T

tvlawyer

Active Member
As I start my window shopping for tools, I wondered whether I could use two of the $60 rotating engine stands they have a Harbor Freight to hold up my QB fuselage and flip it over when neccessary. The engine stands have four stubs on a rotating bracket. How might these fit against a fuselage?
 
Works

I've seen a couple of website with people using auto engine stands for a fuse rotating stand. Cheap enough and easily adaptable. Go for it...
 
tvlawyer said:
As I start my window shopping for tools, I wondered whether I could use two of the $60 rotating engine stands they have a Harbor Freight to hold up my QB fuselage and flip it over when neccessary. The engine stands have four stubs on a rotating bracket. How might these fit against a fuselage?
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You may need to get some angle iron to make the stubs attach at the engine mt. points but it should work pretty good. I've seen others do the same. The tail may be a little more challenging if you're trying to rotate around a consistent axis. I'm at the stage now where being able to tip the canoe back upside down sometimes sure would be nice for all the interior and systems work--since I'm not putting the aft top skins on for a while I can do so and just put it on the sawhorses but it does require an extra person or two. Good luck.
 
Incline

Hi Larry,
I built basically the same "rotisserie" for a friends MG he was restoring.........great move. The only fly in the ointment might be the slight inclined angle of the rotating shaft. It's easily fixed by lifting the rear set of casters so that the two stands' shafts are more or less parallel to each other and more or less the same height so as you rotate the fuse they won't bind. You'll enjoy being able to stand up with it on it's side or not having to crawl under it either.
 
Works Okay...

I did exactly as you are thinking, when I was working on my fuse. I would say, it worked okay. Honestly, it was handier just to have the casters (at times) than to use the rotating feature. It is not easy to mount in the aft end so that it will rotate nicely. What I found was where it hung nicely, and worked well with the stand, it had a very low center of gravity in the rear. Thus, when you rotated it, the weight was WAY off to one side. I could get about 25 to 30 degrees of rotation, then it was starting to get to where it was very unstable, and could fall over. The firewall was very easy to mount, but I found that the stand upright was not quite tall enough to allow clearance for the fuse to rotate with out hitting the base horizontal legs of the stand. The other problem with them is the lack of locking casters. When working alone, and trying to buck a rivet that is not the easiest to get to (which in my experience was about 75% of them) as I would get into postion to rivet, I would be leaning slightly on the fuse, and it would start to roll away from me.
If I was to do it over, I would use a stand on the firewall, and make some sort of adjustable padded stand for the tail, rotate it and set it on the stand at whatever height it required. And I would put locking casters on the stand.
Oh, one more thing. Most of the engine stands (especially the cheap ones like I used) use a pin and alignment hole for indexing the engine (fuselage) The problem is that it is never in the position you want it, it is either too much, or not enough angle. Plus, they are not a very well toleranced hole so there is alot of slop. A solution to this would be to weld a nut over the hole and use a bolt as a set screw for indexing, then you would have infinite adjustability. And make sure you use the stand with four casters and spread front wheels for stability. I used one on the firewall, and used a three wheeled one on the tail. All the time wishing I had spend the extra $15 and got both with 4 casters.
My honest opinion is that it does work, but it is not the best solution.
 
On one of the builders sites they used an engine stand with angle iron on the firewall and a plywood "firewall" for the tail section with a threaded pipe stanchion bolted to this firewall in the center of rotation. They used I believe a 2" pipe screwed into the stanchion and just let it roll on a stand (sawhorse built to the correct height). The end of the pipe could be loosely clamped with a U bolt so it would rotate in a fixed position. I can't locate the site right now, but I'll keep looking. It probably wouldn't be hard to make an easily removable clamp in the floor to lock down the engine stand if it was necessary to move the fuselage and keep it from moving while working. Obviously on the tailstand you would want to put locking castors on it.
 
fuselage stands

The picture below shows the stands I constructed. They are made of rectangular steel tubing welded together. The attach points on the fuselage are made of angle alluminum. I used a piece of 1 1/2 galvanized pipe as the pivot piece that is attached to the fuselage bracket on the front stand. That pipe slides into another piece of 1 1/2 pipe attached to the stand. The pipe on the stand was split length wise about half way down the side and half way around the circumference of the pipe at the end of the split to allow it to spread around the inserted pipe. I then have a nut welded on each side of the split pipe that allows me to squeeze it closed by threading a carriage bolt in the nut that tightens the outside pipe around the inserted pipe. The pivot point on the rear stand has a bolt run through the stand and the tailcone bracket. The fuselage can pivot to any position. Once it is where I want it I turn the bolt on the front stand down to hold the fuselage in place. Now no matter what I need to do I can stand upright with the work at the perfect height to do whatever I need without bending over, crawling on my knees, working above my head or standing on my head.

I am not sure how much a couple of engine mount stands cost. the materials for this project ran around $100 or so. Of course it had to be designed, fabricated, welded together and then painted (I used the cheapest rattle can paint from Ace hardware I could find). All told I think I may have about $125 and a friend's and my labor in it.
 
Steve,
Would you have a picture of the aft attach on your fuselage you could post? That really looks like a nice rig you put together.
 
Rockyjs said:
Steve,
Would you have a picture of the aft attach on your fuselage you could post? That really looks like a nice rig you put together.
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I do not have any other current pictures other than the one posted earlier and the one below. I will try to take some more over the weekend. I will post them as soon as I can get them uploaded to a computer.

As for the stands, they work fantastically. However, I must say I cannot claim credit for the general design. I have seen pictures from other builders with similar stands and thought I should be able to build one also. In fact, I noticed that the RV7 on display at the Garmin booth at Oshkosh this year had a very similar designed set of stands. Perhaps similar minds think alike. Who knows. At any rate, it is a very functional design that works very well.

I have to also credit the fact that I have a wonderful friend who works as a machinist. I hold his skills in very high regard. Whenever possible I find myself asking for his assistance as I know that his wisdom on such matters will always exceed my own. He is a most generous friend who has been more than willing to share his knowledge. I owe a lot of the design of the attach points to him.

The way I figured it, if I can build an airplane I should be able to build a couple of metal stands. It was not too complicated. Anyone who can weld should be able to build them fairly easily.
 
RVbySDI said:
The picture below shows the stands I constructed. They are made of rectangular steel tubing welded together. The attach points on the fuselage are made of angle alluminum. I used a piece of 1 1/2 galvanized pipe as the pivot piece that is attached to the fuselage bracket on the front stand. That pipe slides into another piece of 1 1/2 pipe attached to the stand. The pipe on the stand was split length wise about half way down the side and half way around the circumference of the pipe at the end of the split to allow it to spread around the inserted pipe. I then have a nut welded on each side of the split pipe that allows me to squeeze it closed by threading a carriage bolt in the nut that tightens the outside pipe around the inserted pipe. The pivot point on the rear stand has a bolt run through the stand and the tailcone bracket. The fuselage can pivot to any position. Once it is where I want it I turn the bolt on the front stand down to hold the fuselage in place. Now no matter what I need to do I can stand upright with the work at the perfect height to do whatever I need without bending over, crawling on my knees, working above my head or standing on my head.

I am not sure how much a couple of engine mount stands cost. the materials for this project ran around $100 or so. Of course it had to be designed, fabricated, welded together and then painted (I used the cheapest rattle can paint from Ace hardware I could find). All told I think I may have about $125 and a friend's and my labor in it.
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Steve is right on this... 100.00 to 125.00 bucks and a couple of hours and you can have one built. It's really a no brainer, and you can say I built it! :D
 
Steve,

The stand you saw in the Garmin booth is one of mine. Scott purchased it from me. I have been making them for a few years now. I have sold many of them and yes they are compact, very sturdy and do a great job in assisting on construction of the Fuselage. I have redesigned them slightly and they are easy to break down for shipping. This way its easy for me to ship them out and if the owner decides to sell it and needs to ship it to the next guy. I also make the adapters to hang the wings on them.

-Jeff

Jeffs Fuselage Stands

Parts you will receive
 
RV_7A said:
Steve,

The stand you saw in the Garmin booth is one of mine. Scott purchased it from me. I have been making them for a few years now. I have sold many of them and yes they are compact, very sturdy and do a great job in assisting on construction of the Fuselage. I have redesigned them slightly and they are easy to break down for shipping. This way its easy for me to ship them out and if the owner decides to sell it and needs to ship it to the next guy. I also make the adapters to hang the wings on them.
Click to expand...
Jeff, my apologies for using what appears to be your design to build my stand. I was not aware that I was copying a marketed product. My intent was to build my own stand so that I wasn't continually sliding my fuselage across my workbench and having to figure out how to get to the areas I needed to work without contorting myself in awkward positions. I happened to see pictures of this stand and thought it was a well designed one so I patterned mine from those pictures. My congratulations for a well designed product. I hope there is no problems with my posts on this thread concerning others building their own stand. My thoughts on building these stands for myself were that if I could build my own airplane I surely could build my own stands.

If there is any problems with my posts I would ask that Doug remove any of them from this thread. My intentions were not meant to cause problems with anyone who may be wishing to sell their products.
 
RVbySDI said:
Jeff, my apologies for using what appears to be your design to build my stand. I was not aware that I was copying a marketed product. My intent was to build my own stand so that I wasn't continually sliding my fuselage across my workbench and having to figure out how to get to the areas I needed to work without contorting myself in awkward positions. I happened to see pictures of this stand and thought it was a well designed one so I patterned mine from those pictures. My congratulations for a well designed product. I hope there is no problems with my posts on this thread concerning others building their own stand. My thoughts on building these stands for myself were that if I could build my own airplane I surely could build my own stands.

If there is any problems with my posts I would ask that Doug remove any of them from this thread. My intentions were not meant to cause problems with anyone who may be wishing to sell their products.
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Steve,

This is a Forum, to discuss ideas and thoughts. The rotating fuse stand has been around for a very long time. People have made them out of wood, steel, aluminum and other materials. Some even have wheels, locking mechanisms etc... and then some don't. It's a simple idea and with whatever material or design you choose they can be build for very little to almost nothing cost wise.

This said, there is nothing wrong with your post. Afterall, thats what this Forum is all about. :D
 
Steve- Absolutley no harm done. Hey if you have the time, materials and tools and a welder... all the more power to you. They say a imitation is the highest form of flattery and your comments certainly came across that way. But for those who would rather be building is why I offer what I do.

Hey Darrell do you have a stand? If not I can offer you one for $439 shipped. ;)

-Jeff
 
RV_7A said:
Steve- Absolutley no harm done. Hey if you have the time, materials and tools and a welder... all the more power to you. They say a imitation is the highest form of flattery and your comments certainly came across that way. But for those who would rather be building is why I offer what I do.

Hey Darrell do you have a stand? If not I can offer you one for $439 shipped. ;)

-Jeff
Click to expand...


Yes I have one... :D It cost me $95.00 and a lunch...
 
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Two Engine Stands

Larry -

I used two HF engine stands for my fuselage. I took the adjustable stand-offs off the mounting plates and threw them in a corner for possible later use. Here's the firewall end...
firewallcrossboardsmallxn2.jpg


As someone already mentioned, the tube that makes the unit rotatable is welded at an angle. I bolted the forward castor mount upside-down to get it closer to level. I drilled several #10 holes in the tube for a variety of working positions, and just drop an AN3 bolt in the appropriate hole pair to hold the desired position. The carpet wrapped around the bottom keeps it from sliding around, and keeps the concrete from taking the paint off.

Here's how I handled the aft end.
tailmountedsmallhl2.jpg

A chunk of 1/2-inch galvanized pipe with a wrap of duct tape fits nicely in the tailspring mount. The pipe stub is stuck through a hole in a scrap of 2x6 bolted to the stand. The prescription bottle is simply a spacer to keep the skin flanges from snagging the bolts that mount 2x6 to the stand. A 1/2" PVC coupler screwed onto the threads of the pipe keeps it from pulling out of the board.

It works well. Being able to rotate the whole assembly to a comfortable position for the task at hand is a huge help to me (I'm shorter than most).

One word of caution. I have no doubt that the assembly will take the load, but I won't climb in the fuselage without putting blocks under the spar box for stability.
 
RVbySDI said:
...They are made of rectangular steel tubing welded together...
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Must be nice to know how to weld. Really expands the envelope of what you can fabricate on your own.

I'm trying to find a continuing-ed class at a community college or something similar where I can take some lessons. So far all I've been able to find are "welding for art" classes and full-blown trade school courses (many thousands of dollars).

Brad
 
Learn to weld

Brad,
For next to nothing, you can rent a cheapo 110 volt welder at one of those rental places and buy some rods, ask friends and neighbors if they know how to weld and....voila!!....weekend welder. Trust me, it ain't rocket science and you can teach yourself with a book in a day. The welds may not be pretty but that isn't what its about........as long as they hold. Practice on some scrap, put it in a vise and beat the cr** out of it (destructive testing) to see how strong it is/isn't. :D
 
welding

for this area of expertise i would rent/buy some videos as you may very well get better instruction on thorough fusion , hot welds. cold weld spatter and such.
if you just want to build simple stuff like said earlier it aint rocket science. especially if you can make all youir welds horizontaly. (rotate the part). it really is a piece of cake. but if you want to make it easier get a mig rig and learn the basics. probally on the video that comes with the welder anywhoo.
Jeffs stands are nice and if you are not gonna keep using the welder then a deal IMHO..now if your gonna build tube and fabric i say get the specialized training. 99.9 % of ideas aint inventions :rolleyes:
 
pierre smith said:
Brad,
For next to nothing, you can rent a cheapo 110 volt welder at one of those rental places and buy some rods, ask friends and neighbors if they know how to weld and....voila!!....weekend welder.
Click to expand...
I'd do that, except I live in an apartment on the 17th floor. Not to easy to practice welding around here ;)

Maybe one day if/when I move out of the city.

Brad
 
Rotissiere

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7913/scan0002wk3.jpg
The cheap engine stand fuselage rotissiere setup is working great for me. As you can see in the photos (I hope) the engine stand third leg has been removed. This eliminates the problem of the angle as posted previously. It also works well when moving the fuselage around. I pick up the tail and move it around like a wheel barrow. The rear support is a simple wooden frame with a section of fire hose as a sling. I borrowed this set up from an RV8 builer buddy. I just made new brackets out of 1" square tubing to adapt to the RV7. The wheels are not swiveling (caster type) so it is actually very stable side to side and the rear support keeps it pretty stable forward/aft. I set the height so it barely clears the ground when rotated 360. Not sure of cost cause I didn't build it, nor would l know where to get fire hose. But $60.00 for an engine stand, some scrap wood and a piece of fire hose sounds about right. Jim Kirks RV7A fuselage
 
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Air UPSer said:
Must be nice to know how to weld. Really expands the envelope of what you can fabricate on your own.
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By no means would I call myself a welder. I have welded very little of anything but this particular project is easy to weld. The rectangular tubing was easy. Since my life is not riding on whether I have a good weld or not with this project I felt I could handle the welding. As someone else mentioned it is not rocket science. As long as you are not concerned about the appearance of your weld flip the hood down, stick that electrode to a piece of metal and go for it.
 
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