A

avi8tor50

Well Known Member
To all of you who have fiberglass skills and knowledge:

Time to order fiberglass supplies to start work on all of the various glass tasks that must be done. I plan to start by working on the cowl.
I am trying to compile a list of supplies so I can get most of the basics with one order. I have searched previous threads but would like a "current" list of suggestions as to what I should purchase. Remember, I am a newbie with NO previous fiberglass experience!

Here is what I have gleaned from previous threads:

1 quart West Systems 105 Epoxy
1 pint of 206 hardener
Set of metered pumps (MANDATORY) After getting the pumps, use a Sharpie and mark the halfway point on the stroke of the pumps for smaller quantity use.
Small container of 410 micro filler
1" Wide glass tape 10 yrd pack (if you are going to glass in the tail stuff)
.007 thickness
2" Wide glass tape .007 3yrd pack
3" Wide glass tape .007 2-3yrd packs
Mixing cups
Peel Ply
Small squeeges
205 hardner
Cotton flocking (1/2 lb)
Rotary cutter

As always, any help will be appreciated!

Peter K
9A
 
Fiberglass Supplies

Peter -

I'm no fiberglass expert, but I can offer a few comments on your list.

A quart kit of West won't go very far. Get a gallon of 105, quart of 206 and a pint of 205.

Don't trust the pumps - they leak down between uses. Partial portions are bad, mkay. Get a scale with 0.01g resolution and mix by weight.

You'll run thru a small container of 401 micro in a very few sessions. I seem to remember buying a pound from Wicks.

Floc comes in handy, 1/2-lb will probably be enough. So does Cab-O-Sil (or fumed silica, depending on who's selling it), probably won't need much.

With a large chunk of glass cloth, you can make your own tapes in whatever width and bias you need. Some prepared tapes have a selvedge edge that won't lay down when applied.

Thayercraft.com has the best price on glass cloth that I've found, and a huge selection. Pleasant to do business with and an airplane builder, too.

9-oz, 8-harness weave is very nice to work with. Thayercraft sells it as "7781".
 
Peter,
I agree with Neal. A little of the fiberglass tape in the 2-3" width is helpful, but you do need a couple of yards of fabric. The 9.66 oz cloth is the one you will use most often for most of your projects. 2 yds will go a long way and should be enough to finish a plane. Some lighter weight cloth in the 3-5 oz range is good for doing highly curved parts and for adding layers without a lot of build up. Fiberglass mat is very useful for building up areas. Get a small amount of that. The small roll of 3" carbon tape is very good for doing around the canopy roll bar. It will add an incredible amount of strength and stiffness. The 410 filler is by far the best filler I have tried. Unlike Neal I have never had any trouble with my pumps and I have been using the same ones for years. I guess they differ. A quart of resin is not enough. Get the gallon. I have never had a use for the fast hardener. I find the slow hardener plenty fast about 30-40 min of working time. The resin won't go bad, but the hardener will oxidize and turn color overtime. Get them in the small containers. The pumps are designed to work with the kits. That's the main reason I usually stick to the quart kits. Get the 8 or 12 oz cups. The 3 oz are worthless.

You will also need:

Tongue depressors (aka mixing sticks)
Plenty of acetone
Latex/nitrile gloves
Industrial style scissors (homedepot aviation department)
Occasional use of mold relase. I use it over the packing tape; makes like easier.

I hope this helps!

Jerry
N84JE




avi8tor50 said:
To all of you who have fiberglass skills and knowledge:

Time to order fiberglass supplies to start work on all of the various glass tasks that must be done. I plan to start by working on the cowl.
I am trying to compile a list of supplies so I can get most of the basics with one order. I have searched previous threads but would like a "current" list of suggestions as to what I should purchase. Remember, I am a newbie with NO previous fiberglass experience!

Here is what I have gleaned from previous threads:

1 quart West Systems 105 Epoxy
1 pint of 206 hardener
Set of metered pumps (MANDATORY) After getting the pumps, use a Sharpie and mark the halfway point on the stroke of the pumps for smaller quantity use.
Small container of 410 micro filler
1" Wide glass tape 10 yrd pack (if you are going to glass in the tail stuff)
.007 thickness
2" Wide glass tape .007 3yrd pack
3" Wide glass tape .007 2-3yrd packs
Mixing cups
Peel Ply
Small squeeges
205 hardner
Cotton flocking (1/2 lb)
Rotary cutter

As always, any help will be appreciated!

Peter K
9A
Click to expand...
 
Some suggestions

I would just buy 20yd of 3" tape. You can trim to fit.

A couple quarts of Acetone for cleanup.

For mixing cups, just go to Costco and buy a package of 12oz Dixie HOT (paper) cups (not COLD cups). They are plastic lined and work well.

100 tongue depressors for mixing sticks.

Plenty of Bounty paper towels.

A box of 100 Latex or Nitrile gloves.

From Home Depot Paint section, get a small roll of at least 3mil plastic drop cloth. This is used for layups. You cut 6-8" off the roll. Cut a piece 6" longer than the length of the tape you are laying up. Lay down the plastic on the work bench. Lay the tape on the plastic and wet it down with Epoxy. Then lay another piece of plastic on top of the wet tapes. You now have a layup 'sandwich'. This method keeps the fiberglass from distorting or loosing it's shape. Use squeegee to completely wet-out the layup. Then use the squeegee to squeeze out the excess into the excess plastic sheet. With a pair of cheap scissors, cut off the excess epoxy and throw away. Peel away one layer of plastic. Take the layup to the work. Carefully place the layup in position, wet side to the work, and use a squeegee to set it in place. Slowly peel away the top layer of plastic. Done. Blot up any excess epoxy with Bounty towels. Bounty will not break up or leave fibers on the layup. Cheap paper towels will.

Use acetone to clean up scissors and squeegee after each use.
Use a different set of scissors to cut dry 'glass. you should have good 'dry scissors' and cheap 'wet' scissors.
 
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The List

Hi Frank,

The list you posted was one I posted a while back. It is accurate and will get you through most of the glass work. Super-fil is great for later.

Regarding the quantity of Epoxy to purchase, I'm not sure what you guys are doing with it. I think the common problem is mixing too much and getting lots of waste. That is why I advised to mark the pumps at half stroke to avoid waste. Dan H. weighs his epoxy which works well too. I've not had problems with the pump system but have weighed a larger mix. The scale is the most accurate but a little more time consuming.

I did the tail glass, wing tips, canopy, cowl, fairings, wheel pants on my plane and my neighbors tail glass and some model projects with one quart. Use it sparingly and you'll be fine.

The pre packaged tapes I noted from www.cstsales.com are all that you really need. They conform very nicely to the canopy curves eliminating the need to cut stuff on a 45 bias. Also they do not have a significant edge sewn in. The only real need for yards of cloth would be to reinforce the wing tips to eliminate oil canning during high speed flight. A couple of bands of cloth, top and bottom inside the tips helps dramatically.

Just a few more thoughts
 
Ditto what Greg said. An added benefit of the plastic layup sandwich is that you can trace a pattern onto the bottom piece of plastic. Once the glass is wetted, you can see the pattern and then cut to approximate size before applying the layup. Typically not something you have to do working on RVs, but if you decide to explore the use of fiberglass further it's a handy trick for more complex shapes.
 
more stuff

Did I miss the micro balloons on your list? Spruce sells it by the pound. One pound is all you'll need.
Buy an Olfa or Fiskars rotary cutter at Wal Mart. It's in the fabric department.
I wetted my glass canopy strips on top of aluminum foil. Use the rotary cutter again to cut the foil/glass sandwich. Peel and toss the foil after the strip is in place.

N345SF
Steve
 
From the "dark side".... a fiberglas builder. A couple thoughts......

All the above is good info. The plastic layup sandwich is definitely the way to go. Fold it over rather than cut in 2 though...much less messy. I use 1 mil plastic...plenty heavy and more flexible.

Use your tongue depressors to spread the epoxy around so your squeegee doesn't get all gunked up. Gravity makes this work so be patient. No more than 4 BID at one time....more than 4, do multiple layups and put together.

Get a fabric cutter from the fabric store or even WM - $10-15. Use the cutter to cut your layups...much easier than scissors. Use a piece of tileboard (or HDPE) to protect your workbench from the cutting and the epoxy.

Sand and clean area throroughly (with acetone - Lowe's, etc)) to receive layup.

After epxoy has fully soaked in the glass, put the top plastic of the sandwich on. Now use your squeegee to work out the excess epoxy and all the air bubbles. Squeeze out most of the epoxy....dryer is better. Get the bubbles out here...much easier than on the part your are working. Apply lay-up to part and remove ALL bubbles with roller or a stipple brush (just cut off most of a 1 inch paint brush to make it stiff), then pull top plastic off.

I would recommend uncoated mixing cups... no wax, no plastic.

The pumps work fine and really speed things along. You metal builders may not do enough to make a pump pay. I check my weight ratios periodically...never had a problem.

Use a dust mask when mixing micro. I use a 3 M respriator when using large amounts of acetone as well.

Hope that helps. I love the VAF site and visit regulary.

Gordon

Lancair ES
n144GP in process
 
examine your cups closely. make sure you get uncoated cups. i worked at the Dixie Cup manufaturing plant and the machines use silicone to make the top iron roll the top curl on the cup, they are loaded with silicone most of the time. not all the machines used this though. just the ones with a plastic liner we called it poly..made on the PMC machines. not sure if it dries away leaving no trace or not. YMMV
 
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cytoxin said:
examine your cups closely. make sure you get uncoated cups. i worked at the Dixie Cup manufaturing plant and the machines use silicone to make the top iron roll the top curl on the cup, they are loaded with silicone most of the time. not all the machines used this though. just the ones with a plastic liner we called it poly..made on the PMC machines. not sure if it dries away leaving no trace or not. YMMV
Click to expand...

All I know is that I have used them for years with no known effect on layups.
 
I am not a fiberglass expert but this is what I have in my shop.

Gallon and a half of epoxy
6 oz E glass cloth
6 oz E glass 2 inch tape
Micro Balloons
Flocked Cotton
Talc
Mixing Sticks
Mixing cups
Box of Spreaders

I buy a most of the stuff from JGreer http://www.jgreer.com/ because they have good products and good prices. His Aeromarine Epoxy I think is easier to work with than West Systems.

I have a box of mixing sticks from Spruce. There is a bazillion sticks in the box and they seem to last forever. The sticks have a rounded end so I cut them square in the band saw to reach the corners of the cups. Sam James's advice.

Mixing cups I get from a local restaurant supply store. I use 3/4 ounce cups for measuring. I mark up the side of the cup with a sharpie if I want to use less than 3/4 of an ounce. Which is most of the time. The epoxy I am using is a 2 to 1 ratio so two cups of epoxy to one cup of hardener. West systems is 5 to 1.

The reason I like to use 6 oz cloth is that it is 10 thousands (.010) thick. It makes it easy to calculate how many layers to obtain a thickness. Most of vans fiberglass parts are .060 thick.
 
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