boomer

boomer

Well Known Member
First post after quite a bit of lurking, so let me introduce myself. I don't own an RV, but am considering it. Flew Air Force jets (F-4's & F-111's) for over 20 years, but haven't flown anything for about 15 years. When I retired there wasn't anything that I was interested in flying that I could afford, but now a RV-8 is a distinct possibility. No general aviation flying since the early 70's, so I am not at all knowledgeable on recips. Please be kind. :)

Anyway, here are my first questions. (Apologies in advance if I've missed a FAQ or something. Just point me in the right direction).

1. In the FAR's (91.319) it states that experimental aircraft are limited to day VFR unless specifically authorized. Yet, I see IFR cockpits, landing lights, etc. Is it legal to fly night/IFR in an RV?

2. I understand that the builder (i.e. me) of an experimental does his own periodic inspections, but who does these if I buy an RV built by someone else?

Thanks for any help. This is a good forum, and I've learned a lot.

-John
 
The answer to your first question is covered in the aircraft's operating limits, which are issued by the DAR or FAA inspector. The modern version says something to the effect of "Limited to Day VFR operations unless properly equipped." In essence, if you have the right equipment in your experimental, you can fly night and IFR.

If you purchase an aircraft with the older limitations which don't include "unless properly equipped", the local FSDO will reissue your limitations if you send them a letter requesting an update.

If you build an aircraft and are issued the repairman's certificate, you can do all of the work on the aircraft AND conduct your own "condition inspection", which is the equivalent to an "Annual inspection". If you don't hold the repairman's certificate for your airplane, you'll have to get an IA or A&P to do the condition inspection, but you can perform any other work on the aircraft.
 
Welcome!

Welcome aboard - strap your harness on tight, because you're about to enjoy one heck of a ride!

Easy answers....

1) Operations Limitations are usually written to say that the aircraft is limited to "Day VFR, unless properly equipped per FAR XXX for IFR and night. AS long as you properly equip it, you're good to go - and I use IFR a lot in my glass-cockpit -8.

2) If you buy a completed experimental, you can do all maintenance, but the annual condition inspection has to be signed off by an A&P.

Hope to see you at a Texas fly-in!

Paul
 
boomer said:
...

1. In the FAR's (91.319) it states that experimental aircraft are limited to day VFR unless specifically authorized. Yet, I see IFR cockpits, landing lights, etc. Is it legal to fly night/IFR in an RV?
Click to expand...

John, experimental amateur built aircraft are bound by the operating limitations that are issued by the FAA or designated inspector, who inspects the aircraft initially. This is where night and IFR are allowed if properly equipped. I suppose that some operating limitations do not allow night and IFR, but this would not be typical for an RV. As you said, many are legally operated night and IFR

2. I understand that the builder (i.e. me) of an experimental does his own periodic inspections, but who does these if I buy an RV built by someone else?
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Any A&P mechanic.
 
Condition Inspections

All the above is true. I just wanted to make a point on the condition inspection if you purchase a finished airplane. The A&P is needed for the inspection and log entry. You can do all he MX work and the "open and close" for the inspection.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
John Clark said:
All the above is true. I just wanted to make a point on the condition inspection if you purchase a finished airplane. The A&P is needed for the inspection and log entry. You can do all he MX work and the "open and close" for the inspection.
Click to expand...

To expand on this a little further...

You could purchase an RV that has a recently completed condition inspection, wreck it during your flight home after the purchase, and then totally rebuild it and sign it off as airworthy using your pilot certificate # and go fly it (as long as you completed the repairs before the next condition inspection was due).

Note: You could do this legally, but I would highly discourage it unless you got lots of mentoring from someone that is familiar with the model you were working on.

I was just mentioning it as an example of how lenient the rules are.

As a side note... I believe that there are some RV owners who have purchased completed airplanes that sometimes take on a little more than they should, considering they did not build the airplane and they have no background in aircraft maintenance.

I always suggest that non builder owners have someone look over there shoulder or at the very least check there work when they are done, when they are doing something new on the airplane for the first time.
That's what builders groups and EAA chapters are for.

Then, there is that few that should just stand back and watch someone else do it :rolleyes:
 
Scott,
One very tiny correction. He could not sign it off as "airworthy". The definition of airworthy is to "meet it's type certificate". Since it has no type certificate, he would sign it off as "in a condition for safe operation".
I know it's picky, but I couldn't resist.
 
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Got Me...

Mel said:
Scott,
One very tiny correction. He could not sign it off as "airworthy". The definition of airworthy is to "meet it's type certificate". Since it has no type certificate, he would sign it off as "in a condition for safe operation".
I know ti's picky, but I couldn't resist.
Click to expand...

Mel is exactly correct.
In fact the typically issued operating limitations direct the signeee to sign off the condition inspecton the same way.

The RV's that we fly are not "airworthy",

They are just safe for operation in the air. :D
 
Mel said:
Scott,
One very tiny correction. He could not sign it off as "airworthy". The definition of airworthy is to "meet it's type certificate". Since it has no type certificate, he would sign it off as "in a condition for safe operation".
I know ti's picky, but I couldn't resist.
Click to expand...
Mel, I know IT'S picky, but I just couldn't resist... :D :D
 
LET"S GET BOOMER A RIDE!!

boomer said:
First post after quite a bit of lurking, so let me introduce myself. I don't own an RV, but am considering it. Flew Air Force jets (F-4's & F-111's) for over 20 years, but haven't flown anything for about 15 years.
A RV-8 is a distinct possibility. No general aviation flying since the early 70's, so I am not at all knowledgeable on recips. Please be kind. :)

Thanks for any help. This is a good forum, and I've learned a lot.

-John
Click to expand...
Is anyone with a RV8 that live near Ladonia Texas willing to give this guy a $65,000.00 ride that will send him on a journey of 1-3 years sleepless nights. Or the purchase of an "8" ready to go! and looking for that next drop of 100LL. :D
 
Touche'

gasman said:
Mel, I know IT'S picky, but I just couldn't resist... :D :D
Click to expand...
Or however you spell "Touche'"
This is French and I never claimed to know French. I have enough trouble with English; but you already knew that.
 
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SPELL CHECKER...PLEASE

Mel said:
Or however you spell "Touche'"
Click to expand...
Maybe ti's time to ask DOUG for a "spell checker" for US challanged pliots and the ones that just have BIG fingers and never learned to type....ME!!! It would be worth another buck or so a year..... :cool: Right guys?
 
gasman said:
Maybe ti's time to ask DOUG for a "spell checker" for US challanged pliots and the ones that just have BIG fingers and never learned to type....ME!!! It would be worth another buck or so a year..... :cool: Right guys?
Click to expand...

I use the tool bar that is down loadable free from google.
It adds on as another tool bar below the Internet exploder tool bar.
It has a spell checker that will check any text on the page being currently viewed.

I don't know if it works with other browser programs but I imagine they have one for all of the popular ones
 
gasman said:
Maybe ti's time to ask DOUG for a "spell checker" for US challanged pliots and the ones that just have BIG fingers and never learned to type....ME!!! It would be worth another buck or so a year..... :cool: Right guys?
Click to expand...
Or you could install the Firefox browser (a much better browser than Internet Explorer, IMHO). It has built-in spell checking and I use it exclusively.
http://www.firefox.org.
 
RV10Pilot said:
I use Firefox exclusively, but where is the spell checker?
Click to expand...

It's built-in...you don't need to run anything. It does the whole ms-word style dotted underlining thing that spell checks as you type. If it underlines a word you can right-click on the word for suggested spellings. By default it will only spell check multi-line input boxes (like the edit box in the forums), but you could right-click on any text box and select "Spell check this field" and it will do it for you. Very handy indeed and works in every site and you don't have the google toolbar taking up valuable screen real estate.

This was a fairly recent add-on (within the last 1.5 years or so I guess) so if you don't have it install the latest browser. I'm running 2.0.0.3.

Best,
Jamie
 
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gasman said:
Is anyone with a RV8 that live near Ladonia Texas willing to give this guy a $65,000.00 ride that will send him on a journey of 1-3 years sleepless nights. Or the purchase of an "8" ready to go! and looking for that next drop of 100LL. :D
Click to expand...

Now that's the best idea I've seen on this forum. :) For those who don't know, Ladonia is in NE Tx, about 80 miles NE of Dallas.

Thanks to everyone for all the good info. The main reason I asked about buying was really about resale value. I couldn't afford a new aircraft which seem to go around $95-105K asking price. However, at age 59 it would be nice to build one for $65k and know that it was worth more than that if I need to sell. (Good selling point to the spouse, also!)

-John
 
It would be a stretch

to build an IFR machine for 65k...At least using a QB and a GNS430.

I got about 85k in my 7a with the above spec, glass panel and trutrak autopilots, IO360 C/S prop

Might get close if you found a half lifed engine and maybe a fixed pitch (sensinech) prop...Going slowbuild would save some too. Tools are spendy but people are generous...:)

Frank 7a
 
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