[Rand]

Can someone give me the basic info on this? Meaning what are the rules and is it allowed and so on. I have heard conflicting info.

 

[AJ85WA]

Owner only

You can if

1- You own the aircraft and it is yourself getting trained
2- Can find an instructor happy to teach in one
3- Aircraft is capable of training required ie -NVFR/IFR etc etc

 

[BobTurner]

You can if

1- You own the aircraft and it is yourself getting trained
2- Can find an instructor happy to teach in one
3- Aircraft is capable of training required ie -NVFR/IFR etc etc

1. Strictly speaking you do not have to own the aircraft, but it is illegal to pay (rent) for its use. A friend could lend you his plane for free; that would take a really good friend!
4. In the US the designated examiners have the option to decline to fly in an EAB, but that's usually not an issue.

 

[Alex Edwards]

You can if

1- You own the aircraft and it is yourself getting trained
2- Can find an instructor happy to teach in one
3- Aircraft is capable of training required ie -NVFR/IFR etc etc

I think that these are the rules in Australia. The USA is slightly different in that you don't need to be the owner but no money can change hands for the plane hire.

 

[N941WR]

You can pay the CFI for their time but you can't rent the airplane. (Just clarifying the comments above.)

In the US there is no IFR or night requirement for the plane. It just means you can't train at night or in IFR conditions without that equipment. (The plane I trained for my PPL in was night equipped not set up for IFR flight. Yet, we did a lot of hood work in that little 152.)

Most (all?) CFI's will want dual controls, including rudder peddles, brakes and engine controls. In some tandem aircraft this can be a challenge.

 

[TS Flightlines]

my .02. Thats one of the reasons I decided to build a RV7. I could get my license in it, and it would already be familiar. Several CFI's have already told me they would instruct in the plane. Having flown (alot) in Lee's Rocket and Dennis' 8, I'm pretty familiar with some of the speeds. Flew some in a Valor A22 (LSA).
So---when the time comes, either I can continue to learn in the 7, or fly off time myself.
Tom

 

[wirejock]

Welcome

Welcome Brian.
It looks like you're interested in the 9. It should be a nice training platform.
I would recommend a ride to be sure.

 

[pierre smith]

There's a L.O.D.A.

If you're already a licensed pilot, you can get transition training from one of several instructors who own RV's and have a Letter Of Deviation Authority. This allows them to charge for the use of the airplane and their time.

Best,

 

[Rand]

Thanks for explaining everything guys. Yeah wirejock I think the 9a seems to fit the bill best for what I am looking for. Though the 14 seems like it might as well. Just like the characteristics more of the 9 still though. I actually have always wanted to build a kit plane,for as long as I can remember anyways. I even worked for glasair for quite a while to become familiar with more of it,lol. Love the sportsman but they are insanely expensive.

 

[Rand]

Ts flightlines yeah I was thinking of doing something similar obviously. My cfi will definitely instruct me in it. He loves RVs. I just need to decide if I want to wait until I am done building before getting my ppl. I am going to get my cfi. Which yes I know takes a lot to get there. So kind of thinking I will start my ppl while building. Not sure totally yet.

 

[Raymo]

my .02. Thats one of the reasons I decided to build a RV7. I could get my license in it, and it would already be familiar. Several CFI's have already told me they would instruct in the plane. Having flown (alot) in Lee's Rocket and Dennis' 8, I'm pretty familiar with some of the speeds. Flew some in a Valor A22 (LSA).
So---when the time comes, either I can continue to learn in the 7, or fly off time myself.
Tom

To build or to fly, that is the question. I opted to fly first - mostly because building would take so long. Soon after I started training, I purchased the 66 Cherokee 140, which I leased to the school.

The FAA and insurance companies make it very difficult to share an airplane with friends who you want to help get their rating. I'd gladly let Tom (TS Flightlines) use my Cherokee and just pay for gas but my insurer will raise my rates and require Tom be named on my policy, along with the CFI. BUT, since the airplane is not in a flight school, the CFI is not covered to perform training unless he flies with me, the owner.

The Cherokee will either be sold or I'll create a flying club with it - if I can find enough people to join. This seems to be the best route to allowing more than one person fly and train - only because the club members are essentially all owners as well.

 

[Rand]

Ray could Tom get his own insurance? I mean the insurance you can get as a flight student that covers the aircraft and so on. Or would that not make a difference?

 

[Raymo]

Ray could Tom get his own insurance? I mean the insurance you can get as a flight student that covers the aircraft and so on. Or would that not make a difference?

Rental insurance is available but the airplane is not longer leased to the school so it is not legal for him to rent.

Whether he could purchase his own insurance is a good question. I do not know.

Most insurance companies have something called Open Pilot Warranty or Open Pilot Clause, which covers the airplane if any pilot with more than 300 hours total and more than 10 hours in the make and model aircraft. The catch is that this covers the airplane if it is damaged but the insurance company has the right to go after the OPW pilot for the entire cost of repair.

Lots to read on the topic, which I have done.

Here is an article that describes the OPW/OPC.

 

[BobTurner]

The least costly (not cheap) option is to get Tom and tbe CFI listed as named insureds on your policy. Give your company a call to check the cost.
You are correct about open pilot clauses. You do not want to be in a position of having to testify in court against your friend (which the policy requires).

 

[BobTurner]

Most (all?) CFI's will want dual controls, including rudder peddles, brakes and engine controls. .

This is also an FAR requirement.

 

[jrs14855]

Controls

Where the pilots are seated side by side there is a lot of leeway. Throw over yokes as on Bonanza still acceptable. No requirement for dual engine controls IF the single control is accessable to the Instructor.
I have never found a requirement for dual brakes. I have done transition training in aircraft with no brakes on right side. Depending on the trainee's experience I might want to see the trainee fly from the right seat for several hours in the case of no right brakes.
Of course there is also no requirements for ANY brakes on some aircraft, many of the older antiques had no brakes.
Years ago I flew for 20 hours or so in a early Piper J3 that had no brakes installed. Brakes did not become standard on the J3 until sometime in the 39-40 timeframe.

 

[Raymo]

The least costly (not cheap) option is to get Tom and tbe CFI listed as named insureds on your policy. Give your company a call to check the cost.
You are correct about open pilot clauses. You do not want to be in a position of having to testify in court against your friend (which the policy requires).

I already checked for my CFI who was going to provide transition training in my Cherokee for fresh PPL (not me). They said he was not covered to act as CFI even though he was named on my policy at the time.

 

[TS Flightlines]

Ray and i have discussed this alittle---since we are building RV's at the same airport. I had a deal with the aformentioned flight school to trade up to solo time for hoses for their A22---yep they got the hoses-- and i have ---well you get the idea. I may just take some time this winter and do it all at once.
There is a Rocket in the hangar-------naaa better not!

 

[BobTurner]

Where the pilots are seated side by side there is a lot of leeway. Throw over yokes as on Bonanza still acceptable. No requirement for dual engine controls IF the single control is accessable to the Instructor.
I have never found a requirement for dual brakes.
e.

Throw over yokes are NOT acceptable for primary training. They are okayed for instrument instruction, flight reviews, etc., when the left seat pilot already has at least a private license.
The FARs say "dual controls". I guess it depends on whether you think brakes are a "control".

 

[BobTurner]

I already checked for my CFI who was going to provide transition training in my Cherokee for fresh PPL (not me). They said he was not covered to act as CFI even though he was named on my policy at the time.

I think I see the issue. Since your policy undoubtably excludes commercial operations, like flight instructing for hire, your cfi friend cannot do that for the general public even though he is a named insured. You have to start at the other end: get Mr. PPL on your policy (or get a quote) and make sure your policy says that a cfi (any cfi) is also covered when giving instruction to a named insured (not just the owner). In fact that's how most policies are written, since the insurance companies write a lot of policies for co-owners, and they want to encourage the pilots to get instruction regularly.

Of course, the insurance company will be happy to sell you a commercial FBO policy, for a substantial sum of money.

 

[Raymo]

I think I see the issue. Since your policy undoubtably excludes commercial operations, like flight instructing for hire, your cfi friend cannot do that for the general public even though he is a named insured. You have to start at the other end: get Mr. PPL on your policy (or get a quote) and make sure your policy says that a cfi (any cfi) is also covered when giving instruction to a named insured (not just the owner). In fact that's how most policies are written, since the insurance companies write a lot of policies for co-owners, and they want to encourage the pilots to get instruction regularly.

Of course, the insurance company will be happy to sell you a commercial FBO policy, for a substantial sum of money.

Thanks, Bob. That makes sense. We'll figure something out to get Tom in the air and a PPL in his pocket.