[rjcthree]

My panel plan is coming together nicely - at least the expensive bits for sure. Any thoughts you may have are welcome, and I'd like to hear any known conflicts.

Mission is day/night VFR; in time, the ability (through training) to punch up though or, if I get caught, get out of it - call it IFR light - and I know there will be objections to that, but that's not the point of my request (please!).

Dynon D180(purchased)
Garmin 327 transponder
Garmin SL40 comm (backup is a nav/com handheld)
Garmin 396 or 496 GPS in a panel mount (handheld backup)
TT Pilot single-axis (shows roll and 'pitch')
ASI - Vans/UMA(purchsed)
Alt - Vans/UMA
Steam engine guages - oil pressure, oil temp, tach.
Vertical card compass

It's only money, I guess.

Sooooo, the primary failure modes I'm protected against are total electrical failure and microprocessor freakout. Not protected against pitot static freezeup - but can anybody document a static freezeup?

Mr. Stein, want to build me somethin'?

Thoughts? Thanks! Rick 90432 closing the wings before moving to fuse.

 

[pierre smith]

Rick...

......I'd ditch the engine gauges and tach, maybe put a glovebox there. The D-180 is a pretty trusty unit. Besides, once you learn your engine, chances that it's gonna lose oil pressure instantly or heat up instantly are slim to none.

Since you mentioned night and possibly light IFR, you may need to consider an electric horizon indicator for backup.

Regards,

 

[bjustus]

Sounds like a good panel. The 327 txpr is excellent and you can't beat the 396/496 w/weather.

Here are a few points I would bring up:

1. I don't like the SL40. If you're getting a stand-alone com I would get an Icom 200/210 or KY97. The built in intercom in the SL has a very clumsy interface and it's very hard to keep the volume/squelch right. Very irritating in my experience. So if you're getting the SL because of built in intercom, reconsider, and if you must have the SL I recommend a seperate intercom.

2. You'll need at least a VOR to file IFR. The VAL INS 422 is a very economic option that gives you ILS/VOR/LOC/MB. Or you could get the SL30 and feed your PFD/HSI with it. By the time you start considering an SL30, you're almost to the cost of a used Garmin 430 and 106 (or equivalent) indicator which gives you exponentially more capability because then you can shoot all the GPS approaches and the ILS approaches that say "ADF required" and "DME required" because the GNS 430 can substitute for DME/ADF.

My panel plan is coming together nicely - at least the expensive bits for sure. Any thoughts you may have are welcome, and I'd like to hear any known conflicts.

Mission is day/night VFR; in time, the ability (through training) to punch up though or, if I get caught, get out of it - call it IFR light - and I know there will be objections to that, but that's not the point of my request (please!).

Dynon D180(purchased)
Garmin 327 transponder
Garmin SL40 comm (backup is a nav/com handheld)
Garmin 396 or 496 GPS in a panel mount (handheld backup)
TT Pilot single-axis (shows roll and 'pitch')
ASI - Vans/UMA(purchsed)
Alt - Vans/UMA
Steam engine guages - oil pressure, oil temp, tach.
Vertical card compass

It's only money, I guess.

Sooooo, the primary failure modes I'm protected against are total electrical failure and microprocessor freakout. Not protected against pitot static freezeup - but can anybody document a static freezeup?

Mr. Stein, want to build me somethin'?

Thoughts? Thanks! Rick 90432 closing the wings before moving to fuse.

 

[Sid Lambert]

I'm planning a panel for the same situations.

I would say don't worry with redundant engine instruments.

D180
SL-30
TruTrak ADI II
496
Compass
Maybe an analog altimeter not hooked to the same static as the D180.

The way I see a panel like this is you have 2 backups, the ADI is self sustaining and the 496 can be used to get you out of an emergency.

Happy building

 

[bjustus]

I would respectfully disagree with the electric horizon backup for light IFR. The autopilot provides a backup with its own solid state gyros.

The electric AI is very expensive and will get banged around and suffer reduced service life if you do any aerobatics.

I agree about ditching the engine gauges. You're having a pretty bad day if you lose your D180 or all electric and then your engine starts acting up too. If you lose the primary indications or electrical you're already going to be aborting the flight and diverting anyway.

......I'd ditch the engine gauges and tach, maybe put a glovebox there. The D-180 is a pretty trusty unit. Besides, once you learn your engine, chances that it's gonna lose oil pressure instantly or heat up instantly are slim to none.

Since you mentioned night and possibly light IFR, you may need to consider an electric horizon indicator for backup.

Regards,

 

[bjustus]

Here's another possible option for altitude backup Aircraft Spruce is selling . These run off a AAA battery that lasts for months and it beeps at you for several days before the battery goes dead. You can get them with static input and without.

http://www.microtim.com/

I'm planning a panel for the same situations.


Maybe an analog altimeter not hooked to the same static as the D180.


Happy building

 

[johnp]

Not protected against pitot static freezeup - but can anybody document a static freezeup?

i can. about 15 years ago -- ifr from texarkana to fort worth, in clouds at 8000, piper turbo-arrow iv. instruction was cross blue ridge vor at 6000. clicked off the altitude hold, a turn or so of nose down trim. when the altimeter said 6000, i clicked the altitude hold back on and adjusted trim. but the airspeed still said ~170 kts indicated. i'm thinkin "no way can this plane do 170 kts level" -- thought about it a few more seconds, and concluded that the static was iced over. since the piper had the static on the pitot blade, i reasoned that the pitot heat might be effective for static ice, so i turned it on. coupla seconds later, the altimeter needle (which had been rock steady at 6000) fluctuated a few times, then dropped precipitously to ~5000. immediately got a call from atc "verify level at 6", replied "climbing back to 6000 -- equipment malfunction."

that's when i learned to always turn the pitot heat on when entering visible moisture.

 

[mscheuer]

Your Intercom

Just thought I'd chime in (can't seem to help myself from providing technical information on intercoms....it's what we do!)

The new version of our PM3000(A) has a couple of new capabilities that might suite you well. With your equipment, you have several aurual annunciations. Up until the new PM3000A, intercoms did not have unswitched inputs. The PM3000A has two (2).

www.ps-engineering.com/pm3000.shtml

Second, electrical noise from entertainment devices. We have eliminated the potential of ground loop noise because the music input now is differential. What this means is that the music input jack is no longer referenced to ground. Thus, it is impossible to have ground loop noise, the most common noise in an aircraft audio system.

Finally, our VOX and audio fidelity has been recognized as possibly the best in the industry.

Please let me know if I can provide any additional technical information.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.

 

[Mike S]

My panel plan is coming together nicely - at least the expensive bits for sure. Any thoughts you may have are welcome, and I'd like to hear any known conflicts.

When I started to up-grade the panel in my plane-----purchased 90%done----I called the manufacture, GRT, of the existing EFIS, and told them what I wanted to do, and got a recommendation for equipment that their units would work well with.

And then, just to confirm things, I called the folks making the recommended stuff, and asked how well their stuff would do with GRT.

Hearing the same story from both companies made me a lot more confidant in going ahead with my plans.

In general, I prefer to talk to a manufacturer, and ask them questions about the products, than just relying on reading sales literature.

 

[frankh]

What he said!

I would respectfully disagree with the electric horizon backup for light IFR. The autopilot provides a backup with its own solid state gyros.

The electric AI is very expensive and will get banged around and suffer reduced service life if you do any aerobatics.

I agree about ditching the engine gauges. You're having a pretty bad day if you lose your D180 or all electric and then your engine starts acting up too. If you lose the primary indications or electrical you're already going to be aborting the flight and diverting anyway.

Is this really a light IFR airplane or VFR with the ability to keep the wings level while you declare an emergency?

Reason I ask is because,

1) You can't get your instrument rating with these instruments...Thus there will be a cost to rent another airplane.

2) Keeping current for IFR is a BIG DEAL....And you won't ba able to do that either with this airplane...Min legal currency (namely it woefully inadequate) is 6 approaches in 6 months. I do three per month to feel reasonably compentent.

Seems to me you really need to decide as a pilot whether yur going IFR or are you going to remain a VFR jock. There is no right answer but there really arn't any half measures either.

Frank
7a IFR

 

[rjcthree]

Hmmm

Some great things to think about here.

Frank, to your point, wings level in an emergency is about right. I enjoyed the heads-down portion of my PPL training, and my CFI had some definite opinions on suitable equipment for even a VFR 'go someplace' airplane. Those are pretty deeply etched into my brain(as only a guy who taught you how to spin a Traumahawk can do), and you see them reflected here.

To some other comments:

I am not considering the SL40 for the intercom, but dual-watch has some interest. If I bag that, it will be an Icom 210. The -327 over the -320 is about not needing a converter for the D180. Same/same, less boxes, fewer connections. Separate intercom will be installed, but gee, they are pricey, IMO, aren't they?

The VAL instrument is very interesting, but like Frank said, the panel described is a long way from REAL IFR adequacy - so at best, I'll leave the space.

Mike's point about talking to the MFG's is on - already started that indirectly, the more research I do, the more I find what I'm asking has been answered.

As far as backup engine instruments go, if you told me I could only have one - I'd go with oil pressure. But a westach 4-in-1 is pretty attractive, and the UMA minis are too. I'm an engine guy, so the lure is emotional, not fact or real need based.

My AP choice is TT - if I had to make the choice now, it would be the pilot 1, later upgrading to pilot 2. P2 has the roll and pseudo-pitch electric gyro as part of the package. And I'm not acro. At least not this one.

Thanks everyone! Rick 90432

 

[N941WR]

A couple of things...

Your transponder choice is very nice but since you are building a VFR ship, why not save some cash and go with the 320? Just a thought. 95% of my flights are VFR and thus I hardly ever change it from 1200.

The Dynon unit needs a place to feed its audio warnings to. This led me to the iCom radio, which I'm very happy with. The iCom has three mono inputs, which came in very handy.

You don't don't have an intercom listed in there, did I miss something? My selection was to go with the Sigtronics 200S and I've been VERY happy with it.

Check out this picture to see how I connected all that good stuff:


As for the compass, I bought one but never installed it. Between the Dynon and the Garmin 496, I figured I would never use it.

Good luck with your panel, designing mine was a blast!