HFS

HFS

Well Known Member
Got this from someone else, and as a privately owned (and licensed since 1949 (92CA)) airport operator I was interested to see that it will no longer be shown on VFR Sectionals after the November issue.

There may or may not be others of you out there this will affect - just thought I would bring it to your attention for your interest.

Thx - HFS

I apologize for the orientation of the pic - I tried (several times) to right it, but couldn't make it work - sorry.
 

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Hmmmm…I hadn’t seen that, and I wonder what it really means? 92CA is still on the “sectional” view in Foreflight, and anyways, I think it certainly has “Landmark value” - at least for you and me! ;)
 
Dave,
This is a big deal right now with the backcountry community. Many folks are trying to get AOPA and EAA engaged. Removing the awareness to all those potential emergency fields and removing the awareness of operations from the charts is going backwards in progress.

Who decides what is a landmark value?
 
FAA.....what direction....?

AX-O said:
Dave,
This is a big deal right now with the backcountry community. Many folks are trying to get AOPA and EAA engaged. Removing the awareness to all those potential emergency fields and removing the awareness of operations from the charts is going backwards in progress. Who decides what is a landmark value?
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Agreed.

What??? FAA going BACKWARDS?? How unlike them! Aren't they here to help? :confused::confused:

Oh, yeah: if the airlines don't need to know about these strips, no one does, right? I forgot.....:mad::mad::mad:
 
I would think that cross country glider pilots would be interested in this too.

AX-O said:
Dave,
This is a big deal right now with the backcountry community. Many folks are trying to get AOPA and EAA engaged. Removing the awareness to all those potential emergency fields and removing the awareness of operations from the charts is going backwards in progress.

Who decides what is a landmark value?
Click to expand...
 
AX-O said:
Dave,
This is a big deal right now with the backcountry community. Many folks are trying to get AOPA and EAA engaged. Removing the awareness to all those potential emergency fields and removing the awareness of operations from the charts is going backwards in progress.

Who decides what is a landmark value?
Click to expand...

That was what I thought when I read this. In an engine out scenario, I would REALLY like to quickly know where ALL landing strips are. It is unclear if this is limited to just paper charts. I could care less what is on those but want it on the digital versions.
 
Charting Notice

It is listed to: Users of VFR Aeronautical Charts

Sounds like a charting change for Sectionals.

HFS
 
If the FAA wants to start de-cluttering the VFR chart, I can give them a long list of very useless items written over very useful information.

The chart has got to the point where it is USELESS unless you can zoom in.

Another move by the gov't, opposite of common sense..... to be expected!!!

Click on pic to rotate...
 

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I'm hoping G3Xpert can chime in and let us know if Garmin will be following suite. I know they get a lot of their info from the FAA, so I'm curious to see how it's going to affect the NAV databases.
 
Straight out of the Aeronautical Charting Forum, a cabal of non-pilot FAA bureaucrats and NBAA/ airline pilots that don't give a rip about relying on a Sectional chart to fly a little airplane by pilotage.
Sad, but not surprising.
 
Garmin and ForeFlight

So I wonder what Garmin and ForeFlight will do? If this only affects the paper charts, than it probably won’t be that big if a deal.
 
Folks, this is an issue for our alphabets, It's why we pay the dues. Let's all register our concern with somebody who can pick up the phone and talk to the right people.

Make a note...tomorrow, call the AOPA and the EAA. Or send an email tonight.
 
Visual reporting

AX-O said:
Dave,
This is a big deal right now with the backcountry community. Many folks are trying to get AOPA and EAA engaged. Removing the awareness to all those potential emergency fields and removing the awareness of operations from the charts is going backwards in progress.

Who decides what is a landmark value?
Click to expand...


I believe they mean those airports that happen to be also used as a visual reporting point around class B and C airspace. the waypoint usually starts with VP. Although Halfmoon Bay (HAF) is not private it’s an example of a visual reporting point (landmark.)

EDIT perhaps SILVERDALE APEX AIRPARK (8W5) west of Seattle is a better example
 
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EAA "on it!"

HFS said:
Got this from someone else, and as a privately owned (and licensed since 1949 (92CA)) airport operator I was interested to see that it will no longer be shown on VFR Sectionals after the November issue.

There may or may not be others of you out there this will affect - just thought I would bring it to your attention for your interest.

Thx - HFS

I apologize for the orientation of the pic - I tried (several times) to right it, but couldn't make it work - sorry.
Click to expand...

Spoke to the head of the Government Relations team at EAA.

The staff is aggressively (my words) "ON IT!" (their words).

They know who to reach out to about this and are doing so.
 
EAA/AOPA vs FAA (who is here to help us....)

jclark said:
Spoke to the head of the Government Relations team at EAA.
The staff is aggressively (my words) "ON IT!" (their words).
They know who to reach out to about this and are doing so.
Click to expand...

Why I am a proud member of both of those organizations. I would not know where to start; they do and DO!

FAA: We're not happy until you're not happy.....:mad:
 
I'd be curious about the numbers for private airport emergency landings being reported. Maybe it is a very low number?
 
I spent an hour today trying to drill down into the information available online from the FAA about how these "Charting Notices" come about.

Here's a summary of the link navigation to get to the chart notices

FAA.gov>Air Traffic>Flight Information>Aeronautical Information Services>Alerts/Notices.

This brings you to a table of recent "Safety Alerts and Charting Notices". There's no discussion. Just a table with links to PDF files.

Each of these entries are coded with a hyphenated number and a series of capital letters (i.e. 22-03 VIS Charting Notice). So, I thought maybe that would link back to a docket containing meeting minutes and supporting data like ADs do. I looked and could not find anything like that.

What I did find on the left hand side of this page is a link to "Aeronautical Charting Meeting." This page provides links to the Aeronautical Charting Group Meeting minutes, open and closed issues (RDs?) and a table of past meeting minutes.

I've been searching through each of the (RD) "Issues" (open and closed) and meeting minutes and have yet to find anything mentioning the subect of either change to charting of private airports or the change to the depiction of foriegn data.

So, its really a mystery (to me anyway) as to when and why these decisions were made.
 
Just emailed requests to change this to my representative and both state senators.

Thanks, David, for bringing it to our attention.

I hope that someone is also contacting EAA and AOPA.

Dave
 
N804RV said:
I spent an hour today trying to drill down into the information available online from the FAA about how these "Charting Notices" come about.

Here's a summary of the link navigation to get to the chart notices

FAA.gov>Air Traffic>Flight Information>Aeronautical Information Services>Alerts/Notices.

This brings you to a table of recent "Safety Alerts and Charting Notices". There's no discussion. Just a table with links to PDF files.

Each of these entries are coded with a hyphenated number and a series of capital letters (i.e. 22-03 VIS Charting Notice). So, I thought maybe that would link back to a docket containing meeting minutes and supporting data like ADs do. I looked and could not find anything like that.

What I did find on the left hand side of this page is a link to "Aeronautical Charting Meeting." This page provides links to the Aeronautical Charting Group Meeting minutes, open and closed issues (RDs?) and a table of past meeting minutes.

I've been searching through each of the (RD) "Issues" (open and closed) and meeting minutes and have yet to find anything mentioning the subect of either change to charting of private airports or the change to the depiction of foriegn data.

So, its really a mystery (to me anyway) as to when and why these decisions were made.
Click to expand...

Went through the same drill, could not find any reference to the charting notice in any meeting minutes, open or closed Issues. How it became final and became a notice is a mystery.
 
David Paule said:
Just emailed requests to change this to my representative and both state senators.

Thanks, David, for bringing it to our attention.

I hope that someone is also contacting EAA and AOPA.

Dave
Click to expand...

Read the whole thread David - check post #16……
 
Ironflight said:
Hmmmm…I hadn’t seen that, and I wonder what it really means? 92CA is still on the “sectional” view in Foreflight, and anyways, I think it certainly has “Landmark value” - at least for you and me! ;)
Click to expand...

I think any charted airport, grass strip, or clearing in the trees is a landmark for VFR pilots. We are trained to look for ground references that match the chart and I/we gravitate to airports as the primary landmark to recognize. They are much more distinguishable than many of the other man-made features that are called out on a VFR sectional.
 
FAA Clarifies Charting Notice on Private Airports

FAA updated release 1.10.2023

Responding to community concern, the FAA released a follow-on notice Tuesday, clarifying that the only anticipated change was the removal of the term “emergency” from the chart legend in reference to private airports. The FAA determines whether to chart private airports based on “landmark value,” and these criteria are staying the same as those used before the September notice. The updated notice concludes that “aeronautical charts users should not see a significant change to private airports depicted on VFR charts.” - Source EAA
 
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