R

RVWanabe

Member
Hello group.

Today, I went to get my BFR to a different place than I normally go. They held a ground school for four of us. There were a lot of things discussed. Many of them I did not know. The ground school did not cover experimentals. If the experimental requirements are any thing close to general aviation you will be surprised. I put these questions to the group. These questions relate to experimentals not general aviation.
I bet manyt of us don?t have all the stuff needed for the plane or the pilot.

QUESTIONS (for experimentals only)
1. Do you know what things the PLANE has to have to be legal for flight? Day & night. For ABCDEG airspace.
2. Do you know what things the PILOT has to have to be legal for flight? Day & night. For ABCDEG airspace.

Once all these questions are answered, should the site save them in a special file for all to reference?

Thanks, Ivan from Sugar Land, Texas.
 
Really just about everything is similiar for legal flight for pilot and plane. The experimental plane must have experimental labels.
 
BTW, Experimentals are "general aviation".

The only odd thing about Experimentals is that there are no endorsements such as high performance, complex, and/or tail wheel required, unless they are written in the aircraft?s operating limitations.

I did not know this until my FAA inspector pointed it out to me and made sure I had my TW endorsement.
 
"Stuff?"

I'm with Todd on this, it is rather simple. Assuming that the experimental aircraft has finished Phase 1 and has the proper equipment and wording in the Opps Specs, you are good to go. For the pilot, same story, properly rated for what you want to do. Things like an instrument rating to fly in Class A or a sign-off to fly in Class B on a Student Pilot License are no different in an experimental or certified aircraft.

So what did they teach you that was so surprising??

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Question for Mel (or another FAA-knowledgeable person) - do we as experimental flyers need a high-altitude signoff before flight about any given flight level?
 
O.K., I'll take a guess.

Q1. ARROW, for the paperwork, IIRC. Oil pressure gauge, fuel gauge, compass, airspeed and (?) altimeter.

Q2. Pilot Cert, medical, current BFR.

Above are for day VFR minimums.
 
High Altitudes

airguy said:
Question for Mel (or another FAA-knowledgeable person) - do we as experimental flyers need a high-altitude signoff before flight about any given flight level?
Click to expand...

A High Altitude Endorsement is required over FL250 (25000 feet.) Interestingly the regulation says "pressurized aircraft" but if you are planning on anything in the flight levels I would strongly recommend the training. Bruce Bohannan not withstanding, I really don't think you want to be anywhere near FL250 in an RV!

Here is an Advisory Circular on the subject:
http://tinyurl.com/5vjvoz

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Oplims...

......must be carried aboard experimental AB aircraft as well as airworthiness and registration certificates,

Regards,
 
Mike S said:
Oil pressure gauge, fuel gauge, compass, airspeed and (?) altimeter.
Above are for day VFR minimums.
Click to expand...
These requirements come from 91.205 which applies only to "Standard" certificated aircraft. 91.205 does apply to amateur-builts for night and IFR operations per your operating limitations.
 
John Clark said:
A High Altitude Endorsement is required over FL250 (25000 feet.) Interestingly the regulation says "pressurized aircraft" but if you are planning on anything in the flight levels I would strongly recommend the training. Bruce Bohannan not withstanding, I really don't think you want to be anywhere near FL250 in an RV!

Here is an Advisory Circular on the subject:
http://tinyurl.com/5vjvoz

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
Click to expand...

That was my understanding, that it would not apply to an unpressurized aircraft. Granted, you're tickling the dragons tail in any case - just curious about the paper requirements for actually doing it.
 
Dragon's tail

airguy said:
That was my understanding, that it would not apply to an unpressurized aircraft. Granted, you're tickling the dragons tail in any case - just curious about the paper requirements for actually doing it.
Click to expand...

I suspect that the FAR was written with a couple of assumptions. First, very few people go into the flight levels in an unpressurized aircraft. Second, and more importantly, a decompression in a pressurized aircraft is a bigger deal than just being at a high altitude.

Besides, it is really cold up there! :cool:

John Clark ATP, CFI
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Mike S said:
Q1. ARROW, for the paperwork, IIRC. Oil pressure gauge, fuel gauge, compass, airspeed and (?) altimeter.

Q2. Pilot Cert, medical, current BFR.

Above are for day VFR minimums.
Click to expand...

Ok, don't forget about the 3 stop and g's within, ok I forgot, what is it 90days to carry passengers. Same go's for at night if you want to carry pass. but than again, that is the same as with a certified thingy.

I also believe that the only difference is that we have to have that wording on the dash and the experimental on the aircraft. Oh! and of course the biggy is we spend way less money to keep things current on the aircraft.
 
John Clark said:
I'm with Todd on this, it is rather simple. Assuming that the experimental aircraft has finished Phase 1 and has the proper equipment and wording in the Opps Specs, you are good to go. For the pilot, same story, properly rated for what you want to do. Things like an instrument rating to fly in Class A or a sign-off to fly in Class B on a Student Pilot License are no different in an experimental or certified aircraft.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, section 61.31 "Type rating requirements, additional training, and authorization requirements" does not apply to an experimental when operated solo:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.20&idno=14

" (k) Exceptions. (1) This section does not require a category and class rating for aircraft not type-certificated as airplanes, rotorcraft, gliders, lighter-than-air aircraft, powered-lifts, powered parachutes, or weight-shift-control aircraft.

(2) The rating limitations of this section do not apply to?
[...]
(iii) The holder of a pilot certificate when operating an aircraft under the authority of?

(A) A provisional type certificate; or

(B) An experimental certificate, unless the operation involves carrying a passenger;"

So if I read the regs correctly, a PIC may operate a complex, pressurized, or tailwheel experimental aircraft solo without holding the appropriate ratings.
 
JimLogajan said:
As I understand it, section 61.31 "Type rating requirements, additional training, and authorization requirements" does not apply to an experimental when operated solo:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.20&idno=14

" (k) Exceptions. (1) This section does not require a category and class rating for aircraft not type-certificated as airplanes, rotorcraft, gliders, lighter-than-air aircraft, powered-lifts, powered parachutes, or weight-shift-control aircraft.

(2) The rating limitations of this section do not apply to?
[...]
(iii) The holder of a pilot certificate when operating an aircraft under the authority of?

(A) A provisional type certificate; or

(B) An experimental certificate, unless the operation involves carrying a passenger;"

So if I read the regs correctly, a PIC may operate a complex, pressurized, or tailwheel experimental aircraft solo without holding the appropriate ratings.
Click to expand...

Thanks for finding the reg. That's why I put "just about everything". I thought you didn't need a license/rating to fly any experimental solo but I just wasn't 100% sure.
 
Licenses and ratings..

TSwezey said:
Thanks for finding the reg. That's why I put "just about everything". I thought you didn't need a license/rating to fly any experimental solo but I just wasn't 100% sure.
Click to expand...

Careful, it says a rating is not needed. A "license" (certificate) is still required.

(k) Exceptions.
[(1) This section does not require a category and class rating for aircraft not type certificated as airplanes, rotorcraft, gliders, lighter-than-air aircraft, powered-lifts, powered parachutes, or weight-shift-control aircraft.]
(2) The rating limitations of this section do not apply to--
(i) An applicant when taking a practical test given by an examiner;
(ii) The holder of a student pilot certificate; --
[(iii) The holder of a pilot certificate when operating an aircraft under the authority of--
(A) A provisional type certificate; or
(B) An experimental certificate, unless the operation involves carrying a passenger;]
(iv) The holder of a pilot certificate with a lighter-than-air category rating when operating a balloon;
(v) The holder of a recreational pilot certificate operating under the provisions of Sec. 61.101(h); or
[(vi) The holder of a sport pilot certificate when operating a light-sport aircraft.]

John Clark
FAAST Team Member
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
John Clark said:
Careful, it says a rating is not needed. A "license" (certificate) is still required.

(k) Exceptions.
[(1) This section does not require a category and class rating for aircraft not type certificated as airplanes, rotorcraft, gliders, lighter-than-air aircraft, powered-lifts, powered parachutes, or weight-shift-control aircraft.]
(2) The rating limitations of this section do not apply to--
(i) An applicant when taking a practical test given by an examiner;
(ii) The holder of a student pilot certificate; --
[(iii) The holder of a pilot certificate when operating an aircraft under the authority of--
(A) A provisional type certificate; or
(B) An experimental certificate, unless the operation involves carrying a passenger;]
(iv) The holder of a pilot certificate with a lighter-than-air category rating when operating a balloon;
(v) The holder of a recreational pilot certificate operating under the provisions of Sec. 61.101(h); or
[(vi) The holder of a sport pilot certificate when operating a light-sport aircraft.]

John Clark
FAAST Team Member
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
Click to expand...

Quite right. For example, I know of a couple pilots who flew an experimental airship even though neither had an airship rating:

http://www.personalblimp.com/

They eventually requested, and got, a waiver from the FAA to take passengers on their hot-air airship. They presumably got the waiver because they convinced the FAA that its existing regulations for airships generally weren't applicable to the unique flying characteristics of their airship.

(As an aside, I happen to think "go slow and linger" experimental airships are a nice complement to "go fast and get there" aircraft like RVs. There is now a "Experimental and Ultralight Balloons and Airships" organization, http://www.xlta.org/ that attempts to make up for what Dan Nachbar sees as "The Mystery of the Missing 2%": http://www.xlta.org/background.html )
 
Check your Airworthiness Certificate conditions. Mine, issued last year. specifically requires the proper rating (sorry, don't have a copy here to quote) during Phase II flight, but not during Phase I.

I suspect it's the FAA's way to close the hole in the regs. Or, you're allowed to kill yourself, but not passengers!
 
Yup!

ddurakovich said:
Check your Airworthiness Certificate conditions. Mine, issued last year. specifically requires the proper rating (sorry, don't have a copy here to quote) during Phase II flight, but not during Phase I.

I suspect it's the FAA's way to close the hole in the regs. Or, you're allowed to kill yourself, but not passengers!
Click to expand...

In my Operating Limitations it says "Day/night VFR/IFR authorized when the aircraft is properly equipped and certified in accordance with FAR 91.205, and the pilot is appropriately rated and current." Rather clear language to me. Also the document must be carried in the airplane and (I love this!) ..."and shall be accessable to the pilot at all times" Just in case you need a little light reading, I guess :)

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Member
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
John Clark said:
In my Operating Limitations it says "Day/night VFR/IFR authorized when the aircraft is properly equipped and certified in accordance with FAR 91.205, and the pilot is appropriately rated and current." Rather clear language to me. Also the document must be carried in the airplane and (I love this!) ..."and shall be accessable to the pilot at all times" Just in case you need a little light reading, I guess :)
Click to expand...

What does "certified" mean??
 
Off the top of my head...

pitot/static and encoder certified. A registration and airworthiness certificate.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Group...

What about an ELT, do you ever need a radio, do you need a transponder (what kind), do you need endorsements (tail dragger, complex, high performance etc..),where are your endorsements recorded....do you need that, what about lights, what if plane is flown at night, what if you made major changes (whether during phase 1 or after phase 1), what about if you have or don't have an electrical system, what if you want to carry a passenger & have not flown for 90 days....what if it is night & you want to fly a passenger & have not flown night for 90 days, what about your BFR...where do you keep it recorded, what about your medical...can it be a copy, what if you are flying with a passenger...land & it turns dark & you have not flown night for 90 days, can you keep a copy, not the original, of your medical in the plane, do you need charts, can the charts be copies from the internet? These are some of the questions I can come up with after my ground school. Note I did not keep notes & this is from memory...my memory is not good....I am sure I forgot some things
What if you want to enter A airspace or B or C what do you need, what does your plane need?
Is this a bad topic....should I abandon it?

Thanks, Ivan from Sugar Land, Texas
 
Search function

Ivan, They are all good topics but every one of them has been covered in detail on this forum. Just pick one, click search, and enter it. For more detail on the regulations go to www.faa.gov and do a search there.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
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