turbo

turbo

Well Known Member
i was doing some reading and came along some interesting suggestions on TBO. i seems van has chosen well on the O-360 A1A as far as reliability. my first lyc made way over TBO which i am very happy for. treat your engine well, fly a lot and enjoy your fine flying machines.
img1232l.jpg
 
I saw an IO-360-A1B6 make it to just over 2400hrs, in a flight training environment. Continuous circuits and forced approach practice causes lots of heat stress, not easy on an engine.
 
>3000 hr engine

hitched a ride in the back seat of an older C-182 recently.

nice plane.

I asked the owner "how many hours on the engine"?

he replied "about 3200."

I said "no, I mean since the last overhaul"

he reiterated "about 3200 hrs"

keeps it in a hanger with the sump heater plugged in and takes real good care of it. I think he's done some maintenance and maybe repaired a cylinder along the way.

just goes to show that its how these things are taken care of that matters most.

Dave
 
Expected TBO Source?

Can you tell us the source of the photo that you posted? I would like to know what it says about some of the other engines.
 
0-360

I am at 2450 total time. I bought the engine out of a CAP aircraft when they pulled it for TBO. I filled it up with oil and turned it about once a month for a year and a half until I installed it into my plane. It burns about a quart of oil every 10 hours and does show any problems with the oil samples. I change oil at 40 to 50 hours. Compressions are good and even. I have had the slick mags reworked and will have them checked again at the 500 hour mark coming up. I dont know how long to run it but as long as it runs good I think I will keep on flying.

Jim Knight
Burlington Iowa
RV-6
 
Found on Web........

terrye said:
Can you tell us the source of the photo that you posted? I would like to know what it says about some of the other engines.
Click to expand...

Avco Lycoming

Note: 0-235 thru 10-540 Lycoming engines built between 1970 and
1981 may contain sintered-iron oil pump impellers. As a result, such
engines maybe subject to AD 81-18-04, which requires replacement of
iron impellers at 2,000 hours. If you have sintered iron oil pump gears
in your engine, no attempt should be made to "bust" TBO. Such gears
are a definite hazard and should be removed as soon as practicable.

0-235-C/E/H: Where solid-stem exhaust valves and bronze guide
are used, expect to achieve recommended TBO (2,000 hrs.) only with
difficulty. Solid-tappet engine requires frequent valve adjustments to
make TBO. Plain-steel jugs (not nitrided) give average wear. Chroming
not recommended (rings not available). Lead buildup can be
evere with high-lead fuels.

0-235-L2C: Nitrided cylinders and sodium valves give good longevity, but
solid tappets require careful valve maintenance, and use of
high-lead 100 "green" gas may shorten top-end life. (TCP will help,
though.) Chroming of cylinders not recommended, due to unavailability
of suitable rings.

0-320-A/C/E: Engines built before 1967 may have 7/16" exhaust
valves, in which case the recommended TBO of 1,200 hours should be
adhered to. Because these engines do not tolerate lead well, Lycoming
advises restricting use of "green" 100-octane gas to 25 percent of total
operating time or less. With TCP and use of 1 /2" valves, a 2,000-hour
TBO can be met or exceeded (except aerobic engines). Nitrided cylinders
not available for -A models.

0-320-B/D: High-compression versions of -A/C/E models which
tolerate lead better. However, high-time cylinder heads are apt to
develop small cracks. The jugs may either be chromed or nitrided and
thus wear good. First-run cylinders can easily exceeded the recommended
2,000 hours.

0-320-H: Unless the large-tappet, large-cam T' mods have been
done (indicated by a suffix 'T on the serial number), tappet spalling
may be encountered en route to TBO, even if Lycoming oil additive
LW-16702 is used. Because of this risk, it is advisable to adhere to
factory TBO (2,000 hours)-and convert to T' configuration as soon as
possible.

IO-320-C1A: These engines have $358 Inconel exhaust valves (to
accommodate turbocharging). With proper care, the 1,800-hr TBO can
be exceeded. (Nitrided jugs give good service life.)

0-360-E: Early versions of these engines incorporated same tappets
and camshafts as 0-320-H (see above). Same caution applies.

0-360-A/B/C/D: These are arguably Lycoming's finest engines (for
long, reliable service). With nitrided cylinders, and assuming all
bulletins/ADs are up to date, expect 2,600 hours TBO; 3,000 for first
run engines.

TO-360-C/F: Cooling problems caused by a relatively poor match of
turbocharger to engine gives these Lycomings a factory TBO of 1,400
hours-which is probably a good idea not to exceed.

IO-360-B/E/F: Members of the 180-hp 10-360 group have chromestemmed
sodium exhaust valves and nitrided cylinders, and a generally
stone-solid bottom end. These engines very often exceed the
recommended TBO of 2,000 hours.

IO-360-A/C/D/J: The 200-hp 10-360 family uses plain (not chrome stem)
sodium valves. A variety of crankcases can be found. Cases with
small main-bearing dowels should not be run past 1,200 hours
Engines with large dowels and old-style camshaft should not exceed
1,400 hours. Late-style engines (with latest cam) can go 1,800 hours or
more, but watch for crankcase cracks.

TIO-360-A: Different turbo, controller, and fuel metering system
from TO-360 series, but still not a good combo for long engine life.
Factory TBO of 1,200 hours should be respected.

AIO-360: Aerobatic engines in this group can go a maximum of
1200 hours between overhauls (or 1,400 if derated to 180-hp).
However, a less optimistic figure probably ought to be chosen if more than
occasional aerobatics are performed.

GO-435: Many owners claim they make it beyond the 1,2UU l BU.
This engine is particularly sensitive to operator technique.

GO-480: Engines modified i/a/w applicable bulletins (e.g.: S.I.
1182A on high-lift rockers and late-style cam) and incorporating
sodium-filled valves can exceed the 1,400-hr TBO.


Teledyne Continental

0-200-A: Recommended TBO is 1,800 hours. With close adherence
to bulletins and use of low-lead or unleaded fuels, TBOs much higher
should be routine. Basically a viceless engine whose potential is
limited only by exhaust-valve (and guide) life.

0-300: Average engine makes TBO (1,800 hrs.), but many are now
old and tired and can look forward to cracking problems, with both
heads and cases. Valve sticking can occur with high-lead fuels,
particularly as bronze guides wear out.

GO-300: Geared version of 0-300. Higher rpms lead to hotter
operation (definitely a drawbacks). Spur gear at front of case needs
attention after 1,200 hours. Crankcase cracks are possible.
TBO-busting not recommended.

E-185/225: Basically early 0-470s with parallel-valve heads and
three-ring pistons.These engines do poorly on high-lead fuels. But can
make the recommended 1,500 hours if 80-octane or unleaded autogas
is used. Not a good candidate for TBO-busting. Frequent exhaust
valve problems.

10-360 Engines made before 1976 should not be run past the
recommended TBO of 1,500, unless updated to latest configuration
(An improved crankcasebecameavailableinl976.Heaviercrankshaft
started in 1979. Numerous other changes have been made as well.)

1 0-360-KB: Continental says 2,000 hours. (The 'B' models have the
heavy crank.) Users agree.

TSIO-360-A/B/C: Factory TBO of 1,400 hours should probably be
raised to 1,600 or 1,800 (at least for fully updated models, with - B crank
and late case). Watch exhaust valves for necking, burning.

TSIO-360-E/F/G: These engines are hot-running (due to fixed
wastegated Rajay turbo) and hard on pistons. Watch for valve
burning, rocker bushing wear, and tach drive breakage.
Significant service bulletins affect turbo, mags, oil pump,
and crankshaft. Not a good candidate for TBO-busting.
(Factory says 1,800 hours. That should probably be revised downward.)

0-470. Exceptionally strong "bottom end." Low compression ratios
(and power output) translate to long engine life. Good candidates for
TBO-busting if low-lead fuels (and TCP) are used. Many operators
exceed 1,500-hrTBO. Watch for exhaust valve necking, burning, guide
wear.

10-470. With "heavy" cylinders, another good candidate tor exceeding
the factory's 1,500-hr TBO. Again, exhaust valves must be
watched closely.
 
I sure hope the 0-320?s hold up better than what this info says they will. Maybe the ones to avoid were the 7/16? exhaust valves during the years it lists.

Do you have a specific link or book title? I haven't found this info on the Lycoming sites I've been too, but certainly something I'd like to study some more.
 
wrongway john said:
I sure hope the 0-320?s hold up better than what this info says they will. Maybe the ones to avoid were the 7/16? exhaust valves during the years it lists.

Do you have a specific link or book title? I haven't found this info on the Lycoming sites I've been too, but certainly something I'd like to study some more.
Click to expand...

I'm still interested in the source of this information. I'm convinced it isn't from Lycoming or Continental.
 
I've seen this before.......

and IIRC, it might be from Mike Busch.

My memory ain't exacery what it formerly was, so don't shoot the messenger!:rolleyes:
 
TBO

Perhaps the most confusing thing about the 0 320's is the huge number of variants.(67???) The 0 360 variants are a lot simpler to understand.
If one looks at only the later model high compression 0 320's, this makes things a lot easier to understand. A case can be made that the 0 320 high compression engine with the 1/2" valves is even more bulletproof than the 0 360. The 0 360 is basically a 0 320 with a 1/2" longer crankshaft stroke. Some of the parts beefed up a bit, but many parts are the same between the two engines.
The weak part of both engines is the cam/lifter. If the engine sits for extended periods the cam will not have proper lubrication on start up. That is a large part of why the training and patrol airplanes that are used a lot last longer.
The Ney nozzles and the special Firewall Forward cam both address the cam lube issue.
An 0 320D or equivalent, nitride cylinders and 1/2" valves, can easily go to 3000 hours if flown frequently with frequent oil changes and good routime maintenence.
Lycoming has a publication that shows the basic differences in all Lyc piston engines.
Many of the oldest engines have crank flanges with lightening holes. The later engines have solid flanges, and some have heavier flanges. I prefer not to use a metal prop on the lightening hole crank, but this is just a personal preference. It would certainly be wise not to do aerobatics with a metal prop, light crank combination.
Lycoming went to the "wide deck" configuaration sometime in the late 60's. The wide deck engines are denoted by an A after the last two digits of the number stamped on the top of the crankcase near the rear, along the split in the case. A -27A would be one common number, this is usually a E series engine. Some E series engines have the good front main bearing. These engines support a constant speed prop and can be converted to the equivalent of a D series.
The only real negative for the narrow deck engines is that there are no new crankcases available. There seem to be plenty of used cases available for these engines.
 
liabilities after TBO?

What about increased liabilities when flying your plane after TBO, especially for something like flying Young Eagles?

If your engine should give up the ghost (which can really happen any time on any engine), and there's an "incident" or accident, isn't there an increased likelihood of exposure to claims that it was all the owner's fault for knowingly flying after TBO?

My Challenger's 503 Rotax has a TBO of 300 hours. I'm currently at about 425 and still flying it with no issues at all; starts easily, runs strong, good compression, no seal leakage. But when it hit 300, I quit flying Young Eagles, because I didn't want anyone claiming that any engine-out incident that might happen was due to my "carelessness" or "irresponsibility" for flying an engine past the manufacturer's recommended TBO.

Thoughts or experiences in this area?

brian
 
brian said:
What about increased liabilities when flying your plane after TBO, especially for something like flying Young Eagles?

If your engine should give up the ghost (which can really happen any time on any engine), and there's an "incident" or accident, isn't there an increased likelihood of exposure to claims that it was all the owner's fault for knowingly flying after TBO?

My Challenger's 503 Rotax has a TBO of 300 hours. I'm currently at about 425 and still flying it with no issues at all; starts easily, runs strong, good compression, no seal leakage. But when it hit 300, I quit flying Young Eagles, because I didn't want anyone claiming that any engine-out incident that might happen was due to my "carelessness" or "irresponsibility" for flying an engine past the manufacturer's recommended TBO.

Thoughts or experiences in this area?

brian
Click to expand...


Regardless of why the engine quit, you're probably gonna get sued if you hurt someone, particularly a stranger. Whether it is a 25 hour engine or 25,000 hour engine probably doesn't matter.

You can twist yourself into a pretzel worrying about these things. Flying has risk and that includes the potential of getting sued. If that's a big concern, maybe you should ease the mental burden on yourself and cut out passenger rides.

Personally, I don't fly passengers who I think would be inclined to sue me (same for their family). As long as I don't do anyting stupid, I think my risk is relativelly low.
 
img1281n.jpg

this book comes in a series. if you want any info on another engine let me know. it lists lycs and conts.

the 1/2 " sodium filled valves are better. the sodium turns to liquid at a certain temperature and removes heat. nice thing to have.

my experience was the cam/lifter started making metal after 3,150 hobbs hours. my new engine has roller lifters. we will see next time around how things go.
 
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