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niblettda

Well Known Member
I'm at the stage that I need to figure out what I plan to do with my engine and order the finish kit. I'm very confused about my induction options and what I need to do to get the desired end result.

I'm using a IO-320-B1A, I know I have to change the induction from rear to something else, I knew that all along. My intention is to use the Superior cold air horizontal induction and cleared with Larry Vetterman that his cross over exhaust will work (since it's what he flies).

Van's on the other hand seems to think I'm a bit nuts not to run a vertical induction.

My end goal is that I don't want the "snorkel" on the cowl, but I don't want to make a ton of extra work. Can I do vertical induction without the snorkel? I don't mind using the vertical and that means I just have to replace the pan with any old standard pan out there, just seemed like the horizontal would make life easier and get a few extra HP as part of the change.

I know very little about how the induction system works on Lycoming engines so any help would be appreciated.
 
Hey David,

I am not sure I can answer your question myself, but I might help you avoid a VERY confusing thread. Traditionally, there are two ways to get intake air into a Van's cowl - the "Snout" (the thing that sticks forward on the bottom cowl), and the "Snorkel" (an internal duct that gets air from the left cooling air inlet to the inlet of the forward-facing induction system). The "Snorkel" leaves a smooth lower cowl. I THINK that you are saying that you want to use the "snorkel" cowl, not one with a "snout" - is that correct?

Paul
 
Sump prices are quite different

My IO360B1E (rear facing induction) was fitted with a Superior Cold Air Induction forward facing sump. Nice sump, but figure on $1200 or more.
You can find a suitable vertical induction sump for maybe $500 more or less.
You can also determine if your sump is capable of being modified to switch the rear facing to forward facing. Something tells me its not, but check that out. I like the no-snout look myself and fitting a snorkel inlet system from the left cowl intake is very common. Test yourself why you do or do not want a snout under the cowl. Vertical induction with a snout is also quite common and very nice looking too. You can see it's a personal choice. :)
 
Ironflight said:
Hey David,

I am not sure I can answer your question myself, but I might help you avoid a VERY confusing thread. Traditionally, there are two ways to get intake air into a Van's cowl - the "Snout" (the thing that sticks forward on the bottom cowl), and the "Snorkel" (an internal duct that gets air from the left cooling air inlet to the inlet of the forward-facing induction system). The "Snorkel" leaves a smooth lower cowl. I THINK that you are saying that you want to use the "snorkel" cowl, not one with a "snout" - is that correct?

Paul
Click to expand...

I think the common nomenclature at Vans is that the standard RV cowl has an induction scoop for a vertical induction engine.
As Paul wrote, the snorkel (by Van's nomenclature) is the duct that brings induction air from above (like a snorkel does when used in the water) so then a cowl with no induction scoop is used. It sounds like this is what you want. Just be aware that Van's snorkel is designed to by used with a lycoming fwd induction sump. I do not know what modifications or extra work you will have to endure if you decide to use it with a Superior sump.
 
Ironflight said:
I THINK that you are saying that you want to use the "snorkel" cowl, not one with a "snout" - is that correct?
Click to expand...

And this is why I post here! Yes Paul you are very correct. I don't want the thing that bulges out of the bottom cowl that looks like it was a complete afterthought on such a nice plane. I thought that was the snorkel.

So I'm understanding from your thread that I can have vertical induction without the external "snout"?

That would be great, it would save on the cost of the pan for sure.
 
niblettda said:
.....So I'm understanding from your thread that I can have vertical induction without the external "snout"?.....
Click to expand...

If you have a vertical induction sump you will have this cowl. although I suppose you could figure out a way to add a snorkel to the left inlet. This is a pic of the "snout" cowl. Induction air is from the snout on the bottom
aviation09063.jpg


If you want the smooth bottom cowl from Vans, you need to go with horizontal induction sump. Here is a pic of the "snorkel" cowl. Induction air is taken from the left cowl inlet.
Picture194.jpg
 
Bottom line is, the vertical induction sticks down into the "snout". If you want to use vertical induction without the snout, you will still have to build at least some kind of "bulge" into the lower cowl.
 
That's exactly what I was meaning, Mel. So yes I would prefer to do the horizontal induction so that I don't have any bulge on the underside of the cowl.

Does anyone have a couple of pics of an install with a horizontal induction setup for their engine and how it's plumbed? What do you end up having to do to make the exhaust work?

Will the James cowl work better than the Van's version?
 
Here's a pic of my James cowl. I have a IO-360, AFP injection w/Superior cold sump & vetterman 4 pipe exhaust

RV-7build377.jpg


No it is not easier or better, just different. And a lot of work, I stil don't know which air cleaner I'm using.

If you want the look of the smooth bottomed cowl, the easiest is to go with a Lycoming horizontal sump and buy the Vans install kit for the snorkel. The sump is probably cheaper than the Superior, too.
 
Some Lancair builders have machined the stock IO-320B1A sump to mount the FI servo on the front(block off the rear entry). Bart Lalonde at Aerosport Power might be able to do this (or any good machinist). This would be the lowest cost option for a forward facing intake. It would not make as much HP as a 200HP style sump due to the difference in tuned intake runners.
Some mods might be need to make the stock Van's snorkle and throttle linkage work.
Don't forget you will need to order a "Type 2" Dynafocal engine mount from Van's.

Stan Blanton
Slow build RV-6
 
Engine code and induction...

Is there anyway to tell from the Lycoming model number what kind of induction it has? This would be of use when looking for a used engine. Do all IO320-B1A's have rear facing induction?
 
INDUCTION

Most IO 320B and C series engines come from Twin Commanches. All Twin Commanches were rear mount induction. Converting sumps from rear mount to front mount in most cases involves cutting a hole in the bottom of the sump, welding a connector tube to the front, and then welding a plug into the hole. Not all vertical mount sumps can be converted to fuel injection. The older model sumps with a vertical oil screen cannot be converted to FI. These sumps can be identified by a large hex plug on the bottom. The carb mounting on these sumps is on the bottom but toward the rear.
Another option for conversion is the elbow available from Airflow Performance. While this is not quite as aerodynamically clean as the forward sump, it is probably the least expensive option. Depending on the exact configuration of exhaust, the crossover pipes can be run above the fuel servo/induction tube. These elbows were used on some Lancair 360's. The elbow bolts to the bottom of the sump and the fuel servo bolts to the front of the elbow.
 
Brian, did you go with the Lycoming horizontal induction sump? I'm ok with the Vetterman's ram air scoop, it's just trying to avoid that big snout that I see on some -9's. Also, does anyone have the Lycoming part number for a forward facing horizontal induction pan?

Thanks to all for the great information, I'll take any more pictures and ideas you all have.
 
David, I have a Superior forward facing cold sump. The cowl is a James aircraft extended version. Vetterman made my 4 pipe exhaust, he doesn't supply ram-air scoops. Send me a PM if you want more pictures or info

I visited your website, and saw you wanted a project while your wife wants to be flying. I will say if you want more work, more shoptime and less flying, then all these mods add up quickly. If your goal is to get flying sooner than later, stick as close to the plans as possible. I've spent 2x the time on the plenum/baffles and cowl than I predicted. Things as simple as the throttle/mixture cable mounting brackets will need to be fab'd, as the factory ones will not work with my set-up.

So just be forwarned: Deviation is a path less traveled and may require a little bushwacking to get to your destination.
 
IO-320B1A

Gents;

For the new guy.... If I want the simplest and most like the plans call for solution for making a IO-320B1A work in a RV-6A what should I do. I am OK with the cowling scoop under the engine cowl.

How hard is it to get the air into this induction?
 
sump

I have never been directly involved in one of these sump conversions, but do know it is a bit more than machining. In most cases there will be an unmachined pad on the front, but it is not connected to anything. The conversions cut a hole in the bottom of the sump, weld a front connector tube in place, and then weld the hole in the bottom.
A standard bottom mount sump withe the Airflow Performance adapter is another way to achieve similar results. I have seen this on a Lancair 360 and it works really well. Exhaust crossover pipes go above the induction system.
 
IO-320 with Snorkel

I went through this as well, although I don't have my engine yet. I disliked the look of the "snout" for the vertical induction, then I saw a picture of Paul Lilly's RV-9A with an IO-320 on this website with no snout and decided on that configuration for mine.

I believe there are three possible sumps for a forward facing injection servo (not counting Lycoming, but don't think they make one):
1. The Superior cold air sump.
2. The Airmotive Engineering cold air sump http://www.aecorp.aero/
3. The Aerosport Power sump (custom casting for IO-320 with induction tubes)

I believe the first two of these are made for the IO-360. The problem seems to be that although the sump bolt pattern is the same between the IO-320 and the IO-360, and the sump will bolt on, the intake pipes are not the same. The IO-360 pipes will not fit the IO-320 and there are no IO-320 pipes made (except maybe by Lycoming for the Twin Commanche) so you need to check this.

For my RV-9A I ordered an RV-7(A) cowl for an IO-360 and a standard Van's snorkel and filter. These are still in the box so I can't tell you if it's all going to fit, but since it has been done before I think it will.

I originally wanted a cold air sump with the intake spyder separate from the sump and heated oil (maximum efficiency!) but am now leaning toward the Aerosport Power sump which I believe has the spyder inside the sump.

Finally, as you know, the Vetterman exhaust system has to clear whatever sump you choose.
 
but Brian...correct me if I am wrong but you have a horizontal induction sump and the reason for snout in your cowl is for the Bower Ram air adapter....correct? your setup maybe a little different due to the Ram air.
 
IO-320-B1A for RV-6A

Gents;

I have no problem with the nose snout, I am more concerned about the sump and intake hoses fitting. Vertical induction is fine with me.

My 2 cents.

Rich
 
rulmen said:
Gents;

I have no problem with the nose snout, I am more concerned about the sump and intake hoses fitting. Vertical induction is fine with me.

My 2 cents.

Rich
Click to expand...

I have a used sump and induction tubes from an O-320-D model that has the forward positioned carb location, OK for a carb. on a -A model.

This might do the job if you are going for an aftermarket FI conversion in the updraft carb. location...
 
B-1A

Gil;

GREAT!! I wanted to reuse the RSA injection body. I wonder if it would bolt on to it. What size pipes? 1 1/2 or 1/34?

I bet that would work. Thoughts?

How much for the stuff?

You can PM me if you'd like.

Thanks;

Rich
 
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