the only thing you can use in the cockpit. So if it was no longer
available, we would all be in trouble.

Good Luck, George


Besides Halon there are other trade marked legal substitutes to Halon,
Halotron I and PhostrEx to name two.
 
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There are a ton of extinguishers available but be ready in the cockpit for what comes out of the nozzle.
A combination extinguisher "ABC" (the most common) is like talcom powder. It gets into everything!! If you ever need to use it in the air - be ready to hold your breath and close your eyes. It's not harmful if it gets in your mouth, but it will dry everything out. It will completely fill your cockpit with powder, so be ready to get rid of it somehow so you can see out your windscrean.
The "A" means it will put out common combustibles, seats, carpet, lap boards, clothing, cup holders The "B" means it will put out flammible liquids, and the "C" means it will put out energized electrical equipment. What it really means is that the electricity will not flow up the powder stream and electricute you. Not much worry in a plane, but maybe at home or a hanger where the real electricity is.
CO2 is the next best from halon, but may be difficult to find in small tanks. It works by displacing the oxygen. It leaves no residue or mess. Very Clean!
Neither of them cool what was on fire much, so leave a little in the tank incase you need to use it again before landing. What's most important is to just get one! It's better to have a chance at landing, then no chance at all. A fire inside a GA plane will be unsurvivable within a minute or two if nothng is done. Not only is the fire BAD but the burning plastics will poisen your lungs. With that - Safe flying!
 
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George and FireandFly are right. You can buy either one but new Halon is not being manufactured. Halon has been replaced with Halotron 1 which is less toxic to the environment than Halon. Here are just a couple of sample pages from Sporty's:

http://sportys-catalogs.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&Product_ID=6247&CATID=96#desc

http://sportys-catalogs.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&Product_ID=6804&CATID=178

Of course, notice the Halon has the same BC rating with less agent weight. Don't you just love "progress"?

Good shopping.
 
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What is the risk?

Has anyone ever heard of someone getting a fire in the cockpit (not under the cowl) while flying, and then put it out, and land safely?

I would think that most events like this would not show up in the NTSB database, since there was no crash, so it's kind of hard to find info.
 
Halon

fireandfly said:
A combination extinguisher "ABC" (the most common) is like talcum powder. It gets into everything!! If you ever need to use it in the air - be ready to hold your breath and close your eyes. It's not harmful if it gets in your mouth, but it will dry everything out. It will completely fill your cockpit with powder, so be ready to get rid of it somehow so you can see out your windscreen.
Click to expand...
Yup, the dry chemical is not for use in the cockpit or ANYWHERE on an aluminum plane. The chemical will get everywhere and will be IMPOSSIBLE to remove later. It will then proceed to act as a corrosive agent. I know all the arguments of how the plane is not important. True, but fires do happen that are not life threatening and when the plane is on the ground. It is best to have an extinguisher that will put out the fire and not put the plane out to pasture via corrosion. Again, ?The agony of poor results lingers long after the sweetness of cheap price has worn off." Get Halon. Check out eBay. There are several reputable brokers there selling for less than $100.00.
 
Hear is a Halon unit in my RV-6A

This is how I installed the Halon unit from Aircraft Spruce in my RV-6A. The current catalog still shows them available. Mine is not the smallest size.

Bob Axsom

dvc000066fp.jpg


dvc000094fp.jpg
 
It could happen?

rv8ch said:
Has anyone ever heard of someone getting a fire in
the cockpit (not under the cowl) while flying, and then put it out, and
land safely?
Click to expand...

Very spacific question. Of course there has been cockpit fires, almost
always and typically electical. A extingisher is handy for putting out
more than just the cockpit fires.

Cirrus saved by onboard and near by fire extinguisher

There has been more than one brake fire on RV's:

RV brake fire could have been total


Than there is a ton of smoke in the cockpit stories:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001206X00600&key=1
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X09213&key=1
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X22248&key=1

I see you are not arguing that it could happen, but has there been any
cases of a "SAVE". George
 
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Well I saved my car

When I was flying to work every day at JPL I used to have an old light blue 1978 Ford Fairmont that I left in the parking lot at El Monte. One day I started the car and it caught on fire - underneath in the area of the catalitic converter. I ran back to my plane, got the fire extinguisher and put out the fire then drove to work. I drove that car for seven years that way before it finally demanded that I donate it to charity. That's kind of an aviation related save.

Bob Axsom
 
What about side effects?

OK, putting out the fire is important. And so is breathing. Halon and CO2 work by displacing the oxygen. Is it generally accepted that there is enough turnover of air in the cockpit that if I discharge a halon extinguisher I am not going to suffocate myself? And if there is enough turnover of air, is the halon going to be effective on the fire? My only experience with halon has been in the large data centers where when the red light starts flashing, it is best one remove themselves from the room.
 
Smoke on board

...Kind of off topic, but about two weeks ago in my PA-22/20-108 I had a comm radio smoke (literally) and in about 3 seconds it was dead -- the display got dimmer and dimmer as the side tone got quieter and quieter during transmit. DEAD! ...The pungent smoke of cooked transformer and a couple capacitors (found when the tech got it). I was on the ground taxiing, so I turned the master off NOW and taxied back to the hangar (uncontrolled airport). I could even smell the pungent odor in my nose the next day while at home, and this was just a wisp of smoke, nothing like a major fire would produce. It's pretty toxic stuff. The radio is now fixed and back in the plane.

I think maybe now I will carry a readily accessable handheld pre-tuned to 121.5 for IMMEDIATE ACCESS -- turn it on and transmit. If I need a different frequency I'll just tune it to what I need. There should be plenty of time for that, but NOT if I need 121.5 NOW.

Don Gray
N17QB 7A in progress
 
Halon won't hurt you

Some years back I was installing and testing fire supression systems in airliner cargo holds. The question came up about what if there was an accidental halon discharge with guys working inside. The Walter-Kidde engineers explaind in great detail how halon works. The key is that it is relatively inert UNTIL it comes in contact with combusting material, then through a pretty complex chemical reaction, the burning material combines with halon instead of O2. Then the halon is released to continue the process of putting out the fire. This property is why halon is such an effective fire fighter but also why it is so good at destroying ozone. Some of the by products of process are toxic, but no worse than smoke from the fire. The acceptable level of halon in air per OSHA is far above the level that is capable of putting out a fire.

Paul Danclovic
Carver, MN
RV-8A
 
Halon and CO2 don't extinguish flame in the same manner as noted above. Don't ever discharge a dry chem one in the cockpit. It will suffocate and blind you. Halon only in the cockpit. I have 2 big CO2 units in my hangar for ground use. Relatively cheap from industrial supply warehouses. These won't destroy your aircraft like dry chem ones. Much better for use on burning people too. Ever see what dry chem does to burned flesh? :(
 
halon in the cockpit

Halon is the only option for in cockpit use. I would think that a small size would be the way to go, because if you do have a fire and the little fella won't do the trick, the bigger one probably won't either, and the extra squirt time would be better spent flying and de-energizing. The fire is going to be behind the panel, and probably out of reach anyway. the old saw about an ounce of prevention beats a pound and a half of halon (or somethin' like that) applies here. At a chapter meeting last year an avionics guy showed us pretty graphicly the difference between tefzel and the cheap stuff when you hold a flame to it. The non aviation wire keeps on burning and pumping out black acrid smoke. My point is, use quality electrical supplys and standard practices when you do your panel, and think about the worse case and design your system to minimize the chance of the big cable going dead short. and if the worst happens, power off everything first thing.
 
Fire extinguishers = MUST HAVE

I've flown for years and never gave much thought about having a fire extinguisher on board.

Last week, everything changed. My work truck caught on fire last week. In less than 90 seconds, the entire truck was engulfed in flames. Everyone think about that for a minute: 90 seconds from a small fire to a destroyed vehicle and I had two powder type extinguishers handy! I ordered a halon unit for the plane the next day, and now, I'm not flying without one.

A note on the powder type extinguishers. About 2 years ago, I had one discharge on accident inside a vehicle. It was a large Ford Expedition, not a small RV, and not only did I almost choke to death before I could stop, but the whole truck was covered in yellow talc like powder. If something like that were to discharge in a RV, there is NO WAY you could see or breath to land. Buy Halon!
 
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