danielhv

danielhv

Well Known Member
So long story short, im 28, getting married this weekend, and have been doing my usual day dreaming on barnstormers. I keep going back to these Mooneys on there. $65k can get a nice one. Then I started thinking... I'm building a 2 seat RV, but what if I have a kid? No family trips w/o paying high dollar rental rates etc. Am I making a mistake? Will I finally finish this one day just to have to sell it to buy a 4 seater? SHould I have done a -10? Should I just sell it all and buy a Mooney and do owner assisted annuals / maintenance (good friends with A&P/IA... He already told me he'd have no prob w/me helping out on any work to save some $...

Im so confused. Perhaps it has to do with the 5 days of freedom I have left? :D
 
All five of my kids had grown and left home..............by the time I finished my RV. Just slow down a bit....
 
danielhv said:
So long story short, im 28, getting married this weekend, and have been doing my usual day dreaming on barnstormers. I keep going back to these Mooneys on there. $65k can get a nice one. Then I started thinking... I'm building a 2 seat RV, but what if I have a kid? No family trips w/o paying high dollar rental rates etc. Am I making a mistake? Will I finally finish this one day just to have to sell it to buy a 4 seater? SHould I have done a -10? Should I just sell it all and buy a Mooney and do owner assisted annuals / maintenance (good friends with A&P/IA... He already told me he'd have no prob w/me helping out on any work to save some $...

Im so confused. Perhaps it has to do with the 5 days of freedom I have left? :D
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avoid getting married, problem solved!

in all seriousness, you're still placing a good chunk of change into an asset that will probably retain value moreso than a sports car or some other typical adrenaline outlet, i say build on- it's not worth anything until it's airworthy anyway :)
 
As long as you're eating yourself up over what might happen...

What if you have 3 or 4 kids...then the -10 wouldn't be much help either.


Live for the day, the journey is most of the fun. You might not see that as it's ongoing, but when you look back, you;ll realize it.

Congratulations on the wedding--

Joe
 
How many wives fly places with the man? How many kids go on a vacation?

The RV may not be the transportation plane you anticipate. There are airlines for that with airfares plenty cheap with advance purchase.

Mooneys are good aircraft.
 
It worked in my family

I am the last little one in a family of four. both plane that my dad and i built are two seaters. Luckily, my mom and sister didnt like flying in the first one (too low and slow for them)(high wing 85hp) so my dad and i did all the flying. Now that the -7 is done, my sis moved out and got married, im 17 so i can take care of myself for weekends while my mom and dad go on weekend trips(my mom is a fan of 180mph ground speed;)) but she still isnt a huge fan of local flights that include 3+ Gs or upside down stuff& she still isnt into oshkosh. Thats where i get all my flying:D. Hope it all works out and like said before... keep on keepin on!!!
 
I've had those thoughts too.

But, when I really got down to it, returning to building my -6A, after ten years in crates, was as much about the building as the flying. My dream was to build and fly my own plane. Buying a very used factory built might get me in the air---but it's not even close to what I seem to need.
Whichever way you decide, just go for it and don't look back.
Bob
 
You think you are having regrets now? My best advice to you is RUN! Leave her at the alter! Get cold feet, flu, tonsillitis, break a leg, tell her you want a prenup, what ever it takes, but DO NOT DO IT! Are you nuts?

RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!


Then you will only need a 2 seater. :p



another one bites the dust..................... Congrats on the marriage, somehow I know you'll go through with it. ;)

"Better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all." :cool:
 
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Keep on building!
You don't want to look back someday and feel you let go of your dreams. By the time you have a child grown up enough to worry about carting around in the airplane, you can trade up, and if your still building at that time, think of what a cool father, Son(or Daughter) project it could be!!:)
Al Grajek
 
By the time your kids are able to walk they won't want to be around you. Sounds harsh but we had a four seat aircraft for all the time our two boys were growing up and we never filled the four seats. The kids get so busy with friends, sports and school that your only mission will be to drive them to the next activity.
Your RV will be for the few hours you will have to yourself. We have flown to an island in Lake Erie, had breakfast with friends and returned before the little darlings (teenagers) were out of bed. Mind you teenagers sleep until noon.
 
I have very specific thoughts about marriage...but that's not your question....

My suggestion is to carry-on with your project. It will be worth more as a flying aircraft should you decide to sell or you might choose to teach your children to fly in it someday.

I've heard it said that ninety percent of our fears will never come to pass; with regards to the other ten percent of our fears that do occur, we're probably more than capable of working through them. Don't give-up on your dreams because of your family - merge them with your family.

Good luck!
 
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Finish it, then start a -10. You'll have something to fly while building, and if you need the cash you can sell it and dump the money into your new project.

Personally I'd stay away from owning a Mooney. It may have four seats, but to fill one with 4 people and bags is a pipe dream. Plus they're REALLY tight inside. I've got about 80 hours of dual given in M20J's. Great airplane but horribly unforgiving to poor pilot technique so you never know what kind of abuse is lurking and I was never a fan of the electric gear system.
 
Listen to me now and believe me later: The RV is an extension of the man-cave. In the end, it will be for YOU to get away for awhile, not for you to take the family away. Stop apologizing and get building

erich
 
erich weaver said:
Listen to me now and believe me later: The RV is an extension of the man-cave. In the end, it will be for YOU to get away for awhile, not for you to take the family away. Stop apologizing and get building

erich
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Well stated! Don't even think of the kids and family trips right now. Then you'll start thinking about the $100/week diaper/formula bills, $500 strollers, $300 car seats (one for each car), $1200 childcare per month, etc, etc. and really get freaked out.
 
"It's me or the airplane..."

Dan,
There used to be an old rule of thumb that said newlyweds should wait 5 years before having children, to make sure they were well suited to one another and the marriage would survive the stress (both monetary and emotional) of starting a family.

This should give you more than enough time to finish your 7, so stop worrying and go buck some rivets! :D

Congrats on the upcoming wedding!
 
Stick with building and if you need a bigger one just rent one for those oh so few trips!
 
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First off, congrat's on the wedding....but do what I did:

Buy everything else you want, NOW! This way if it comes up in financial discussions, you can say "I bought that before we were married" :D

I am thinking engine and/or finish kit?

Hey, I bought myself a Browning Citori Over-Under shotgun the day before my wedding. I looked at it like a nice wedding gift to myself :rolleyes:
 
but what if I have a kid?

Sounds like you have about 9 months from this weekend to get the engine and finish kit ordered.:D
 
my 2 cents

There is always something that sounds better... who wouldnt want a nice 4 seater?

Well, my wife an I had way more fun on our 21 boat than we did on our 26' boat. It was just the boat we wanted...bought it and regretted it. Just saying what sounds good isnt alway the best. I have a great wife and two young kids. When needed I will rent a spam can. For the other 99.5 % of the time a 2 seater is PERFECT. My son and I will fly to hudson bay and camp, my wife and I will fly to some nice little classy places and my daughter and I will fly to some horse shows. And the other 95% of the time me and a buddy or just me will fly for the pancakes. A 2 seater is perfect for ALMOST every flight. A bigger, much more expensive plane will burn way more fuel and strectch the finances in a way that the two seater will not.

Build on and enjoy. No regrets...move forward. Fly often.
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is to consider the maintenance on that Mooney. I've never owned a Mooney, but Dan Checkoway has owned two of them. He posted the following in these forums several years ago. I quote:

"I used to own an M20F and an M20J. Loved them until I knew better. Ask Mooney drivers what their annuals cost and if they're totally happy with the quality of service they receive from their A&Ps. I suspect the average will be less than perfect.

My first annual on my RV-7 cost about $105. This year will be a real whopper at about $400 (adding and replacing a few things). My last few annuals on the Mooneys cost anywhere between $2500 and $4500. A $10,000 annual on a Mooney is not unheard of. Corrosion of the steel cage, corrosion of pushrods and rod ends, landing gear issues (i.e. nosegear oversteered by FBO ground personnel, etc.), and of COURSE weeping fuel tanks which seems to plague rougly 1 in 2 Mooneys at any given time. Resealing the tanks is not cheap.

So cut to building...

Building your RV-10 (or whatever) will, simply put, change your life. After all of the blood, sweat, and tears, you exit the tunnel with an airplane you built with your own two hands -- an airplane that you are now completely authorized to maintain in its entirety. The FAA hands you that Repairman Certificate for your airplane, and you are now utterly free of the monkeys that turn wrenches and charge you a fortune for less-than-perfect work. Quality is in your control. You can take your sweet time doing maintenance. You can do it on your schedule. You set the bar.

Not to mention that you have the ability to use the absolute most modern equipment -- powerplant options, propellers, and of course that fantastic panel full of glass or what have you, which won't be an option in your Mooney.

Cutting-edge technology, freedom from shoddy quality, all at about the same price. The real cost? A few years of your life. But during those years you will learn more about airplanes than you ever imagined possible. Your life truly will be changed.

Do you want to just fly around in something you don't know and have to pay to have maintained potentially imperfectly? Or do you want to fly around in something that is undoubtedly safe, ridiculously modern, customized to your every whim, and your pride and joy that you built with your own two hands?

I did enjoy flying the M20J since I knew no better at the time. I will never own a certificated airplane again."

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (1736 hours as of Dec. 8, 2008)
 
erich weaver said:
Listen to me now and believe me later: The RV is an extension of the man-cave. In the end, it will be for YOU to get away for awhile, not for you to take the family away. Stop apologizing and get building

erich
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Absolutely correct!!! My wife gave me "permission" to start the build and yesterday, when I told her about the trips we can make it in once the kids are all grown up and out, she decided to tell me that she wasn't going to fly in it???

AWESOME!!!!!!!


A complete MAN CAVE and lots of quality ALONE time!!!!

Dude, just suck it up and build it.....forget the 10 and the mooney and build your little rocket!!!

All the best.
 
I?m in the keep on building camp.

gimp2x said:
in all seriousness, you're still placing a good chunk of change into an asset that will probably retain value moreso than a sports car or some other typical adrenaline outlet, i say build on- it's not worth anything until it's airworthy anyway
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I agree, value wise, Van?s aircraft is an excellent investment, and will hold its value better than any other type of transportation vehicle, sports car, SUV, pickup, or you name it. One really needs to finish it though.

My 2005 Toyota Celica GT-S stickered out at $28,200 new. I?ve decided I want my space back in my building. Went to a used car dealer, and he said he would give me $9,900 since it was extra clean. Retail and private party value is considerably more, but good luck in this economy selling anything at a higher value. Anyway, just five years and 46,000 miles later, it has lost about two-thirds of its value. Think that?s going to happen with a Van?s aircraft? I bet you can fly it for 10 years, and still get your original money back into it (or very close to it), even in this lousy economy, although it probably will be a little bit slower to sell these days. Find some other toy that will hold its value better, and I?m all ears.
 
What he said.....

The Mooney does seem like a great option on the surface. Take the back seats out and you can haul as much stuff as an RV-7, about as fast, for about the same price. The deciding factor for me was the austere field capability that the RV has that the mooney does not. with 3" of prop clearance and no energy absorbing in the gear, you are not landing on a gravel or grass strip (unless its maintained like a golf course). So for me, being able to get there fast, and then able to land at the place I want to go, is the combination that makes the RV unique.

As for the family flying, Rick said it best below. Sometimes you may have the pleasure of renting a 4 place to take a family on a flying trip, but that will be a small percentage of the airplane utilization. Be delighted if your new bride is sitting next to you on 1/3 of your flights. The vast majority of your flying will be alone or with other pilot-friends.


RickWoodall said:
I have a great wife and two young kids. When needed I will rent a spam can. For the other 99.5 % of the time a 2 seater is PERFECT. My son and I will fly to hudson bay and camp, my wife and I will fly to some nice little classy places and my daughter and I will fly to some horse shows. And the other 95% of the time me and a buddy or just me will fly for the pancakes. A 2 seater is perfect for ALMOST every flight. A bigger, much more expensive plane will burn way more fuel and strectch the finances in a way that the two seater will not.

Build on and enjoy. No regrets...move forward. Fly often.
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Have you told her how much it's going to cost to finish the plane? Is she OK with it? Are you sure she's OK with it? If she really is then I'd go ahead and build on. I had the same thoughts about a Mooney but just don't want another 40-50 year old plane to mess with not to mention what you won't be able to put in the panel. Oh BTW, if she's not OK with it run, run far away!:D
 
Mooneys are good, but

I grew up with one in a 4 person family and 90% of the time there were just 2 persons in the airplane. My dad complained that there were no hot 2 seaters available at that time or thats what we would own. Previous poster is correct as it relates to our Mooney annuals. Repeated Prop and gear ADs = $$$ but we loved it anyway. SO... IF I ever need 4 seats, I'll rent them instead of paying for them all year round.
 
Then

I have 2 young kids. They grew from babies watching me build the -7, and the build times with the kids around the shop were cherished. Just today my nine year old, Abby, asked me to build another plane. She said she like helping me and wanted to again! Now 'helping me' when she was younger involved mostly playing with clecos, drawing on the plane, or doing her own 'projects', usually with my supplies. :). Whatever the help, I loved it, and so did the kids.

Now the plane is built and my family will periodically ask when I'm going to build a 4-seater. Sure, there are a few trips a year where I might wish for a 4-seater. But what I do now to compensate actually results in much better quality time with the family. Every weekend I pick one person, and we work out the mini-adventure. Maybe pancake breakfast somewhere or some aerobatics or a longer trip to a show. I try to rotate my wife and each of the two kids pretty evenly in the cockpit, and the one:eek:ne time that I get with each family member is really of the highest quality. It might seem counter-intuitive, but they are getting better access to me, and they are all logging more hours than they ever did in my spam can.

I'll also note that I built my airplane intentionally during the early years of marriage and kids. Some people wait it out with the 'family first' argument, but to me having the plane for their childhood was the point. Me and the mrs hit a few bumps during the build, but now she has me 1:1 in the plane from time to time on a neat trip of her choosings, and we have taken many opportunities to get away together.
 
Geico266 said:
You think you are having regrets now? My best advice to you is RUN! Leave her at the alter! Get cold feet, flu, tonsillitis, break a leg, tell her you want a prenup, what ever it takes, but DO NOT DO IT! Are you nuts?

RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!


Then you will only need a 2 seater. :p



another one bites the dust..................... Congrats on the marriage, somehow I know you'll go through with it. ;)

"Better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all." :cool:
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-- Bingo! --
 
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but what if I have a kid?

Sounds like you have about 9 months from this weekend to get the engine and finish kit ordered.
__________________
Jeff Bloomquist

Not so fast...I've been told that the first one can come anytime, but the second one usually takes 9 months.

Mark
 
NO!

It's the third one who comes anytime, especially if you we not planning well!:eek:

Ask me how I know.

David
 
Daniel,

I haven't read all of the replies to your thread, but I have been in your shoes....

The truth is that your answer doesn't exist on =VAF=. It really exist with your soon-to-be wife.

When I started thinking about building an airplane, I wanted to build an RV-7. I was convinced it was the airplane for me.

Sara had a different idea. She said, "If you're going to build an airplane, it's going to have seats for kids."

First - This meant she was fully supportive of me building an airplane.
Second - This meant she had to agree to the difference in cost between an RV-7 and RV-10.

Listening to her advice was the best thing I could have done. We now have a 4 month old son and if I weren't building a -10, I'd be sick.

The most important part is to keep her on board with the project. If that means trading the current project for -10, then so be it. But you've got to have her on board....

Phil
 
Regrets? I've had a few, but then again...

The BEST advice I can give is that this is the WORST place to get advice! ;)

OK, as a project planner here are some tips:

First, in EVERY project, there is a time where you ask "What the heck am I doing??? What was I thinking????"

The key to a successful completion, is to get over that, and move on. This is true whether you are building a plane, restoring a bathroom or even getting married!

Next remember, the building is part of the process. My guess is that your partner is marrying you because of the kind of person you are, and you are partially that way because you make stuff with your hands. You build, and say "See that? I did that!" Block who you are, and the person that married you may not like who you have become. I assume you are building because you like to build, not because someone said you had to do it, or you were trying to save money. :eek:

Finally be SURE everyone understands the cost in terms of money and time. Given where you are in the build process, I'll bet you both have the idea of where this can go.

Remember: If it eats or has wheels, it is not an investment.

Dkb
 
Building and Marriage

What time and where in LR is the wedding? My invite must have gotten lost!
 
Buy the Mooney

Buy the Mooney. Finish your RV over time. Get flying and keep flying. I have a four seater Piper Dakota to fly. It makes building less stressful and less urgent.
 
What if you have a kid?

Demonstrate to them that there is a goal, and if you are persistent about it, you can achieve it.
That working together can be fun.
That everyone makes mistakes.
Shared mistakes and misery are diminished.
Shared success and triumph are increased.

There are many lessons you can share, and an amazing bond to be built, while you build something together.

On a build-faster note, little fingers put little rivets in little holes in the skin, and tape them down for back riveting much faster than I can do it.

I don't let mine participate in the envirnomental hazards, but they've helped with just about everything else.

and never, ever be too busy to stop for a play break. You'll need them too.

My oldest should be using a manual riveter this winter :)
 
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